Want repukes to start passing gun control legislation? Easy

Just start getting homosexuals and tons of minorities and liberals (I know those groups overlap) to start buying automatic weapons.

Don't have to use them, just secure them somewhere safe.

But WATCH the gun control legislation start happening then. The gun shop owners would be reporting a RASH of openly homosexual Americans walking in saying "yeah what's the most powerful thing you've got and how much ammo am I allowed to buy?" Liberals in red states showing up talking about defending themselves against their bush-voting neighbors. Etc. You wouldn't even have to publicize it beyond that. Believe me, those guys selling them would be on the phone to their local NRA chapter before you even got out of the store.

(I got this idea from another thread....apologies to the poster-Logansqaure I lifted this from...I think you had an intriguing idea and wanted to float it on its own.)

So would it work?

But guns are expensive... maybe we can set up a fund for it! :evilgrin:

George Soros.

Yes, let's set up an Armed Liberals Gun Club.

Hell, I own two guns.

Watch them not like it suddenly when WE appear to get all gun nutty!

ROFL!

Let's start raising money!

I'm an old lady -- AND a Liberal to boot -- they should be very afraid if a bunch of us oldsters start packing.

Elderly liberals packing some heat!

I'm in the Dallas area, are you in a red state? Let's take this idea to our state forums and start talking it up there.

Find some way to let the person selling it to you know you are a liberal. That's key.

ever hear of Ohio?

Maybe we could get AARP to help?

This could be very scary indeed . . .

just make sure they are very clear these are LIBERALS buying the guns. Otherwise, it won't alarm them in the least.

Well...........yes. <VBG>
300 rounds at the range yesterday but the guns didn't seem to mind my liver spots.

I'm Liberal, angry and ARMED!

:scared:..

The guy did 7-12 in prison:)

I could go for that. And take the classes, too. It pays to know what your doing and let off a little steam while we're at it.

I'm sure he's got some money and I know he's a gun nut.

Armed Liberals Gun Club we need to get the ball rolling on this.

Sounds like a great idea to me.



www.liberalswithguns.com

Pish! For less than 200 buck you could get a decent (not great but not crap) Yugo SKS and a hundred rounds of ammo. In fact, one place I know of is selling them for $88.95

But it's not an automatic weapon.

I know. Trust me, you don't want full auto. I've shot full auto and was lucky to hit what I hit.

As well, and this is NOT something I would suggest doing, as it will only get you in to deep do-do with BATF, filing down the sear on an SKS will set it to slamfire full auto. Not the safest thing in the world by far.

Mine is happy being the semi-auto peice of junk she is.

I'm not even gay and I want to start a Gay Gun Club.

The Gay Gun Club.

How much are automatic weapons anyway?

We could go into gun shops en masse and ask where those forms are and how long does it take to get clearance to buy that AK-47? Got a little "duck hunting" to do, wink wink nudge nudge.

so that they will KNOW.

But I would advise going in as large of a group as possible. Make a real impression. Say 8-12 homosexuals. Take some straight friends.

Be prepared to actually buy. Bust out VISAs and checkbooks, let 'em know you are serious. Fill out the form, act anxious about when it will get approved.

I'm enjoying just thinking about this!

Who's up for a Dallas area Gay Gun Club?

:evilgrin:

but they usually run in girls sizes!

The venerable Remington 870 12-gauge pump-action sells for around $200, most Marlin lever-action .30-30's sell for $250-$300, Savage bolt-action deer rifles with scopes in chamberings up to .300 Winchester Magnum can be had as package deals for $400. Most mil-surplus AK-47 clones go for $250-$400, and Saiga rifles (an AK action with a more sporting-looking stock) sell for $200-$250. Russian SKS's, German Mauser 98's, and Russian Mosin-Nagants are also common and cheap, but not nearly so

But bear in mind that any AK's, Saigas or SKS's you buy in the stores are semi-automatic only, not true automatic weapons. They only fire one shot per trigger squeeze, not bursts like in the movies. If you wanted one of those, that would require you to first spend months getting the proper paperwork filled out with the BATF and the local sheriff, and paying a $200 tax to buy one. Then you can legally own a true automatic weapon, but the starting cost is usually in the thousands of dollars for these, as they are fairly rare and hard to find.

It'd make them shake in their boots, I'm telling ya. I know these people. They only like the idea of THEM being all gun-nutty.

So we act like we've suddenly gone all gun nuts and just go buy loads of them (especially in red states, has to be in red states!).

me to shoot a rifle. I haven't done it since. This may be the time to go ahead and buy a gun (or guns) for me, my family, and my friends. We have land and can practice. Hum, might even cut down on the trespassing. I'm ready. Sounds like fun.

and we're big liberal Democrats.

We keep them safely locked up, but heck yeah we have them.

are there. Just got CDs for some of my favorite old albums and am in a very late 60s/early 70s sort of mood. But I still want to keep the ATVs out of my woods and away from the stream.

