Why will the Assault weapon ban sunset make the USA less safe?

This is my first post so what I ask is for intelligence responses. If you have a poll or a quote please include a link. Also opinions are welcome as always. I am just curios because all the AW Ban sunset will mean is that reg capacity mags will be cheap (because as we know they have always been available) and why will the lifting of the cosmetic features ban make America less safe? In advance thanks for you responses and please be civil.
Tom

now that's scary.

have you seen or heard of these guys? They like to run around in the woods playing with AR15's, pretending they're going to protect us from the black helicopters and all. I can't imagine that McVeigh WAS NOT a big fan of the assault weapons.

Anyone that wants a collapsible stock/bayonet lug on their semi auto rifle is automatically a criminal/terrorist?

Timothy Mcveigh types usually do not obtain their weapons legally anyway, so an extension of the AW ban will have no effect on criminals/terrorists.
Tom

if you stopped pretending that the issue amounts to bayonet lugs....

perhaps you can enlighten us on the real issue???
Tom

that Tom DeLay and Bill Frist are blocking....

The ban on virtually all semi autos or the renewal of the AW ban without the regular capacity mag ban?

If I am not mistaken there are a couple bills. One bill is a renewal of the AW ban minus the regular/large capacity magazine ban and a new ban that bans pump action and virtually all semi auto rifles.

From any stand point both are terrible laws and a total waste of time and effort. These bills/potential laws will not prevent crime, all they will do is violate the rights of law abiding citizens.

Mrbenchley,
I would be interested if you have the time in an reason in detail on what the bills actually do and how you think it will prevent crime/make America safer.
Standing by,
Tom

"From any stand point both are terrible laws and a total waste of time and effort."
Cry me a fucking river. They seem more than reasonable to me.

just say to your self 10 times ""I fear guns mom please hold me" just kidding

(sorry Luna I had to violate my rules for one minute).

Mrbenchy I'm not trying to piss you off. Take a breath and relax before you post as there is no need for profanity.

The Castle bill as I read it will allow us to have 100+ round mags. Now I think this is a good thing, but if one would support such a bill as Senator Finestein and Senator Shumer does why would they care about a folding stock or a flash hider?

I can see the headlines: "New AWB allows 100rds but outlaws bayonet lugs and folding stocks" give them time if they think its ok to give regular/large capacity mags back they will see the light and abandon the whole AW ban idea.
Tom

that our "pro gun democrats" have to keep lying about "bayonet lugs" and the like....

"The Castle bill ...Senator Finestein and Senator Shumer "
Nothing like an informed debate from our RKBAers....EVER.

"I can see the headlines: "New AWB allows 100rds but outlaws bayonet lugs and folding stocks" "
Where are you going to see those headlines? Armed Fuckwit magazine?

and I think you're wrong. Most of them probably bought their AR15's legally. It's just the planning to overthrow the government part that's illegal.

with any militia. How about a cite to back that up? In any case, what does it matter if McVeigh was a fan of assault weapons? He didn't use an AW to commit his crime, he used a big bomb. If he was as big a fan of AWs as you claim then maybe that should tell you something about AWs.

a folding stock for his car bomb?
Tom

"This is my first post so what I ask is for intelligence responses."

folding stock for his car bomb - lmao.

Welcome, its always nice to have someone in the gungeon with a sense of humor. :hi:

Thanks, yea you are correct. I was amazed by the response I received thus the reason for my poor reply.
Tom

"If the existing assault weapons ban expires, I personally do not believe it will make one whit of difference one way or another in terms of our objective, which is reducing death and injury and getting a particularly lethal class of firearms off the streets. So if it doesn't pass, it doesn't pass."

- Tom Diaz of the VPC on NPR, March 11th, 2004
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1760128

...the AWB of 1994 was a giant waste of time and effort,

Yea alot of jobs were lost over this useless law.
Tom

of America, since the NRA's Presidential candidate was installed by the Suckpreme Court. I think the gun lobby should have it's feet held to the fire for all the unemployment they are causing among ordinary Americans.

Then the gun lobby would lose it's political power overnight.

about the Democrats and the democratic ticket....

Such nice playmates our "pro gun democrats" have....

Once again the Diaz quote is wrenched out of context....

From the increase in bayonet wounds inflicted by the new weapons produced if the ban sunsets.

It won't make any difference at all except to a few idiots who like to ruin perfectly good rifles by hanging Rooney accessories on them, and the hucksters who sell the junk to them.

That's really funny about the militia types stocking up. Like they're not doing that already?

If you people were serious about the militia problem you'd forget this silliness and concentrate on doing something about the REALLY scary hole in the laws - right now anybody can buy a truckload of ammonium nitrate (the same stuff that was used in OKC) without any license or meaningful paperwork at all.

I mean, they plan on using that stuff to overthrow our democratically elected government, if we ever have one again.

I keep several thousand rounds on hand all the time. We shoot a great deal and the volume discounts for 500 or 1,000 round lots - or more - provide a great savings in the purchase prices.

Yup. It's all locked up nice and safe - except for what's in the piece I carry.

I plan to use it against the hordes of paper targets that are plotting to invade peaceful California.

:dunce:

Buying in bulk by mail order saves a LOT of money. No 8.25% state sales tax, no retail markup.

so the law didn't prevent the DC snipers at all. just think how many more people they could have killed if only they'd had a bayo lug and flas hider /sarcasm off.

So the Brady bill and the AW ban did nothing to prevent these crimes/deaths. As we all know criminals will always have weapons. No law will ever prevent this. I think it is time to quit punishing the law abiding citizens and start going after the criminals.
Tom

The killers spent a lot of time practicing on the tree stumps to hone their killing skills. If they weren't able to buy ammo, then they wouldn't have had the bullets to practice murdering, or to murder.

