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anakie Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 04:50 PM
Original message
EU to continue funding Palestinian Authority
The European Union (EU) says it is ready to continue funding the Palestinian Authority (PA) for the time being, despite the election victory of the militant Islamist movement, Hamas.

However, in a statement issued after a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels, it called on Hamas to renounce violence.

Earlier, the Hamas leadership assured the international community that any foreign aid would be spent on salaries and infrastructure, not attacks against Israel.

.....

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh says every cent of foreign aid will be spent on government salaries, infrastructure and the day-to-day needs of about three million Palestinians, and not used for violence against Israel.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200601/s1558432.htm


once again it appears that Europe is the voice of reason in dealing with ME politics. Of course your mob will not believe Hamas the same way they don't/won't believe Iran when they say they are not developing the bomb.

Democracy is ok only when the results are the ones you want; not what you get.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hamas recognizes its needs
Which is a good thing - but they haven't formed a new government yet and we'll see if they don't renounce terror tactics.
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tatertop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you EU. You rawk!
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terry4kerry Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It is crazy to support any form of terrorism!
I might detest Bush and his policies, but on this one I think it is crazy that the EU would give money to a terrorist organization. Hamas has been known to blow up buildings, and kill innocent people. This group is no better than Bin Laden and his crew, and it is extremely frightening when any country or countries would twist rationale to provide money to an organization even remotely connected to terrorism. Don't forget that Hitler came to power because the citizens believed his sociopathic promise that he could change the way the government was running. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Then you should immediately stop paying taxes. n/t
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Excellent point! How do I sign up? I mean, if health care workers
can start denying providing treatments that go against their beliefs - why not? I conscientiously object to any of my tax dollars going to pay for the Iraq war, CIA, NSA, or FBI covert operations, the DHS and their terrorizing color chart, or any money that is used in the security and maintenance of any property the current junta occupies.

It's not like being a tax payer was my career choice or anything - it's actually a birth defect. :P
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. This isnt supporting terrorism. EOM
Edited on Mon Jan-30-06 11:32 PM by K-W
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. We forced democracy on the ME
Now we don't like the result of their election because they've elected Hamas?
If the West stops giving them aid, another party will step in. Like Iran.......Is that what you want?
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Democracy is a progressive value, correct?
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 02:07 PM by barb162
For those who democratically elect terrorists, I support their right to make a choice but it doesn't mean I have to support the result. Choice brings responsibility. These voters are grownups and they knew their donations couldpossibly dry up if the choice for violence is carried out. We are in a test period now with the EU. The warning has now been clearly given by the Quartet. Depending on what Hamas chooses, well...it's up to Hamas now, isn't it.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. glad to the US being cut out of the deal --> US butt out
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. That is insane. The Palestinians are adults - they democratically vote
in a terrorist group, they lose aid.

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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Agreed. There oughta be some standard of accountability; EU is too soft.
As if Hamas is going to open its books to an EU audit ... not likely, meaning that just like our taxes in the hands of our kindly neocon leadership, EU money will go wherever they want it.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. So we should wait for the oppressed palestinians to elect a perfect govt
Edited on Mon Jan-30-06 10:58 PM by K-W
before giving them the aid they desperately need?

Brilliant plan.

Plenty of nations in this world are run by terrorists and war criminals and recieve all kinds of US aid, some receive US military funding. The palestinians deserve the aid they need even if they choose, like Americans, to vote for parties containing militants and criminals.
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. No - the point is for them to denounce violence so rational negotiations
for peace can take place.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Why is that not required of any other parties involved? EOM
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terry4kerry Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Repressed, but willing to elect terrorists.
That doesn't make it right, and although Bush and his repugs are repulsive they still don't commit the degree of outright hatred of the terrorist acts of Hamas. Yes, the palestinians are repressed but that does not give them the right to blow up other people. When they elect a terrorist organization they are reinforcing the belief that killing is an okay choice to get your way, even when they kill the innocent. This message is generational, and when children learn that killing is okay this concept grows. You'll never know if one day you might be an innocent victim of one of their hate crimes.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. The United States elects terrorists, what exactly is your point?
Hamas is an organization that both contains terrorists and politically represents the Palestinians.