Retired with little to do so I took the class and now I'm packing heat. The NRA runs the class. We need moderate to liberal gun groups to run classes, inform us about laws, support Democrats and fight for sensible gun laws.
Good used handgun can be had for less than $200.00, CCW class is about $100.00.
I worry about 50cal snipper rifles being legal. Can bring down a plane, go through steel and shoot a target over a mile away. You'll never see the NRA questioning ownership of these terrorist weapons until something terrible happens.

are *GREAT* for moose hunting. There's not many cartridges I'd trust as much as a .50 to bring down a big old bull moose.

For your CCW license. I have one and I pack heat every time I go out. It's important during these reactionary times.

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Mr. Second Amendment used to say that he'd favor gun control only when the "wrong element" started to arm themselves heavily. Sure there are illegal guns out their but he was talking about an article that said more women were buying guns----he then listed other groups that "couldn't be trusted but they don't buy guns"

In any event, I think you are right.

I'm telling you guys it would SCARE THE SHIT out of the right wingers.

"Mr. Second Amendment used to say that he'd favor gun control only when the "wrong element" started to arm themselves heavily. Sure there are illegal guns out their but he was talking about an article that said more women were buying guns----he then listed other groups that "couldn't be trusted but they don't buy guns""

There are many (but not all) like him. Your average sportsman, target shooter or collector could care less if you're a one armed transexual in platforms but others own weapons out of simple fear of those unlike them.

Guns like other tools serve a purpose. They're darn useful in staying safe in your own home for one thing. I've overheard a gun store clerk tell a customer that "we shoot Democrats here." I'm certain he would love to but his employer will require him to sell you whatever you wish. Even the average gun owner complains about the "bubbas behind the counters".

RW churches. Attend every meeting and speak whenever you have a chance. Say liberal talking points in 'moral' terms whenever possible: "It's immoral to ignore the poor and homeless." If they try and kick you out say..."what would jesus do?"

:evilgrin:

they wouldn't listen. I've been saying those same things to fundies and right wingers for years. They just change the subject and/or talk louder, just like the shitheads on TV.

Then I must be thinking of semi-automatic.

Well, whatever is the hardest core thing that is legally available.

It's been that way since 1934. The price for these weapons really took off for the stratosphere when Reagan signed a bill in 1986 that prevented new American-made fully automatic firearms from being sold on the civilian market.

There are semi-auto versions of some of the more desirable assault rifles and stuff. That's what most most people who claim to have, say, an AK-47 have actually got: a semi-neutered look-alike.

But yeah, I think you're right. The "support" that a lot of right-wingers give to the RKBA is implicitly conditional on the assumption that they will be only people buying these things. In fact, the big move toward strict gun control in California came when conservatives -- including then-governor Ronald Reagan -- freaked out over the news that the Black Panthers had begun arming themselves. The Panthers were NOT breaking the firearms laws, and so of course the laws themselves had to be changed. :eyes:

The Mumford Act, I think it was? Anyway, Reagan signed it. That guy LOVED gun control -- don't let anyone tell you different.

Read and learn: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/index.htm

To defend myself against those REDNECK, little-dick types!!

Bake

Even better if you are gay, are you?

Bake

We don't want to start a huge wave of business for Red business owners.

I'll have to research this......

Hrmmm... Sig Sauer maker of some of the FINEST pistols on the market (worth every penny if you ask me) is Swiss :) Not blue, but certainly not red.

As well, if you go mil surp you can get some nice communist bloc rifles then you'll truly be "red".

Glocks are Austrian I think, Berettas are Italian and Sigs are Swiss. Glocks seem to attract rednecks more than other brands.

I love it!

Sorry, but that won't work. It has already been well established that the more enthusiastic supporters of the second amendment will support ANYBODY who wishes to exercise their second amendment rights, including gays and minorities. Or even gay minorities!

One such organization, the Pink Pistols, is on friendly (but platonic!) terms with practically every group of gun rights enthusiasts and every gun organization.

Generally speaking, the gun issue unites Republicans like hatred of Bush unites Democrats.

Groucho.







"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?"

"more enthusiastic supporters of the second amendment will support ANYBODY who wishes to exercise their second amendment rights"

Anybody but Kerry!
That is the first time I've heard the NRA giving someone a hard time for actually using a gun for its intended purpose

The only problem with this is that the Republican Taliban running the Congress and the President, C+ Augustus would pass legislation banning same sex marriage and Gay Gun Ownership at the same time so If you want to do this do it quick before your Second Amendment rights are stripped away by the right-wingnuts

there was even an article on that website about Democrats visiting gun shows en masse. Good idea.

The manufacture and importation of new automatic weapons for other than police or military use was stopped by the "Firearm Owners' Protection Act" of 1986. As a result the number of them in circulation is fixed, therefore prices have gone through the roof.

