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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 09:54 PM
Original message
Strengthening Israeli ties (Hillary Clinton trip)
Sen. Clinton plans trip for anniversary of Rabin assassination, aiming to erase any doubts about loyalty.

WASHINGTON -- Six years ago this week, Hillary Rodham Clinton sat quietly alongside Suha Arafat in the West Bank town of Ramallah as the Palestinian first lady accused Israelis of poisoning her people with toxic tear gas and contaminated water.

During the 2000 campaign, Clinton's GOP opponents circulated the photo of the New York Democrat smooching Arafat's cheek. The tactic didn't work: Most of New York's 1.7 million Jewish voters backed the former first lady anyway.

This weekend, the senator (with her husband in tow) travels back to Israel to talk Mideast peace with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, to mark the 10th anniversary of the assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and to erase any lingering doubts back home about Clinton's commitment to the Jewish state.

more
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usclin1109,0,5649027.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

Interesting timing. I think there will be much more of this sort of thing for her, and I think it makes her look bad.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ariel's da man, doin' the best he can...to make the world a better place.
:beer:
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Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You're joking, right?
It's hard to tell sometimes.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Well, I'm not being DEADLY serious. But basically I mean every word.
Think of it as a corrective to the usual rantings.
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Mend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. reading this is like drinking ipecac.....eom
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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. How does this make her look bad?
I don't get it. :shrug:
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Me neither. I'm not a Hillary fan, but this RRRAWWWWKSSS!!!
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. You MUST be joking! We are doing the war bidding of the monster Sharon
and you seem to think this is a good thing. Got a kid to donate to the wars Israel wants us to fight for them in Syria and Iran?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Ariel's not here to cause no trouble.
Edited on Tue Nov-08-05 11:27 PM by Jim Sagle
He's just here to do the Peace Fence Shuffle. :hippie:
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Peace Fence Shuffle/ Apartheid Wall Boogie...
A matter of perspective, I suppose.
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funnymanpants Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. No, not really
When the Hague rules the wall is blatantly illegal, I would argue it is not a matter or perspective, no more than, say, the ethnic cleansing petetrated against Native Americans. The world has ruled, justice has spoken.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thanks for the voice of reason...
I'm not sure if the poster I replied to is serious, or is yanking chains. :shrug:
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funnymanpants Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. He is serious
Jim Sagle often posts these types of remarks, provocative, and lacking in sensitivity and thought.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. It's more a matter of twisted, upside down morality.
The Hague disgraced itself.
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funnymanpants Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Your saying so doesn't make it truth
Please be specific.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. How so?
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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
52. Most egregious
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 11:55 AM by eyl
were the ICJ's finding that Israel has no right of self defense against Palestinian terrorism (and the Court reached that conclusion by a rather curious reinterpretation of the UN Charter) and its dismissal of Israeli claims of necessity without so much as an explanation, much less discussion. There were other problems with the decision as well.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. No, a matter of self-defense. And by the way,
self-defense is NOT apartheid.

Check it out.
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funnymanpants Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. No
I have checked it out. So has the Hague, and it found the fence violated international law.

If Israel built the fence on its own land, it would be self defense. When it builds it on other peoples' land and confiscates that land, it is land theft.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Just payment for attacks on civilians.
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funnymanpants Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Which attacks?
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 12:11 AM by funnymanpants
Do you mean the ones committed against Palestinian civilians by Israel soldiers and documented by every human rights group who has examined the region?
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
55.  These kinds of attacks against Israeli civilians
Remember this from 2 wks ago?

"HADERA, Israel, Oct. 26 -- A suicide bomber from the Palestinian group Islamic Jihad blew himself up Wednesday amid a row of market stalls in this coastal city, killing at least five Israelis and wounding more than two dozen others." snip

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/26/AR2005102600687.html
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Israeli civilians.
What about the Palestinian civilians the IDF kills?
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
45. Where did you check it out -- on a blog.
Try something real, like Louis Henkin, International Law: Cases and Materials (American Casebook) - a little bit better the Wikipedia or some blog -- especially if you are going accuse somebody of violating international humanitarian law.
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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
53. Since the ICJ found
that Israel has no right of self defense against PAlestinian terrorism, what difference does it make (see post 52)
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
54. Not quite
Go back to your books--





