Solidarity with Murad and Munir

By Dror Mishani

Anyone following the reactions in Israel to the riots that have been taking place during the last 10 days in France, could err for a moment and think that the radical left's vision of the End of Days has come true: Never has a political struggle of Muslims and blacks enjoyed such broad support among the Israeli public. "Finally, good news," "What a celebration," "Great!" and "I'm so happy!" - these are only a few of the typical reactions on local Web sites to the news of the incendiary nights in the poor suburbs of Paris.

Reading the reactions in full demonstrates, of course, that this is not solidarity with a political protest. This is only schadenfreude, and mainly an opportunity to express - and this time in the hope that "the world will understand and identify" - hatred of Islam and the Muslims in its most virulent form. Many Israelis feel the time has now come when Europe will be riper than ever to absorb the "know-ledge" that has accumulated here during the decades of "coexistence" with Islam, that same knowledge that is the principal merchandise Israel has been seeking to export to the world, since the attacks on the Twin Towers.

"Islam did not come to Europe in order to become part of it, but in order to take it over", "France has been occupied by Islam, and Spain, Great Britain and Scandinavia now have as well" and "Anyone who lies down with dogs should not be surprised at getting up with fleas," are the popular versions of this knowledge, as they appear on the news sites. But this is exactly the merchandise being exported by some of our politicians, in more polished language, in well-paid lectures at research institutes and in books in fluent English, which seek to share with the West the Israeli experience of dealing with "terror".

>snip

This is a fateful time of trial for this left and for the values it represents. As opposed to the riots of May 1968, this time the struggle is not being led by students of philosophy and literature, and it is not taking place at the attractive square of the Sorbonne. This time those taking to the streets are young men named Murad and Munir, and the struggle is taking place in the gloomy suburbs around Paris, Marseilles and Rouen. And if the old French left will know how to reject the great hatred and fear of Muslims and Islam (the United States, of course, rushed to warn its citizens not to go to the "battle areas"), will recognize the fact that this struggle is not about Muslim occupation of Europe, but about economic and social equal rights, and will once again demonstrate its famous solidarity, these riots could be the beginning of new hope for all the leftist movements - hope for a truly multicultural Europe. If not, not only France, but the entire world, will remain only with the realm of values represented by U.S. President George W. Bush, and with our big talkers, who know that "that's what happens when there are too many Muslims."

More at;
Haaretz

you mean israels problems are not just made in a vacuum.....that appear just here and nowhere in the rest of the world are their similar problems?.....seems there are......and yes to a certain degree there is a smugness of satisfaction.

We're constantly berated for being horrible human beings, inhumane treatment of the palestenians....whereas i'm not going to defend the occupation per sae, never the less the complexity of the situation is always ignored in favor of simplistic solutions......

and that complexity has now come to France, Denmark, and other countries in Europe....though it will make no difference in terms of israel and the palestenains, nor would i expect an "understanding" outside of the various security forces involved..but there will be some, who will have a better understanding of the forces involved over here.

I'm lost here, are you commenting on the same article that I've
posted? The author (not me, the author) does not say that there's
any similarity between the Occupation & the Paris riots, or that
the quotes he provides, of the 'schadenfreude', & the 'hatred of Islam
and the Muslims in its most virulent form' have any bearing on the
situation - he rejects them, he condemns them. It sounds like you
agree with those quoted, I hope that is not the case?

This paragraph that I intended to add, but forgot to, makes his
point clearer;

'But the exporters of knowledge about Islam, as well as those who are simply happy at the misfortune of "the Arab-loving French," will be disappointed to discover that in France there are not many buyers for this Israeli wisdom, except among supporters of the radical right parties. The French press this week disdainfully rejected the attempt by Israeli journalists to call these riots an "intifada," in order to force on it identification with the State of Israel in the local conflict. France is dealing with the harsh events it has been experiencing in the past week with entirely different intellectual tools, and by means of a political culture that has very little in common with Israel's.'

there are two aspects....ones gut emotional reaction and the intellectual one....the intellectul one says something to the affect that "much of europe has a serious problem on hand with the disaffected muslim youth...due to a variety of cultural, economic and "religious identity problems."....This is my prefered reaction, as the problem is very serious for the western democratic europe. Nothing is forever and democracies have to defend themselves. Nor do i see a connection between the occupied territories and the riots..at least not directly.

then there is the more emotional, gut reaction (more imature if you will)....this is the "ahah....so you now you have a problem....do you mind if i start critizing you, non stop, whether or not its reasonable whether or not you deserve it......

so i cant honestly say I am so mature that the gut reaction isnt there....

Why have you quoted Niemöller? Was there any reason? Is there any
relevance, should I bother trying to look for any reason why, or would
that be a pointless exercise?

Are you privy to some info that every other source of news has missed?

Most people would be happy to be wrong in this case. Go figure...

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

;)

from the JP.

"Still, Jewish leaders have breathed a sigh of relief that so far their community hasn't been targeted."

"The Jewish community is not in this story, and that's a very good thing."

:think:

Am I supposed to read all of these articles/ stuff all over again? Sigh

"This is only schadenfreude, and mainly an opportunity to express - and this time in the hope that "the world will understand and identify" - hatred of Islam and the Muslims in its most virulent form"

If it is, I think this sentence makes very little sense. Schadenfreude is used incorrectly in context. It's a strangely structured sentence to boot.

Not very subtle, either.

"Schadenfreude" is when you recommended that somebody buy a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic - and they instead get stuck with a Renault.

"I told you so" is when the Fire Marshal, walking through a burned out house, shines his flash light up at the smoke detector -- and sees that it has no batteries, after he has unscrewed a fuse from the fuse box and found a penny behind it.

The first example you've given, the emotion described is *envy*.
Still no reason given as to why Niemoller was quoted, I see.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Instead of wrecking the thread, & depositing witless, & irrelevant
inanities, why not have a crack at discussing the actual subject of
the article, or answering my question;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x104314#104324

Anyone would think that a deliberate & intentional tactic of ignoring
the subject, of hijacking the thread, was going on, with all the 'Look!
Over there! There's an unrelated topic!'

with their abject failure to integrate the French citizens from North Africa into the larger French society.

At first the larger French society fooled themselves into thinking it was only a little "Muslims versus Jews" problem all because of Israel.

Wrong - it was a societal problem. As some appendesr say with respect to other issues "Apartheid" and "Segregation" and "Racism."

What should have been a warning of a serious societal problem was cavalierly dismissed as "Just Muslims versus over Jews over Israel."

Sometimes what is dismissed as indigestion is actually a heart attack.

'France - Urban riots; Interactive Guide'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/flash/0,5860,1636443,00.html

"And if the old French left will know how to reject the great hatred and fear of Muslims and Islam (the United States, of course, rushed to warn its citizens not to go to the "battle areas"), will recognize the fact that this struggle is not about Muslim occupation of Europe, but about economic and social equal rights, and will once again demonstrate its famous solidarity, these riots could be the beginning of new hope for all the leftist movements - hope for a truly multicultural Europe."

The writer discusses "economic and social rights" but I think it is more about failure of cultural integration, probably because of failures by both the French and the Algerians etal. Whatever was making assimilation difficult before I think will be be doubled after these riots. The French will throw some money at this but I doubt that will stop the discrimination and bad feelings by both sides. The last one or two clauses in the quoted text...I don't know about "new hope" or the rest. It will be interesting to see what happens in France in the next year or so on this issue.