Here are some sample prices from one dealer:

Vector Uzi 9mm New In Box $7,499.99
MP40 Tube Gun $8,999.99
HK91 Factory Built Machine Gun $13,999.99
Mac-10 9mm & .45 $3,199.99
German MG-34 $19,999.99
1917 Water Cooled $24,999.99
Colt M16A1 Like New $15,499.99
ArmaLite AR-18L $7,999.99

How many people can afford to pay those prices?

:shrug:

Ok they don't have to be THOSE guns, just guns.

that someone will step in to fill the void left by the absence of Tek-9's and those other Miami Vice type weapons.

The Brady Act is still in effect; and it has nothing to do with makes, models, or types of firearms.

:wtf:

They addressed this in the 2nd or 3rd debate. Kerry took a stance on re-enacting the Brady Bill because police officers would be faced with assault weapons... again. However, Bush took no stance on the issue. Since the Brady Bill isn't being re-enacted by the Republican controlled govnernment, it's completely legal to buy assault rifles and pistols banned by the Brady Bill. If you're looking for inexpensive... look at the SKS. It's just as good as an AK-47 and you'll probably pay less than 300 dollars.

The Brady Law is permanent.

Don't take my word for it - see http://www.atf.gov/firearms/bradylaw/index.htm - follow links to the actual text of the laws if you still aren't convinced.

Kerry took a stance on re-enacting the Brady Bill because police officers would be faced with assault weapons... again.

You're thinking of the "assault weapons" ban, which expired on September 13. The Brady Law is a completely different critter.

Since the Brady Bill isn't being re-enacted by the Republican controlled govnernment, it's completely legal to buy assault rifles and pistols banned by the Brady Bill.

The Brady Law is about background checks on gun buyers. It has nothing whatsoever to do with types of firearms.

They'll have to display them, or carry them.

to know they are gay. Drop a few hints (very casual, nothing that could be misinterpreted), definitely take friends with you. Talk about how important it is to defend yourself, "especially now."

Etc.

when you go in the store. Look really pissed. You won't have to say anything. Just buy the stuff.

"The liberal drag queen's got a gun!"

(with apologies to Julie Brown)

Here's another idea:

What would happen if we all joined the NRA? Surely there are more of us than there are of them. We could show up at their conventions in all of our spendor. Wouldn't that be fun?

My pro second amendment husband pointed out that was a Jewish gun organization that suggested gun ownership as a way to prevent the Holocaust from happening again, a few women's gun groups who suggest guns as a way to prevent rape and other attacks, and a gay gun group. I can't remember the names of most of these groups. I think that the gay gun group was called the Pink Pistols.
Yes, automatic weapons are too expensive but there is no reason that we shouldn't encourage gun ownership and proper training to groups that may be threatened under the regime.

Your husband was most likely referring to Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership and Second Amendment Sisters. Others have already mentioned The Pink Pistols

http://www.pinkpistols.org/

Anyone who really cares about human rights must recognize the right of self defence. As an open minded heterosexual who belives in the golden rule, I have encouraged several GLBT friends and aquaintances to learn effective methods of self defence.

As for getting the right to support gun control? I think most would rather see armed gays than give up their own guns.
It's interesting to think that many of the gun control laws that were passed in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries were "Jim Crow" laws intended to keep guns out of the hands of minorities. The "discretiuonalry" licensing laws gave local lawmen the power to choose who could be armed and who couldn't. Imagine a black man trying to get sa gun license from the white sheriff who may well have been the leader of the local KKK.

Social justice begins with freedom and freedom begins with the right to defend yourself. Without that right, all others are just priviledges that can be taken away by any bully that comes along, whether he's wearing a white hood or a Gov't uniform, or both.

Shalom/Peace

The only reason I didn't vote for Kerry was because of his Senate record on gun control. I will not support any candidate for president who has no respect for the second amendment of our constitution. I realize that Bush has little respect for parts of the constitution as well, but from my perspective, the current attacks against the 2nd amendment are more effective than any legislation aimed at the 1st amendment, the 5th amendment, etc.

Personally, I wish more minorities, women, homosexuals, liberals, etc. would buy guns, because then I know the Democratic party would stop supporting gun control legislation. If Kerry had not been such a hardcore gun grabber, he would have gained many votes from hunters and firearm collectors, esp. in "red" states like Ohio and Florida; Gun control cost Kerry this election. You give me a democratic candidate who opposes the Patriot act AND opposes restictions on my right to self defence, and you'll have my vote, and many others as well. Think about it.

And you hardcore democratic folks... I can't see how you support gun control legistlation anyway. If the republicans go completely nuts and strip away all your rights, what recourse are you going to have? Do you really want to disarm yourself and be thrown at the mercy of the Bush administration? I think you should reconsider burning any bridges, guns may be the only thing a facist regime will ever understand. This country was founded by an armed populace ready to stand in the face of tyranny and, if need be, it will be reborn the same way.