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minkyboodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
35. same catch phrase
way to keep it consistent.... ughh
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funnymanpants Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. agree
Why is this allowed? It is always the same provocative, insensitive language that would not be allowed if the conflict were in any other region. But DU allows this incendiary rhetoric, which just causes people to respond in kind until the thread is closed down, so that no reasonable discussion on the issue can take place.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. What a surprise
:puke:
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. "aiming to erase any doubts about loyalty"
AIPAC loves Hillary. AIPAC also loves Condi Rice. Hillary = Condi.



http://www.aipac.org/whatis.cfm
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tatertop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. One more reason why Hillary is a great big ZERO
ZERO
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
48. Just remember
the same lobbyists (Big Oil, Health Insurance Mafia) that fought her gave us MISTER William Frist and Rick Santorum.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
56. Really? Any Senate Democrats satisfactory to you?
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
46. So what -
hates her -- as do the - the same Health Insurance Mafia that elected MISTER William Frist and Rick Santorum.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
57. APIPAC hates her?
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 08:38 PM by newyorican
You've been going on about APIPAC for some time now.

Did you realize APIPAC = AVENTIS PHARMACEUTICALS INC POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE? Link

Did you realize APIPAC has absolutely nothing to do with oil?

Do you know how many references you've made to APIPAC?

Did you realize how silly this all appears?
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. "aiming to erase any doubts about loyalty"
isn't she, you know, a U.S. Senator?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Just paying respects to a staunch ally.
It's all good. :beer:
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. Rabin was close to the Clintons. Remember, he was killed by an Israeli
who was against the peace process. I think anything to show respect and honor for Rabin who lost his life in the cause for peace is far, far better and different from supporting the terrorist Sharon and the other terrorists in the Likud.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
47. Yes, to honor Rabin is a good thing. (Sharon's a different matter.) eom
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. When is Hillary going to visit Rachel Corrie's parents?
Oh, forgot! Rachel, an American citizen, was murdered by Israeli soldiers while defending a Palestinian doctor's humble abode. That's right. Ordinary Americans and indigenous people don't count in Hillary's eyes.
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tatertop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Can you say Rachel Corrie around here?
Now there is a hero.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. You can, but we've heard it all before.
:boring:
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. and Palestinian terrorism? tres passe
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Facts on the ground prove otherwise. In French OR English.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
49. How about Ruthie
killed by terrorist as she stepped out of a bridal gown store in Tel Aviv.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. Not surprising...
To attend the celebration of Rabin, no problem...

To talk peace with Sharon, fruitless...

Anyway, talking is better than not talking...
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. So which war will she be shilling now...Syria or Iran?
Sharon has ZERO interest in peace in the Middle East...he wants to own the Middle East.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. She's waiting for Sharon to call with the "Regime du Jour"....
Edited on Tue Nov-08-05 11:39 PM by madeline_con
So she'll know who we're supposed to attack next.

edited for speeling
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
41. got a link?
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funnymanpants Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hillary's stance ridiculous
The article states:

"She still wants to be identified as a champion of peace, which is why she's meeting Sharon, but this is an election year and her first priority is to announce allegiance to Israel," he said.

Sharon, who continues to defy international law and illegally steal Palestinian land, is no more a man of peace than former president and Indian killer Andrew Jackson.
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DoctorGonzo Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
40. I agree to a point
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 12:28 AM by DoctorGonzo
Sharon continues to illegally occupy Palestinian land. I think they should pull all the West Bank Israeli settlements out and then build walls around the West Bank and Gaza and set up check-points. This will allow for proper safety for Israelis and the good Palestinians who want peace can come through the border crossings and go into Israel to work.
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funnymanpants Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. But Sharon is doing the opposite
Sharon is building more illegal settlements in the occupied territories, so the chance of his following your plan are pretty much zero.

I personally favor a bi-national state, since the settlements make a Palestinian state impossible.
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DoctorGonzo Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. Sharon's actions:
"Sharon is building more illegal settlements in the occupied territories, so the chance of his following your plan are pretty much zero."

While I would love to see him follow through with the plan, it's not practical in political practice. If he follows through Netanyahu will overthrow him from his leadership position. Sharon is walking a VERY thin line at the moment as he has been getting death threats from both sides. It will take time but the Jews will eventually pull out of the West Bank.

"I personally favor a bi-national state, since the settlements make a Palestinian state impossible."

A bi-national state would never work. The thing about Israelis(and Europeans) is that they HAVE to maintain their ethnic identity to remain a society. The Palestinians need their own land in the West Bank and should be given that as an independent state. That will help solve both sides' problems regarding this stupid intifada.

