Poll: 68% of Jews would refuse to live in same building as an Arab

Sixty-eight percent of Israeli Jews would refuse to live in the same apartment building as an Israeli Arab, according to the results of an annual poll released Wednesday by the Center for the Struggle Against Racism.

The "Index of Racism Towards Arab Palestinian Citizens of the State of Israel," conducted by Geocartographia, revealed on 26 percent of Jews in Israel would agree to live with Arab neighbors in the same building.

Forty-six percent of Jews would refuse to allow an Arab to visit their home while 50 percent would welcome an Arab visitor. Forty-one percent of Jewish support the segregation of Jews and Arabs in places of recreation and 52 percent of such Jews would oppose such a move.

The inclination toward segregation rises as the income level of the poll respondent drops and also as the level of religious observance rises. Support for segregation between Jews and Arabs is also higher among Jews of Middle Eastern origin as opposed to those of European origin.

"Racism is becoming mainstream. When people talk about transfer or about Arabs as a demographic time-bomb, no one raises their voice against such statements. This is a worrisome phenomenon," Bachar Ouda, director of the Center for the Struggle Against Racism, said on Tuesday. The report covered the year 2005 and the center will, in the future, present monthly and bi-annual polls.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/697458.html

Arab-Israeli leaders hit back after poll shows strong anti-Arab attitudes among Israeli Jews. MK Tibi: Racism became mainstream in Israel long time ago; MK Barakeh: Poll results direct result of racist government policies

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3231156,00.html

<snip>

"The reality of anti-Arab racism has become mainstream in Israel a long time ago, Knesset Member Ahmed Tibi said Wednesday in response to a poll showing strong anti-Arab attitudes among Israeli Jews.

Among the survey's highlights: Half of Israelis do not want an Arab to visit their homes, while 40 percent believe Israel should encourage Arab emigration.

"Racists have a long time ago moved from the street to government benches," Tibi added. "Every anti-Arab phenomenon is accepted with understanding within Israeli society."

"Overall, it pays to be racist in Israel because you don't pay a price for it and you can always explain it away by a security need and a self-defense mechanism," Tibi said."


Rightists to Arabs: Get paid, leave Israel

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3231425,00.html

Posters hung by far-right party Herut in Arab neighborhoods, communities across country call on residents to emigrate from Israel in return for compensations. These fascist racists are the ones who should leave, Arab leaders say

<snip>

"Residents of the Arab neighborhoods in Jaffa leaving home for work Thursday morning were shocked to discover posters hung by the far-right Herut party outside their doors, calling on them to emigrate from Israel in return for compensations.

Similar posters were also hung in Jerusalem and other Arab communities across the country.

"Herut activists are lucky they hung the posters like thieves at nighttime," former soccer player and resident of the Ajami neighborhood
in Jaffa, Rifat Turk, told Ynet. "Had they tried doing it during the day, our good guys would give them the treatment they deserve, and I'm not sure how they could have gotten away," he added.

While some of the locals responded to the posters with a smile, chairman of the Ajami neighborhood committee Kamal Agbariya was not the least bit amused. "This is pure racism," he told Ynet. "These guys said today what a lot of people thought and think but dare not pronounce. This only proves how racist the Israeli society is," he stated."

I did some searching. The results for a Google search on "the Center for the Struggle Against Racism" resulted in:



Here is what I found for "Bachar Ouda" (the director):



So who is “Bachar Ouda?” Is he the mayor of Tamun, the director of the “Center for the Struggle Against Racism?” Is he dead or alive? Is “Bachar Ouda” the same “Bachar Bani Ouda?’ Why is the picture at “Ha’aretz” an archival photo? Is this all a case of ‘mistaken identity,’ or simply a misspelling of the Arabic name in English (notice in the “Vermonters for a Just Peace in Palestine/Israel” article they refer to him as “Bakher Ouda” and not “Bachar Ouda”


What about "Geocartographia?" Well, they are a real group. They are:



Hopefully, someone can contact them (they are still building that part of the site) in Israel and see if they did conduct this study and what the methods and questions were.

I've got absolutely no doubt at all that this report exists, so if you want to contact them and voice yr concerns to them, go ahead :)


Violet...

...AMIRA HASS...

Although, they are plenty of other reasons to question the report.

I am guessing if this report had been about Arab-Israelis not wanting to live in the same building as Jews, you would have made a similar request. Hey wait...why wasn't THAT question asked!?

I'm still waiting for one good reason to doubt the report or the integrity of the group that did the poll, or the integrity of the journalists who wrote the article. You do realise that Geocartographia has been carrying out polls for quite a few years, don't you? Also, Amira Hass writes opinion pieces. This is a news report. And just coz you don't like Amira Hass doesn't mean the integrity of journalists at Ha'aretz should be doubted...

Violet...

...I know it troubles you...the fact that I might be right...that this report might be biased (even if from an Israeli source). Can you rectify any of ny concerns?

As for Hass, THANK YOU for pointing out her SHIT (SHITE) is OPINION!