You can keep repeating this fact all day it doesnt change the fact that this is who they chose and they still need aid if we ever want a hope of stopping these problems.

Yes, we all know that there is a cycle of violence in the middle east and you advocate policies that would continue that cycle by further marginalizing palestinians.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Has giving billions in aid stopped terror over the years?
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 03:13 PM by barb162
Take a look at what the EU, the US, etc have been giving. I have some comments on the other parts of your post, but I will refrain at this time. Because the Palestinians need aid, does it in fact make any diff where they get it? China? Iran? Saudis? The UN? Do you think it makes any real difference. Examine the assumptions.
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terry4kerry Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Victims versus choices...
What is your point? Are you saying it is okay to fund an organization with a horrific track record? That this is a better alternative? That because the people of palestine are poor they are allowed to support the killing of innocent people? This is not an issue of marginalizing a population, especially when they choose to vote for terrorist leaders. Sorry, but the victim status goes out the window, especially when they knowingly support assassins and bombers to get their way. There is never an exception for supporting or accepting terrorism.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. You make an excellent point, because the level of corruption has
been so great over the years. Where the hell did those billions in aid go. Maybe the EU this time is going to start looking at what the heck it is they are doing and where the aid really goes (bullets? food? medical care?); same with the US and others. I think the next month as Hamas forms its government will be very telling.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. So the United States, run by war criminals and terrorists
should cut off aid to palestine because they elected terrorists, yah, thats sanity.
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terry4kerry Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. Blending labels together
Seriously, you can strongly disagree with Bush's policies (as I do), but they are not a literal terrorist organization. Using a label or generalized term that is not accurate such as "terrorist", places the credibility and the validity of our comments, opinions and statements in jeopardy. It has given the republicans ammunition to turn around and call us the mad conspirators.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Looks like Condi got a slap down
She went to Europe all full of bear, thinking she could tell everyone else what to do. However, the Europeans, Russians and the rest of the world aren't so impressed anymore. By the afternoon she was much more subdued while she tried to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-30-06 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. But the militant christian group the Republican Party
Edited on Mon Jan-30-06 10:17 PM by K-W
wants to cut funding.
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terry4kerry Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. Thank God, haven't we already made a mess of the mid-east with "funds"
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channa18 Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
19. Freightening.
once again it appears the EU is the voice of reason SPINELESS in dealing with ME politics. Can anyone wih half a brain have not seen this coming ??


Funny how they are able to rationalize their once inviolate stance against dealing with terrorists and yet still find the weasel words to cow-tow to terrorists. Yes, they are quite flexible in that way.

Somewhere Yassin,Rantisi and Araft are laughing their asses off.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. "Government salaries, infrastucture, day-to-day needs".
Meanwhile, many that Hamas was supported will be on the official payroll, and there's the quote that the Hamas militia will form the basis of an army--again, government payroll.

"Government" is a squishy concept, "infrastructure" can mean many things, and "day-to-day needs" are distinguished from "wants" only by the value system.

Money is fungible.

Feed the people and take all their worries upon yourself, tell them how wonderful and honorable they are, and make sure the trains run in time and, in the case of some, and they'd be willing to die for you. Ahem.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
24.  I am struck by your comment in the last line.
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 03:31 PM by barb162
"Democracy is ok only when the results are the ones you want; not what you get."

Somehow (sarcasm?) you appear to be writing that if you recognize the basic inherent and human right to vote (as I do), that you somehow have to go along with the choice of the electorate. Am I correct in my assumption about your conclusion.
Because I agree with your comment until you make the conclusion, which I find false. I am saying democracy is okay period and it is also okay not to support the choices of the democracy.


Does this mean that you support the current Bush, the elder Bush and Reagan administrations? Reagan had huge electoral margins over the Democratic candidates. Hamas has a huge margin over Fatah. DO I have to support Reagan, Bush and Hamas? Was I supposed to support Reagan, Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon, etc., and everyone (including Democrats, the opposition) is supposed to go along.
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