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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. And he also pulled Israeli settlers out of Gaza not all that
long ago
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DoctorGonzo Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
38. I think it's just a ploy
She's just trying to solidify her Jewish voting block a little more before the 2006 and 2008 elections.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
39. I think this makes her look good to the voters
"She still wants to be identified as a champion of peace, which is why she's meeting Sharon, but this is an election year and her first priority is to announce allegiance to Israel," he said."

"Most of New York's 1.7 million Jewish voters backed the former first lady anyway."



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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
44. The problem is not Israel, Jews, Zionists, Likudniks---
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 12:59 AM by Coastie for Truth
it is the Texas Mafia (TexacoChevron, ExxonMobil, Oxy, PhillipsConoco, Shell, BPAmoco, Halliburton, Kellog-Brown&Root, Carlyle Group, etc.) + their lobbying arms, and - that want to see us ever more dependent on imported oil, that fight toughening "Corporate Average Fuel Economy - CAFE" Standards, that deny that our massive burning of hydrocarbons is "a" cause of global warming, that even deny global warming, that deny the issue of "peak oil", and that are prepared to send our kids to die in foreign wars for OIL .

The Texas Mafia are the real backers of - real all one hundred plus of their Adobe Acrobat Files -- when you get past William Kristol's wet dreams and mental masturbation -- it's all about the US projecting military power to control the oil spigot.

Disagree with me -- I have a blog - where I discuss petroleum politics - and I have over 30 years in various technical, professional, scientific, managerial, academic, and entrepreneurial aspects of the alternative, renewable, and green energy industry. It's all about OIL . and fat butt soccer moms driving their spoiled suburban kids around in Hummers. And American kids are dying - and Iraqi kids are dying - for the fuel for those Hummers.

==================================================

Hillary and Harris Wofford were the only ones to really go to the mat about our totally broken health care system - remember Insurance Lobbyist Karen Ignagni and the "Harriet and Louise" infomercials - remember the gazillions the Insyrnce Mafia spent to defame Hillary and to defeat Wofford (and replace him with Rick Santorum).
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DoctorGonzo Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. Yes, but PNAC isn't the only problem.....
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 11:22 AM by DoctorGonzo
neocons and Likudniks are currently redrawing the Middle Eastern map with the Iraq invasion(which will eventually lead to civil war) and their non-stop sabre rattling at Syria and Iran. We can't invade Iran or Syria, it would cost too much and we would be paying double again if not triple what we're paying for gasoline right now. And that's just over the pinch in oil supply. That's not even counting inflation. It would kill economic growth and we would have to go even further into debt to pay off the bills for the war.

That's why I fear the Likudniks/neocons so much. They're nuts. Even James Baker had a name for them: "the crazies."(or at least according to a Rolling Stone article I read)
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
58. APIPAC...
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 08:46 PM by newyorican
has nothing to do with oil.

APIPAC = AVENTIS PHARMACEUTICALS INC POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE

Did you pick that up on some blog?


Translation: D'oh!
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Thank you Doc
You were so kind as to ask "Did you pick that up on some blog?" and I will honestly tell you -- I picked it up from working in the energy industry as a government regulator, a working engineer, a grad student, a TA, an adjunct, a manager, a senior professional, an executive, and an entrpreneur.


American Petroleum Institute
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. You're welcome...
You should be flattered.

BTW, no doctorate, nor any plans to acquire one. I stopped at BSEE and MBA.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. MBA - that explains a lot.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Here is a link to their PAC


Links and Information
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About this site
America works best when Americans vote. But the percentage of eligible voters who cast their ballots continues to decline election after election. According to a study by Northwestern University's Medill School of Journalism, 23 million Americans contacted an elected official over a two year period, but didn't bother to go vote! We think something needs to be done.

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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. I know what API is...
but they are not a PAC. They are exactly what they say they are, the American Petroleum Institute. They belong to "pro-business" BIPAC and some other right wing organizations.

About BIPAC

API affiliation with Right Wing Orgs
ALEC has over three hundred corporate sponsors. Some corporations and trade groups that have strong ties to ALEC include: Enron, American Nuclear Energy Council, American Petroleum Institute, Amoco, Chevron, Coors Brewing Company, Shell, Texaco, Union Pacific Railroad, Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America, Phillip Morris, R.J. Reynolds Tobacco, others.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. They conduct lobbying operations -- that's a PAC.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Political Action Committee
Edited on Wed Nov-09-05 09:50 PM by newyorican
Dictionary
A committee formed by business, labor, or other special-interest groups to raise money and make contributions to the campaigns of political candidates whom they support.