Hi Im the manager of a large gun shop and I can assure you all that all people are welcome in our gun owning world to own firearms! That includes, gays, lesbians, transgendered, people of colour and indeed any progressive person who is law abiding. Rememeber the best defense against tyranny is to own a gun! If you want one, send me a PM and I will help set you up with a Federally Licensed Firearms Dealer in your area.If there is enough interest, I can work a deal for a group purchase of guns (say like Ar15s) at favorable prices

Free Men own guns, slaves dont!

WildbeattheclassenemytodeathAlaska

This is the same reason I would not vote for Kerry. I have always encouraged my best friend, who is gay, to buy a gun and learn to shoot. Her reason for not owning a gun was that the liberal democrats did not support gun ownership and she was going to vote for Kerry and that the president was "against gays". Kerry had a pretty clear anti-gun/hunting voting record and I think it was obvious to most gun owners.

If you're serious (and I don't entirely believe you are) your priorities are seriosly misplaced. What about the deficit? What about disastrous foreign policy? The environment? Education?

You'd trade it all for the right to shoot your little gun, huh?

Fucking nuts. :crazy:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

last night's post was unnecessarily offensive.

But I do think you have very, very misplaced priorities. Doesn't compare to abortion, which is a life or death issue, as is foreign policy, as is (quite frankly) the environment.

First of all, Kerry probably would have renewed the AWB. He is not going to take anyone's guns away. I would like to hear your argument how not being able to own an assault weapon compares, as an issue, to invading foreign countries illegally or running up a deficit which our kids will be paying off for decades.

No comparison.

a life or death issue. Have you looked at the werenotsorry site? those folks are armed to the hilt and all it would take is them getting the bright idea that "hey, libs aren't armed, right? We own most of the guns right? Elections, smelections, let's round em up!"

An AR-15 with a bull barrel will out shoot rightous indignation anyday.

that it's coming to that. AR-15, what's that? A semi-auto rifle? What do they go for?

The AR-15 is the semi-automatic rifle based on the M16 design. To most outward appearances it is identical to an M16 with one extremely important difference - it can only fire one round per pull of the trigger. It's an ingenious design, not without it's flaws and detractors. I built one from parts (yes, legally) that is quite accurate. I enjoy putting holes in defenseless paper targets with it.

steps on your other amendment rights to protect your 2nd?

"And you hardcore democratic folks... I can't see how you support gun control legistlation anyway. If the republicans go completely nuts and strip away all your rights, what recourse are you going to have? Do you really want to disarm yourself and be thrown at the mercy of the Bush administration? I think you should reconsider burning any bridges, guns may be the only thing a facist regime will ever understand."

He's right and they're already trained and armed. They also watch these threads at DU so they're probably having a good giggle right now.
If you choose to own a weapon you must be responsible for it's safety and educate yourself. There are forums for that all over.

http://glocktalk.com/
http://www.sigforum.com/
http://groups.msn.com/TaurusTalk/_whatsnew.msnw
http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/index.php
http://www.berettaforum.net/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi
http://www.hkboards.com/

The most affordable but also accurate semi-auto is the Makarov 9x19.
http://www.makarov.com/guns/index.htm

The SKS was already mentioned as a bargain in a rifle.

Educate yourselves while keeping your mouths shut. You won't find converts on these sites but you will come to understand the passion behind their politics.
If you're still unconvinced read the history of the Warsaw ghetto Jews.

glocktalk.com has a wealth of information to pour over. Hell just look around the web, gun owners are more than willing to share their knowledge; from safety to marksmanship, from weapon choice to reloading they are willing to let you know the best course to follow.

One bone of contention, the Makarov fires the 9x18mm cartridge (AKA 9x18 Makarov). The 9x19 is a different cartridge working at different pressures. The 9x19 is known as the 9mm Luger or 9mm Parabellum (translation: For War).

As a Libertarian I find it rather digusting that you think by throwing freedom in the face of those who support it you could further restrict it. However, for those of you TRULY interested in the shooting sports, a number of place offer used firearms for sale. Now don't be confused by a gun's appearance on the web, firearms can not be shipped to your house unless you are a registered FFL. If you decide you wish to order somethign from the 'net or a catalog first find a willing FFL in your area, the average price for a transfer is $20 on average and this USUALLY includes the cost of the Background check.

CDNN carries a large variety of used firearms, those of you new to shooting I highly recommend a .22 rifle.
(16 meg file)
http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/cdnn/CDNN2004-4.pdf

Gunbroker is basically the E-bay of firearms. The FFL rule still applies, so make sure you have a place to ship to before bidding.
http://www.gunbroker.com/

AIM Surplus carries a large variety of surplus firearms from around the world. If you are interested in collecting weapons with a history, you may consider something from here.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/

Southern Ohio Gun is very similar to AIM surplus, sometimes they carry things that the other does not have. A recent change to SOG's site has made it rather daunting to navigate.
http://www.southernohiogun.com/

You may also want to go to a gun store nearby as they can have a wider selection and sometimes even at a lower price after you factor in shipping and FFL fees.