And to be honest, I'm still to see you voice a concern about the article that makes sense, so I'm not at all sure what you think yr right about. I'm finding this response to a poll on racist attitudes towards Israeli-Arabs to be a bit disconcerting, as I've never seen you react in a similar way when it comes to reports on antisemitism...

Um, I thought everyone already knew the difference between opinion pieces and news articles, so can you explain what Amira Hass has to do with the integrity of the Ha'aretz journalists who wrote this article? And of course it's merely yr OPINION that she writes shit, and I'm hoping I won't have to point out the difference between our opinions and opinion pieces written by experienced journalists :)

Violet...

:P

n/t

..and why someone so fixated on seeing it wouldn't go and track it down themselves.

Violet...

...have you?!

That's not making much sense to me. Maybe now you've got the report you'd like to share it with everyone here? And maybe you'd like to discuss it's findings?

Violet...

...what have been your results?

You said you tracked down the report. There's things in reports called sentences that tend to contain heaps of information. Could you share what the report said with everyone here?

bta, are you disputing that there's racist attitudes towards Israeli-Arabs within the Israeli population? And do you have something other than opinion to back it up with?

Violet...

I looked, and looked, and looked....and found NOTHING. I can't find the report. I can't find any of the questions asked. I can't find the name of the "center" reporting this. I can't find anything on the "director," other than reports of his death (or someone with his name, which is always a possibility).

vc, I don't ever recall disputing there were racist attitudes. False assumption on your part.

I've never come across anyone who tells me they've tracked down something and then when asked what whatever it was they tracked down said say they tracked it down but didn't find it. My experience has been that when not able to find something people usually say 'I'm trying to track it down but I haven't located it yet.'

I didn't make a false assumption - I asked a question, which was whether you were disputing there were racist attitudes towards Israeli-Arabs in Israel...

Violet...

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even Bernard Weiner in a Crisis Papers paper, that DU Admin chose to publish in DU, apparently implied as such.

a suspect source? Or why amira hass, an Israeli Jew, is so hated among so many posters here?

Does that allow for the fact that many reasonable people don't think so???

Just wondering.

After all, the method of argument used is quite, how shall we say, leading...

dissenter is apt to hear cries of disgust, expletives being delivered, hate lists cited. Even the newspaper that sometimes prints her words is tainted for some (they would even question the weather report, maybe). So there is no doubt that there are some people posting on DU who hate at least some Jews. Ironically, it sometimes comes from those who would support Israeli policies.

...their supporters are the ones we fear the most.

"Many reasonable people" is lawyer and economist short hand for "It is reasonable to think "A" and to think "Inverse A"

It is entirely reasonable, for example, to agree with Uri Avnery on most things but not all (he is really charming and articulate and witty - I truly enjoyed the evening I spent in his company). Same thing with Shulamit Aloni (My cousin in Jerusalem has designated Shulamit as an "Honorary Aunt").

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because the newspaper that publishes it also prints a column by Jewish Israeli dissenter who you know little about. She has nothing to do with the study.

I don't quite get the logic there.

I don't question the study because of the newspaper in which it was printed. I pointed out some inconsistencies and asked for a link to the report (or even the group reporting). I don't doubt the report because the paper employs Israeli dissenters. However, the fact that it does allow opinion pieces by clearly anti-Israeli writers, does give me pause.

BTW, how do you know what I know about Hass? You make a declarative statement; one that is your opinion, yet you state as fact. You continue with a "strawman" that she has nothing to do with the study. I never said she did! My response, using her name, was why I might question the validity of reporters to the source and where it was published, not the story. Though, it would not be surprising, IMO, that the paper would use "tainted" sources and reporters.

First, you state that she is "anti-Israeli". That would NOT be how she describes herself, but how you describe her. I think she would very much disagree with your characterization. I would disagree with you if you described me like that, too, btw.

What basis does that come from? Because Amira does not endorse the policies of the Israeli government? In the same sense that if one does not endorse the policies of the US government, then one is "anti-American"? Like when the Washington Post (yesterday) did an interview with Noam Chomsky (who some see as "anti-American", like some see John Conyers is anti-American because he says the President broke the laws, and actually wants him tried, even during "wartime"), its poll that shows that most of the USA does not trust Bush is thrown into doubt?

Second, you suggested in another thread she "go live in Gaza" then, and seemed unaware that she had indeed lived in gaza, for a considerable amount of time.

I will grant you that it is merely my opinion that you don't know too much about Amira Hass, but that is what i based it on. Look, its no big deal to not to know much about a specific reporter. Many Israeli reporters i do not know about. Many Palestinian reporters I do not know, and may only learn of their work after they are killed in Iraq by US forces or in Palestine by Israeli troops. I never heard of James Miller from Britain until after he was killed.

Poll: Israeli Jews shun Arabs

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3231048,00.html

And here:

40% of Jewish Israelis Want to Encourage Arabs to Leave

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=100663

"Bachar Ouda, director of the Center for the Struggle Against Racism" as posted in Ha'aretz?

