Justifiable killings rise in Virginia and the nation...

spin

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:15 AM
Original message

Justifiable killings rise in Virginia and the nation...

Justifiable killings rise in Virginia and the nation
Published: May 29, 2011

The number of justifiable killings committed by police and private citizens has been trending upward over the past decade, rising in 2009 to their highest levels in more than a dozen years in both Virginia and the nation.

***snip***

Changes in self-defense laws in numerous states have made it more permissible to use deadly force in defense of oneself and others, crime and law-enforcement analysts say. And increasingly permissive gun laws have made it more likely that people are armed while in public and they might be more willing to use such weapons as a result, they say.

***snip***

"It's never been easier to be armed, and the laws of self-defense have never favored private individuals as much as they do now," said Jay Albanese, a criminologist and a professor of criminal justice studies at Virginia Commonwealth University. "So if you combine those two, you're likely to get more people shooting in self-defense, or at least believing they're in self-defense.

***snip***

Interestingly, the national rise in justifiable homicides has occurred as violent crime levels have dropped. The estimated U.S. violent crime level total in 2009 was 5.2 percent below the 2005 level and 7.5 percent below the 2000 level, according to the FBI.emphasis added
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news/2011/may/29/tdmain01-justifiable-killings-rise-in-virginia-and-ar-1071536/

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FiveGoodMen

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message

1. Legally-permitted killings, I think they mean

Only if more people are forced to defend themselves from harm can justifiable killings go up.

And that seems unlikely when "violent crime levels have dropped".

What this is saying is that we've decided it's okay to shoot more people.

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ProgressiveProfessor

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #1

5. Alternatively it means that more people now have the capability and willingness to resist

I teach self defense and firearms mostly to GLBTs and women. Most of them have never held a gun previously. Many end up buying handguns and are now able to resist when attacked. It is a good thing

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spin

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #5

9. It is definitely a good thing ...

when an honest person can successfully resist an attack from someone who intends to harm or kill him.

A good self defense course or a legally concealed firearm can save a persons life. It's not a bad idea to have both skills in martial arts and proficiency with a firearm that you can legally carry.

Being prepared is never a bad idea.

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TPaine7

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Thu Jun-09-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #1

10. I beg to differ...

Mathematically, your assertion is demonstrably false. Consider the following scenario:

* In one year there are 100k attacks justifying a potentially lethal defense but only 5k victims are capable of mounting that defense.
* The next year there are only 75k attacks justifying a potentially lethal defense but 10k victims are capable of mounting that defense.

Attacks justifying a potentially lethal defense would have declined 25% while the # of people killed in justified defensive actions would very likely rise somewhere in the neighborhood of 100%.

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oldbanjo

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Thu Jun-09-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #10

15. Maybe the bad guys are learning to behave

if they don't they will possibly be shot.

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PavePusher

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Thu Jun-09-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1

11. "forced"?

Or, possibly, "allowed" or "choose to".

And yes, self-defense rights have been expanding. Perhaps that's one of a myriad of reasons why crime has been dropping. Hmmmm.....

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GreenStormCloud

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Thu Jun-09-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1

12. You left out a huge factor. ABILITY to defend.

Previously almost no one was able to carry a gun then no one had one when they needed to defend themselves. Now, with the rise of lawful concealed carry more people have one when they need it. Street criminals are learning that being a mugger has become a really high risk occupation (Still safe in some states) and some are turning to other crimes. So to see both more justifiable killings and a deceasing violent crime rate at the same time is not surprising, in fact it should be expected.

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spin

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Thu Jun-09-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #12

13. If I was a mugger by occupation, I would move to Chicago...

I sure as hell would not live in Tampa, Florida. Tampa is in Hillsborough County where 40,278 people have concealed weapons permits.
ref: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_active.html

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slackmaster

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message

2. Indulging in violent attacks against innocent people has become more dangerous

And that is a good thing.

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spin

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #2

7. Which is probably a main factor in why the violent crime rate has fallen ...

Edited on Thu Jun-09-11 11:01 AM by spin

the professional criminal doesn't want to encounter armed citizens so he changes his tactics and no longer enters entering occupied homes or mugs people on the street.

Unfortunately, there are still plenty of amateur thieves and thugs who didn't get the word and some make a bad mistake and attack an armed individual and end up dead.

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Kolesar

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Thu Jun-09-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #7

14. bullshit. It's demographics

The end of the baby boom meant there is not a lot of young men with time on their hands.

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spin

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Thu Jun-09-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #14

19. Where I live there are a lot of unemployed men and women ...

of all ages with plenty of time on their hands.

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onehandle

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message

3. Chief Quembie, "And once a man is in your home, anything you do to him is nice and legal."

Homer, "Is that so! Oh Flanders!, won�t you join me in my kitchen!"
(homer chuckles)
Chief Quembie, "Ah it doesn�t work if you invite them."
Flanders, "Hidely Hey!"
Homer, "Go home."
"Tuddly do!"

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Kolesar

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message

4. Is that like when the coroner doesn't even bother to get out his car at the scene of the death?

"looks justifiable, I'll sign off on it"
"let's go get some coffee"

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ProgressiveProfessor

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #4

6. Any real world examples to back that up?

Edited on Thu Jun-09-11 10:46 AM by ProgressiveProfessor

Your example is specious. The coroner determines how someone died and does not address justification.

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ileus

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Thu Jun-09-11 10:54 AM
Response to Original message

8. least believing they're in self-defense...hint it's not self-offense

The 413 killings by police nationwide............wasn't there also a big uptick in cop shootings last year?

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oldbanjo

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Thu Jun-09-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #8

16. Your right there have been

a lot more accidental cop killing civilians then civilians with permits killing civilians.

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spin

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Thu Jun-09-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #16

17. Welcome to DU. (n/t)

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Katya Mullethov

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Thu Jun-09-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #16

20. Had a close call in MO last week

"When they discovered what they were doing ....police left the scene . "
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-independence-police-shoot-at-concrete-alligator-20110531,0,4098846.story

Shoot shit up , and then just split , way to go guys .

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spin

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Thu Jun-09-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #20

21. Great story. I'd ask the police department to pay for the damage. (n/t)

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Katya Mullethov

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Thu Jun-09-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #21

22. "They handcuffed nobody , and there was no hole in the door "

Wait a minute , that's the Stockton student loan collectors . It's getting hard to keep up with all of them .

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petronius

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Thu Jun-09-11 03:41 PM
Response to Original message

18. Looking at at the figure with the article, it seems that both numbers

rose together in the early 90s, dropped until about 2000, then started creeping up again.

http://static.mgnetwork.com/rtd/special/Justifiable_homi/justifiable.htm

One of the commenters in the article links the current rise to castle laws, but that doesn't explain the police uptick or the similarity between the curves. It seems more likely to me that there is another process explaining both lines - demographics? Economy? :shrug:

Either way, these are tiny numbers - it seems like it would be possible to details on every VA event over the last decade and tease out whether the self-defense laws encouraged shooters to behave differently than they would have in the past (although it appears that VA doesn't even have a castle law - it was defeated in 2010?)...

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Dr_Scholl

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Thu Jun-09-11 07:57 PM
Response to Original message

23. Violent crime dropped 5% in Virginia last year...

according to the State Police. Unfortunately, the homicide rate ticked up to 4.6 per 100,000 from 4.4. But that's still pretty low.

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