I'm sure some of you are aware of http://www.thehighroad.org , I'm sure a few of you are even members. IF you are interested in firearms ownership, this is the palce to ask questions about safety, what you should get, how to learn, etc.

By the way, to the starter of this thread. Those of us who support the Bill of rights the most couldn't care less who buys a gun. Gay, Black, White, Red, Yellow, Enuch, Alien, whatever. As long as you follow the law it's not our business to lord over you.

I ordered a pre 98 Turk Mauser. 110 bucks and they shipped it right to my doorstep. Checked it out with my go-no-go gauges and it's prolly one of the most accurate bolt actions I've owned considering it's age.

As well, none of my smokepole stuff needs FFL. If you're interested in getting into the nitty gritty of firearms, blackpowder is the way to go.

I am a Democrat. I am also a gun owner. There is this strange misconception that Dems want to remove the second amendment or something. Not at all. But I see no reason for any of us to own Uzis and shit like that. If it is truly for home defense and/or hunting there is no need for anything like that. We own a handgun and a shotgun. Both are quite sufficient.

As for not caring who buys a gun, of course you don't--you are a libertarian. There are however, many people on the right who would NOT be comfortable at ALL with the idea of gays, minorities, liberals, etc buying guns all of a sudden. Not comfortable at all.

Sorry so many people seemed to miss the tongue in cheekness of this thread.

And do "pro-gun" ads with FLAMING Drag Queens!!! Make it look "manly!"

In "Get Smart". She had a bright pink .38 revolver.
A actually saw a hot pink, .22 rifle at a gun show once, it was a single shot, set up with a very short stock for a kid. My niece fell in love with it at first sight. I thought she was going to cry when my brother didn't buy it for her on the spot.

just the fact that you guys joke about buying guns, and use them as a "political tool" shows that you are too ignorant and to dangerous to own a gun. most of you dont like guns. if you rushed out to buy one and didnt know anyting about it... YOU would be the first one to get hurt by it. this is very scary, i hope that most of you "adults" are grown up enough to see that a gun is not a toy.

Wrong - what do you know about guns?

are you saying guns are toys?

"what do i know about guns?" well....lots, ask and i shall tell just dont be so vauge. besides what does that question have to do with my post?



o and lost creek... how do you know i have "big guns"?

that is my first responce

"are you saying guns are toys?"
is this a trick question?


I have seen many jackasses play with guns - does that make them toys?

" "what do i know about guns?" "
Hey i asked you that very same question - now you are confusing me

ask and i shall tell just dont be so vauge
Why do people like to play with guns?

besides what does that question have to do with my post?
You made some mighty bold statements about guns and the people here

I would bet that there are as many gun nuts on DU as an most groups this size.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THE PEOPLE HERE IF YOU THINK THAT THEY WOULD BE ANY THING LESS THAN VERY SAFE WITH GUNS

I ask you this - Why start you life here with this battle?

quote: "are you saying guns are toys?"
is this a trick question?

no. by joking about using guns as a political object shows that you view them as nothing but a toy to help prove your political view.



quote: ""what do i know about guns?""
hey i asked you that very same question - now you are confusing me

i did not ask you what I know about guns, i was reitterating what you asked me. as in " are you really asking me what i know about guns?"



quote: "ask and i shall tell, just dont be so vuage"
why do people like to play with guns?

still vauge... anyone who plays with guns doesnt deserve to own them, they do not understand, appreciate, or respect the responsibility and power they(the gun) hold. which goes back to my original post, why joke about them?



quote: "YOU DO NOT KNOW THE PEOPLE HERE IF YOU THINK THAT THEY WOULD BE ANY THING LESS THAN VERY SAFE WITH GUNS"

no... i dont know the people here. i hope that you all do buy a gun and go shoot, its a tremendous amount of fun. i just ask that you please.. please understand that a firearm is not a toy and it does require a great deal of respect and responsibilty

We're talking about using the act of buying the gun as a political statement, not the ownership itself. The idea is also directed at people who will buy a gun just to make the statement, and then sell it because they don't want a gun in the house.

In other words, this doesn't mean the people who are against and don't know the first thing about handling guns will keep the weapons they buy. It does mean they should use the act of buying such a weapon a political statemnt.

anti-gun people are often the very worst when it comes to gun safety.

On a number of occasions, in response to a friend's curiosity, I've gone through the basics of how to handle a gun, then handed it to a friend. On most occasions (granted, small sample size) my anti-gun friends have promptly pointed the gun back at me or something equally egregious. And the only occasion in my life where I found myself looking at the wrong end of a loaded .357 was when I shared a firing line with a guy teaching his openly anti-gun girlfriend to shoot.

I don't know why this has been my experience. It could just be coincidence. But it's important that anyone here who is considering purchasing firearms appreciate that you've got to handle them with complete discipline. No "it's not loaded" or any other excuses at all for failing to control where the muzzle is pointed. No negligence at all when it comes to proper maintenance. No using any ammunition not right for your model of gun.