...they would have committed their crime with a .308 or 30-06. It would have probably been more effective.

If they had used a semi-auto hunting rifle instead of an "assault weapon," would you be bellowing about our desparate need to ban hunting rifles?

People can reload ammo, I know people that have components for thousands of rounds.

I can mold the bullets out of any old copper or lead and reload my own.

Of course, if we banned all ammunition that fits the AR 15, we'd have a bunch of pissed off farmers and hunters that ose the .223 as a varmint round. I'd be one of them. I use a NEF Handi-Rifle (single shot) chambered in .223 for groundhogs in the soybeans.

AR-15 rifles use the same ammunition as a lot of other firearms that don't look like ray guns from 1950s SciFi flicks.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Life experience and education prior to one's DU registration count for nothing.

I'd wager that Kerry and Edwards are not DU members. Were they to register today, would you dismiss their first few hundred posts because of a low count as you do those who don't toe your particular line?

The rest is pure fluff.

I haven't seen any hard evidence that the present ban's reduced magazine capacity is beneficial to public safety. How many people were shot by round number 11 or 23? I think it would be a very rare event.

The "Sky is falling", crowd is screaming just to hear their own monotonous voices.

I received Friday, via UPS, six 30 round mags and 3 45 round mags. All perfectly legal. The 30's were new pre-bans and the 45's were military recons.

Edited to add: The total cost was under $100.00 for all: and I got a free Air Soft MP5 replica in the deal.

we liberals need protection by all the conservative assault weapon owners.

I do hope that you're not referring to me as a conservative.

But I also think the bans on silencers and flash suppressors could be effective. I thought the DC snipers were using a flash suppressor. A flash suppressor could certainly help lunatics like them evade capture for a little while longer. Who knows how many people they could kill in the meantime. Silencer? Same thing.
"Fingerprints" from all assault style weapons sold, could also have led to an earlier capture, and possibly saved more lives. It's amazing what just a few sensible gun laws could do to save lives. I don't really see any sporting or home protection advantages to using silencers or flash suppressors, let alone the high capacity mags.

since 1934.

As I understand it, the DC snipers used a post-ban rifle, which wouldn't have had a flash suppressor. Even if it did, though, it wouldn't have made a difference considering they were firing from inside the trunk of a car which would have suppressed far more flash than a flash suppressor.

They used a post-ban Bushmaster, which was in full compliance with the AWB.

Also, can you please elaborate on exactly how a flash suppressor aids criminals specifically? Do you even know what a flash suppressor is and what it does?

With a couple of holes drilled in the trunk.

BTW - They COULD be charged for having an unregistered sound suppressor for using the car in that manner. I think they should be, OTOH they're already facing death or life in prison, so additional prosecutions would be a waste of resources.

Gun controllers think that restricting the numbers/availability of so called assault weapons in the market eventually will reduce the numbers that wind up in criminal hands. They wholeheartedly avoid the actual statistics on "assault weapon" use in crime. They also believe these weapons are more lethal than all other semi auto rifles, but they wont say how specifically. They tend to disparage all gun owners as being dangerous, loonies, nazi's, fuckwits, dishonest,...etc, and thus treat us all as second class "Democrats". They often avoid being direct in their answers but instead use rhetoric and insult in order to circumvent honest debate.

I believe the reason the gun control crowd still supports the AWB, despite its poor record of success in reducing gun crime, is because of a fundamental belief that guns "cause" crime. They point to polls and statistics that support their argument, but disregard or belittle any such measure that does not support it. They cite the gun crime/gun homicide rates in the US and attribute causation to guns/gun owners but, they will not acknowledge or entertain any debate on other societal factors that might play a role in those crimes.

So, my answer to your question is, I have NO idea how the AWB sunset will make us less safe. A forthright debate with AWB supporters might shed some light on the answer but, so far I have been unsuccessful in finding such a debate. Good luck to you.

and thanks for your comment.
Tom

Keep weapons out of the hands of murderers and terrorists. It's no secret that the assault rifles and high capacity full auto handguns are the weapons of choice of the militia, KKK, skinheads, and other seditious conspirators. In the past, the weapon of choice of the KKK was the rope. Today, it seems they're all armed with AR15's.

If it's no secret, would you kindly post some data to support your claim? Please don't use anything from the VPC/Brady groups, or the NRA. I'd like something unbiased.

Exactly which models of handguns are "high capacity" and "full auto"? I am aware of only 1, the Glock 18C, and it is very tightly controlled. It is not (nor has ever been) available for sale to civilians in the U.S.

Maybe you're thinking of submachineguns, like the MAC-11 or UZI? You're aware that ALL full-auto weapons are subject to NFA regulations, which have no expiration date? Are you also aware that such weapons are significantly larger, heavier, and generally more cumbersome than traditional handguns?

I look forward to your reply.

I thought folks like the Michigan Militia crawled around on their bellies clutching SKS rifles because they're too cheap to buy an AR-15.

Other than that, I have no idea how the AWB sunset makes us less safe. Good riddance to a bad law.

and Ted Nugent. That ALONE makes it a GREAT law....

Chances are if the Aw ban had not been passed that Republicans would not control Congress.
Tom

It was a risky move that cost the Democrats control of Congress. We've had big, happy fun ever since.

shows what they really are, too.....

but alas, all that seems to be rattling around the gourds of our "pro gun democrats" is stale dishonest NRA propaganda....

For your responses.

It would be safe to say the AWB was a fruitless effort by the anti gun lobby to infringe on our 2nd amendment rights.

Since this law accomplished nothing (other than making prebans expensive) it will die hopefully to never return.
Thanks Tom

but it appears nothing has...