Encyclopedia
U.S. organization formed by a corporation, labor union, or association to raise money for political activity. Funds can be gathered by voluntary contributions from members, employees, or shareholders. Political action committees were first organized in the 1940s. The Political Action Committee organized by the Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) in 1943 was a model for later PACs. Since the election reform of 1974, which limited individual campaign contributions and set guidelines for PACs, their numbers grew rapidly to more than 4,000 in 1988; they now number about 3,800. Many represent special-interest groups, e.g., the National Rifle Association of America; others represent large conservative or liberal coalitions. Most PACs have directed their contributions toward congressional elections, in which they can contribute up to $5,000 to a candidate for each campaign (primary, runoff, and general election). Some, however, have conducted independent negative campaigns against candidates they oppose. Increased campaign contributions by PACs have raised fears that legislators may accede to pressure from these groups and become less responsive to their constituents. Federal legislation enacted in 2002 forbids attacks on candidates by name immediately before an election.

Source

Note the absence of "lobbying" in all of the above. Primary purpose of PACs is to raise money. That money is used to "support" (bribe) politicians by a select few running the PAC. Professional lobbyists are also bought with the money raised. Biggest difference is those that run PACs tend to believe in something (right or wrong) and lobbyists tend to believe only in the almighty dollar. Both players are part of the same corrupt system, but play different positions in the field.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Technology incubator-venture fund
A significant part of my career was in a very (financially and technologically) aggressive "technology incubator-venture fund" where we did a lot of lobbying, and a lot of equity related transactions - and a lot of kissing Washington based butts.

We had a very high priced lawyer who gave us a list of what not to do and when notto do it - SEC "quiet periods" and "lobbying" and "political contributions." And certain lobbying activities - if done by a business - must be done through a PAC or a registered lobbyist.

That's what our fancy lawyer advised us.

He also held up the API (and its fronts) and the auto industry (with its fronts) as very effective PACs, Washington operators, lobbyists - whatever -- with lots of money.

When you're dealing with the Feds --
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. An effective Voice for Industry

Energy powers the American economy. Readily available supply gives society the freedom to travel, heat their homes and make a living.The energy sector is subject to numerous laws and regulations, ranging from access to energy sources on public lands to the composition of motor fuels. The oil and natural gas industry has a keen interest in public policy debates concerning energy supply, distribution and consumption, and encourages informed decision making at every level of government. In this section, you will find the industry's views on a number of these public policy issues.















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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
67. Before the thread is completely hijacked....
I still believe it is better to talk than not to.

I wish Sharon and Abbas talked everyday.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Too late for that
I am sorry I posted it
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. TRue -
Bill Frist (MD, Harvard Med School, One time Director of Thomas Frist, Sr., MD's and Thomas Frist, Jr. MD's HCA- Health Care America hospital mega chain) and Karen Ignagni (President & Chief Executive Officer of the American Association of Health Plans (AAHP),the largest national trade organization representing health maintenance organizations (HMOs), preferred provider organizations (PPOs), and other similar health plans/. Ms. Ignagni was the creator of the "Harry and Louise Informercials) would love to derail her. And then there's Newton Leroy Gingrich, PhD - "Rove with a PhD"

They still hate her for her health care plan.

Ignagni was a cheerleader - and fund raiser - and contributor - to Rick Santorum's campaign -- to unseat Harrison Wofford. If you recall, Wofford was the strongest backer of Hillary's plan in the Senate.

Yup - the vast right wing conspiracy - Frist, Ignagni, Santorum, Gingrich, Scaife, Koch, Coors, etc.

Hillary was right --- Frist, Ignagni, Santorum, and Gingrich were wrong and in bed with Scaife, Koch, and Coor.

Who's lookin' out for you ? -- it isn't Frist, Ignagni, Santorum, or Gingrich.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Well, they hate her from further back than that
but, yeah.
They still hate her for staff work on the Watergate Hearings she did.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
70. Hillary is a neocon/neoliberal bitch and a warmonger!
If she were to be nominated as the 2008 standard bearer, she would bring about an irreparable split in the Democratic Party and she will bring chaos and defeat at the polls.