Yes, you can leave a loaded gun unlocked in the house -- as long as you're alone in the house with it or those with you are all equally capable of handling a gun responsibly. If you can't meet that standard 100% of the time (and who can?) you need to be able to lock it down securely. Buy a gun safe, or one of the newer hardened steel locking gun racks and install it in your closet. Don't forget a trigger lock, too. Consider this part of the cost of buying the gun.

I have a personal policy of never allowing myself even to touch a gun when I'm in any sort of tumultuous emotional state, or in any altered state of awareness (prescription drugs and sleep deprivation count).

Guns are completely unforgiving. If you're prepared to take on the discipline of gun ownership, welcome to the club. If not, don't do it.

I haven't shot a gun in over ten years, but I have had the same experience with anti-gun folk and their (ironic) disrespect for a gun's complete lack of forgiveness.

I'd take it one step farther and say that everyone who buys their first gun should consider it mandatory to take lessons on how to use it.

we don't know jack crap about 'em. Lighten up there whatever you are.

A) this thread was ever so slightly tongue in cheek. If you've lurked here for a while you start to get a feel for the intended meaning of a thread

B) I own guns myself. Don't make assumptions about people, it isn't nice. I am fully trained on both of them and am a damn good shot.

I don't really get off on describing guns or looking at them or buying tons of them or posing in pictures with them, but I do own them and know how to use them.

Go put your fear to rest.

Bang Bang - Big guns for small dicks

I just bought my first rifle ever and I think I may join them so I can take their safety and training classes, but I'm a Liberal and they are the NRA. So I asked them if they accept memberships from Liberals who support the 2nd Ammendment. I also asked them if they were just a tool for the RepubliKans, I'm hoping I get a response.

Skip the NRA as a teacher or much else. They're Pro-Anything that goes BOOM!. Ask a sportsman to show you the basics or find a local club like the Isaac Walton League for pointers.
Don't give the NRA a cent.

Every gun law in the country was passed to prevent minorities or "low class" people from getting guns. Lots of folks think the gun law in 1968 was passed because of the killings of the Kennedys and Dr. King. Congress didn't give a d*** about those deaths. But when the lily white Congressmen and Senators looked out on the city of Washington and saw all those black folks getting disturbed about Dr. King's killing, and thought about what might happen if all those black hands had guns in them, they quick passed a law.

The now expired "assault weapons ban" was pushed by Feinstein, not because she cares about crime, but because she is scared s***less of the Mex gangs in LA and Southern CA.

So maybe the idea of the people you mention buying guns might promote more laws. Or maybe not. What happens if they realize that a gun gives them power and they don't cotton to the idea of an American Gestapo kicking in the door and taking it or shooting the gun owner down for the fun of it? After all, that is what Dems have been advocating for a long time, thinking that the recipients of the slaughter would be right wingers.

So buy a gun if you want, but don't count on the NRA to push for gun laws just because we Dems have guns. They are such a single issue group that they don't care about who is a member; I guess they would turn down Osama, but they don't reject gays or progressives.

Jim

thats funny... "every gun law in the country was passed to prevent minorities or "low class" people from gettin guns". i am by far not a racist AT ALL, but as i do recall and do the police reports, everytime i have been robbed at gun point, was by not 1 but 2 "minorities/low class citezens" thats been 3 times now. so i guess your preception of the law is a bit flawed, and unless you have been in my shoes through my experiences dont tell me i'm wrong. i've been there and done that, i know what its like to be looking down the barrel of a loaded gun in the wrong persons hands.

therooster said:
"everytime i have been robbed at gun point, was by not 1 but 2 "minorities/low class citezens"".
Now, what was said about the origin of anti-gun laws IS true. Your observations are also true. So, THAT should be your first clue that gun control does NOT work!

Whatever anyone's motivation for it, it DOSEN'T FUCKING WORK!!! Do they want gun control becuase they think it will reduce crime? Do they want gun control in order to reduce their political enemies to slavery? Are their motives high and pure, or base and dastardly? It makes no differnece. Gun control dosen't work.

All major gun legislation in this country has been put in place for one of two reasons. When anarcho/communist/socialists get guns and when people of color do.

Let's look at history.

The first major piece of gun legislation was the National Firearms Act of 1934. It was put in place right after the Palmer Raids and came on the heels of the Russian Revolution and class unrest in the states. It's sole point was to make the purchase of automatic weapons by the poor impossible. Who could afford the 200 dollar excise tax back then, BUT the rich.

The next major piece of gun legislation was the Gun Control Act of 1968. This came in direct response to armed protests by the Black Panthers. In fact:

Panther Minister of Information, Eldridge Cleaver noted in 1968: "Some very interesting laws are being passed. They don't name me; they don't say, take the guns away from the niggers. They say that people will no longer be allowed to have (guns). They don't pass these rules and these regulations specifically for black people, they have to pass them in a way that will take in everybody."