There is no 2004 ABB-style coalition in the offing for 2008, and there won't be with Hillary anywhere on the Democratic ticket.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. The biggest attackers of Hillary
are the Mega-Health Insurance and Mega-HMO conspiracy (Ignagni and the Frist Family) and their allies (Santorum, Gingrich, Coburn, Inhofe, Scaife, Coors, Koch, J Patrick Rooney of Golden Rule Insurance).

Anybody that is hated by and that bring together Ignagni, the Frists, Santorum, Gingrich, Coburn, Inhofe, Scaife, Coors, Coor, Koch, and Rooney - is okay. Those are good negative endorsements,.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. Those are the ones on Hillary's right flank
on her left flank, you will find those that hate her for selling out to the corporations, and her stand in support of the war, PATRIOT, globalism, and imperialism.

Hillary will be another "great uniter"!
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. My enemy's enemy is my ally----
I HATE THE VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY

I HATE the Mega-Health Insurance and Mega-HMO conspiracy (Ignagni and the Frist Family) and their allies (Santorum, Gingrich, Coburn, Inhofe, Scaife, Coors, Koch, J Patrick Rooney of Golden Rule Insurance).

I HATE them because they have done more to destroy American jobs by their fascist stand against single payer, universal health care divorced from the employment relationship.
    I HATE them because they have destroyed the once great American automobile industry.


I HATE them because of unintelligent design, their pro-pregnancy/anti-child crap, their stand against stem cell research, their racist attack on the good people of New Orleans (I lived there for two years).

I HATE them because they defeated Harrison Wofford -- and gave us Pope Rickodemus I, Pontifical Archbishop of Wilkins Township Pennsylvania (Pre Apostolic Archbishop name - Rick Santorum).

I HATE them because they are turning MY UNITED STATES OF AMERICAinto the Theocratic Fascist States of America.
    See their playbooks, The 15% Solution: A Political History of American Fascism, 2001-2022 by Jonathan Westminster, and What's the Matter with Kansas? How Conservatives Won the Heart of America by Thomas Frank.

    I shall be marching in MY local Veterans Day Parade in about 4 hours - with the VietNam Veterans Against The War - remember, I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area.


And, I will vote for whoever the Dems nominate---

    I remember 1968 when some self-professed Liberals refused to vote for Hubert Humphrey because he wasn't anti-war enough, early enough - and gave us Trickie Dickie. The VVAW remembers.
      I was charged with violating Article 88 for having a Humphrey sticker on my car--
        ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
        Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
      but I got revenge against my Texan, anti-Semite, anti-black, racist, alcoholic commanding officer
        ART. 138. COMPLAINTS OF WRONGS
        Any member of the armed forces who believes himself wronged by his commanding officer, and who, upon due application to that commanding officer, is refused redress, may complain to any superior commissioned officer, who shall foreword the complaint to the office exercising court- martial jurisdiction over the officer against whom it is made. The officer exercising general court-martial jurisdiction shall examine into the complaint and take proper measures for redressing the wrong complained of; and he shall, as soon as possible, send to the Secretary concerned a true statement of that complaint, with the proceedings thereon.
        ;)
      ---Why get angry when it's so much more fun to get even.


    I remember 2000 when some self professed Liberals refused to vote for Al Gore because "Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee - Doesn't Make No Difference - Cast a Protest Vote for Nader."


If Hillary is nominated - don't blame me when MISTER Frist and "Brother Jebbie" are innaugurated on January 2009.


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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. That's the logic Reagan used to give Saddam WMD
to use them against Iran.

This is also the same logic that was used to give weapons to Osama bin Laden, and others like him, when they were fighting the Marxist government of Afghanistan and its Soviet allies.

Haven't we learned by now that sleeping with Satan is always counterproductive.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Thank you, you have helped me make an important decision
Our local through its affiliated has given me the opportunity to serve my community at a "Radio Shadow" (145.520 MHZ) at the largest HCA Health Care Hospital in the region. That's the Frist family's mega hospital chain.

So, I will help, and provide that vital telecommunications link between the various and sundry first responders. (That's the Coast Guard, Red Cross Volunteer, Fire Fighter indoctrination)

I really look forward to serving my community -
and working with such fine humanitarian physicians and public servants as the Frist family

:sarcasm: :puke:
in times of disasters.

But - I am not doing it for the Frists. I am doing it for my community. I would not want it on my conscience that - even if it means working with the Frists.

Thank you.
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