See: http://www.guncite.com/journals/gun_control_wtr8512.html

This effectively disarmed the Panthers and any other radical group.

The next major bill is the Brady bill. Again, aimed at the poor and people of color. In order to understand how and why, you have to look at who ends up in our criminal justice system. It sure ain't middle class white folks. It's pretty disproportionately people of color and poor whites. What would the compelling state interests be to keep guns out of their hands? Take a guess ;)

The Assault Weapons Ban was basically to keep cheap military surplus guns out of the hands of the poor and people of color. Hey, they're fairly cheap rifles and they look all skery to city liberals who've never held a gun before. Put someone behind it who doesn't pass the marshmallow test and you have something white folks are gonna panic over.

There's a few more laws on the books, but, you get the point here. Gun control isn't about controlling guns, it's about controlling people, making a docile population unable to defend themselves against tyranny. It's about taking guns away from the poor and the oppressed while keeping them in the hands of the wealthy.

As well, you can test this out. Where do the most strict gun control laws occur? Pretty much in any state where middle-class to wealthy whites are forced to live in relatively close proximity to the poor and the non-white. NYC. Chicago. California. New Jersey. All have hella strict gun control.

Some good books on this:
Ward Churchill: Pacifism as Pathology
Edward Abbey: The Right to Arms, Abbey's Road
And of course: http://www.guncite.com/journals/gun_control_wtr8512.html

to keep guns out of the hands of the Black Panthers...

I'm white, live in a big urban area and the only people who have EVER screwed me over have been white, not black or Hispanic or Asian.

Funny that, isn't it?

As a lifelong democrat I have never heard any dem advocate the government kicking down doors and getting in gun battles with RW gun owners.

We aren't out to take your fucking guns away! We just want you to grow up and get over your love affair with penile enhancements.

Guns don't kill people. Idiots with guns kill people.

ON EDIT

Was that over the top? It's quarter to three in the a.m. and way past my bedtime.

BTW, I'm not anti-gun. In my peacetime service I shot expert with the M16 and .45, and proud of the skill. Haven't owned a gun since, as I am naturally depressive, and if I let myself buy one I'd have likely killed myself years ago. Smart enough to recognise my own weakness. Just wish others were, as well.

Good night, world.

In fact they would laugh. Believe me. I live in a solid red county in a solid red state. And I own several firearms. I know the mentality of these folks. They would be happy to see more people owning guns. That would mean more people that would then pressure their representatives to be less restrictive on firearms.

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You smell funny.

The vast majority of gun owners and sellers in this country are not bigots as you suppose them to be. Unlike you most don't label people and would be very happy to sell you a firearm providing you are legally allowed to purchase one. A business is built to make money. By buying a firearm from them, you are supporting the business.

So why don't we try to keep the prejudiced comments at a minimum. Shall we?

Personally, I wish more people would exercise their right to own a firearm. To understand that right is to understand the underlying principles of our country and it's Constitution. The Second Amendment was written to keep our government from getting any wild and crazy ideas. Or at least acting on them.



The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.]
--- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitlers Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942.

openly and visibly well armed, helped the takeover of some campus in '69 I think it was. Such a TERRIBLE thing. People like that shouldn't have guns! Why don't the police do something about it!

Guns owned by RW whites is one thing, but let someone else, some commie or hippie or person of color get a gun, and watch out!

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that double as bongs.

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effect change in the Dem party, Terry MacAuliffe would have been thrown out on his rear long ago. So I guess that tells you how much "power" we have.


I personally have never favored gun control legislation and have taken quite a bit of crap here for arguing against gun control, so take my words for what you will. But I can't imagine anyone with even half a brain thinking that gun control was the most important issue in this election year. That just makes no sense whatsoever.

If you think that the attacks on the 2d are bad, just wait til you see what they'll do to the 4th, 5th and 6th.


And if you are a repub (I'm not accusing, btw)- please tell Sarah Brady to go back to your party where she belongs. She's the biggest Trojan Horse the modern era has seen. Begs Dems for gun control legislation while still belonging to the repub party and campaigning for its candidates. Geesh.

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You do realize that the AWB made it out of committee because of the vote of a repub, right? And that it was over the objections and vote of the fairly liberal Dem Chairman of the committee.

I made the admittedly snarky comment about brains because you seem to have them, but don't seem able to look past the gun issue. Sorry about that.

But as for the things which affect you the most, I'd say the invasion of Iraq and the impending invasion of Syria/Iran actually do more harm to you than the milquetoast gun laws we've had on the books. That billion dollars a week has to come from somewhere- unless of course you're evading/avoiding taxes, in which case I don't want to know. Although I can also understand this issue not helping you like Kerry, either, given his vote on the IWR.

As far as judges go, you're actually more likely to get Constitutional restrictions from Bush's judges than from the most left wing liberal appointment on the bench. Read a few of Rehnquist's and other right wing appointees writings on the 2d amendment issues and you'll see what I mean. They're not in favor of interpreting the Constitution in ANY manner which affords the citizenry expanded rights, even if it is in connection with an interpretation of the 2d.


I'm glad to know you at least vote Lib- they might be evil, but not so much as the repubs! :-)


Were you interested in any of the Dems running? would that have made a difference or are you a dyed in the wool Lib? I'm just curious, because during the bloodbath that was a primary, several posters here felt that a couple of our candidates would be better choices at least in part because of the gun issue. I'm just wondering if we were right.

so I am assuming you are not a Democrat. Why are you here?

Did my thread just prove to be too much and you had to delurk or what?

I doubt very very seriously there are people out there who are single issue voters on GUNS who would EVER vote for a Democrat.

No we don't want to take people's guns away, THAT is a right wing myth that many have swallowed, hook, line and sinker.

I own guns myself. Banning guns is NOT such a hardcore Dem issue. Abortion is also not a big issue to us, as of right now it is legal. HOWEVER the right has been screaming about it for so many years it makes us a bit nervous thus it has become a big issue.

Turn off the AM radio.

And this might not be the right website for you.

Its true that a lot of conservative repub fear and hate gays, but they love their guns more.

betcha it would work too.

Playing dirty is the only way, especially after the same scum you are going to have to screw in the process keeping giving you the short end of the stick

Down and dirty is fair in a down and dirty game, but with that don't we become like them in the process?

Okay, I'm done now, going to look for another thread :hi:

"Down and dirty is fair in a down and dirty game, but with that don't we become like them in the process?"

Not really. I've owned guns and a Lib mentality since 1955. I'm quite different from the clowns in power or those who need an Uzi or enlargement cream to feel masculine.
I do believe in not being a helpless victim and the last two elections appear fixed IMO.

Granted, I left too soon, but maybe the post was a bit confused sounding. That's just one more reason for me to be cautious also. I agree about the two elections (reasoning tells me more than just two). I also have nothing against people having lots of pistols and rifles. Uzi's with an automatic switch not so sure.

I just don't live in the frame of mind but maybe I am as nuts as the debate.

I also wonder if there are great deal of people who believe in evolution that also believe having weapons for protection is good idea. Maybe someone could start that thread, it probably be a flop, but it seems an interesting thought. There could have already been a survey on it somewhere

If you get away from our brainwashing mass media, that reference point of the mind for guns goes away quite quickly

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Should the ability for one to feel safe be up the individual or the establishment?

See these are the things I don't get. Why do people leave off questioning things individually before they look to some type of collective for the answer. As a loner that mostly likes being a loner I like to always ask myself do I feel that way because someone told me I need to think that way or that is how I feel about looking at all the options. To me firearms are an option that I am okay with but don't feel I need.

I could never contemplate feeling the need to kill others for any reason, Life is gift, why would you want to take it away from anybody (or anything for that matter) unnecessarily? Sure I can hate things, but that's about me not them. Letting your emotions run your life (and or others) because you don't understand them or can't control them seems weak to me.

The world will never lay down their arms in our lifetime feeling secure is a good thing if that's what you are feeling, but are you sure that's what you are feeling? )

"I also wonder if there are great deal of people who believe in evolution that also believe having weapons for protection is good idea."

On a personal level you'll live to reproduce if you're not obvious prey. On a global level we need to teach people alternatives like talking, compromise and reliance on a system of justice.

lol

be?

He likes Guns

I've said for a long time that if the NAACP announced a campaign to urge all African-AMerican males to obtain firearms(and where permitted, carry them concealed or unconcealed), there would be some form of gun control legislation passed within two weeks.

onenote

Betcha.

Right wingers have historically made the best gun banners!! If they think the left becomes too much of a challenge, see how quickly they abandon their "principled stand" against gun control. See

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/07/293284.shtml



www.liberalswithguns.com

Excellent!

Blue State gun puchases will soar!

"Blue State gun puchases will soar!"

Not a bad idea. I buy over the web quite frequently. From now on my purchases will not include RED STATES.
I might need to do a few minutes research but 4 years of not getting my $$$ times all the people who choose this option will add up.

Before you run out to the local gun store to purchase a handgun or rifle there are some things you might want to think about.

1)Do you have secure storage for the firearm? By secure I don't mean the closet or night stand.

2)If you have never handeled a firearm you are more of a threat than a criminal. Get some training.

3) You will have to pass a background check.

If you are buying a firearm just to make a political statement you are buying it for the wrong reason. One more thing to remember. Licensed firearm dealers can refuse to sell a firearm to ANYONE they choose. It isn't like going to McDonalds and someone won't serve you.
If an FFL thinks for ANY REASON that you are not acting right or he/she just doesn't like you then you are out of luck. The BATF fully supports this policy.

Put simply....If you go into the local gunstore spouting. "I am a pissed off liberal and I'm buyin' a gun" you are probably going to leave the store empty handed.

Just some food for thought.

GLOCK 19 and 1,000 rounds is that o.k. for starters?