Or is it as YNet calls it "The Center for Combating Racism" led by "Bakher ouda?"

Or maybe it is "Bakr Awawda," the director of "the Center Against Racism," as per the Palestine Monitor?

Or, is YNet's claim that "The figures come from the poll comprising 500 people, selected from the adult population by the Geocartographia Institute."

Or is Arutz Sheva's report that "The Center released its first report on Wednesday, reporting the poll was conducted by the Geocartography Institute, polling 480 Jews 18 and older, asking questions regarding their position vis-א-vis Israeli Arabs." correct?

YNet, "On another front, 18 percent of respondents said they feel intense hatred for Arab citizens of the country."

Ha'aretz, "Eighteen percent of Jews said they feel hate when hearing Arabic speakers."

There seems to be some problems with the number of the sample size, the name of the group reporting, and the name of the director of said group. Also, the "data" seems to have multiple interpretations. I simply want to see what questions were asked.

This is also problematic, "The index, edited by Ouda and attorney Ala Khaider, surveys racially-motivated incidents that took place during 2005 and examines the attitudes of Israeli Jews toward Israeli Arabs." (per Ha'aretz" The "poll," also known as the "Index of Racism Towards Arab Palestinian Citizens of the State of Israel," was conducted by one group, and edited by another "group." Were those surveyed the same ones responsible for the racist incidents? I would hope not.

Also of interest, one of the authors of the original post, Eli Ashkenazi, also wrote another piece, Budget for cancer mapping doesn't extend to Arab sector. In that piece, he refers to "Director of the Center Against Racism, Bakr Awawda..." yet in the OP, it is "Bachar Ouda, director of the Center for the Struggle Against Racism." How could a journalist write about the same group and director, yet in two different pieces, give two different names to both?

Is this a translation problem? Translating non-Roman languages into something such as English can produce different spellings of a name.

To be clear, I am not saying the "poll" doesn't exist. I am saying I want to see it! I am not saying "Bachar Ouda, director of the Center for the Struggle Against Racism," don't exist, but it would be helpful to know who he is and what the center is (since it is not on the web, at least I haven't found it....maybe they only have an Arabic site (someone reading Arabic can check)).

It makes it sound as if 68% of Jews WORLDWIDE would refuse to live in the same building as an Arab.

I posted the headline that Ha'aretz had. I can't 'fix' headlines coz the rules state clearly that you've got to use the headline of the article that's being posted. If you have a problem with that, tell Ha'aretz to change their headline...

Violet...

LOL! Violet's got more credibility in her little finger than you, who try to bully posters into breaking the rules just because you don't like the title of an article, ever will.

That was good for a laugh- I hope your crown or tiara didn't get cockeyed when you beat on the keyboard in frustration. Truly! :rofl:

PB

She shot her credibility with me by not putting Ha'aretz as a qualifier on the headline.
I find your post both amusing and ironic considering Violet's "defense" was that it was forum rules.

If you hadn't noticed personal attacks on credibilty based on post counts is also a forum no-no.


So laugh it up! I could care less.

...for it. I might get an answering service if I were you, I'd hate to think you'd be wasting your life waiting for the call.

PB

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Does that mean you think someone who posts an article about a study on antisemitism in Canada *hates* Canada? It must, or there's different standards at play...

Violet...

...then you might have a logical comparison.

Why on earth does there not being a C/A forum (whatever that's supposed to mean) make a difference? I saw a thread on the very thing I mentioned in LBN tonight. It's a spot on and very logical comparison, bta...

Violet...

To give this any effing credibility is typical of the racism of "some" self-styled Progressives and is exactly what Bernard Weiner () wrote about and had published in DU's Tuesday morning crisis papers.

To anyone who has gone beyond "Statistics for Dummies" or "Schaums Statistics" -- even GeoCartographia's web site is self serving double talk.

The GeoCartographia Research Institute

The GeoCartographia Research Institute, headed by Prof. Avi Degani and Dr. Rina Degani, an expert in the field of calculating the economic potential of products, undertakes special projects in a wide range of areas. The Institute combines research expertise with wide experience of performing field surveys, and is noted for its research work, high expertise with mathematical models, development of unique tools at an international level, and work with high-level organizations both in Israel and internationally. The Institute also specializes in performing surveys among the specific sectors of population found in Israel.

The market surveys and potential surveys carried out by the Institute include consumer goods, buyers, power centers, real-estate projects, and more. The Institute includes experts in the fields of marketing, economics, business management, statistics, mathematics, performance surveys, geography, information systems, social psychology, sociology, communications, education, urban planning and urban economics.

The Institute has four research departments, and a special survey department which serves all the other departments. This department, the "GeoCartographia Survey Institute," has over the years acquired a reputation for reliability and accuracy, both in economic/commercial and in political forecasting. The Institute's success is the result of its scientific development work in the areas of sampling and segmentation of target populations, a deep understanding of the various population sectors, and a great deal of experience in fields such as consumer behavior, as well as areas of importance socially and nationally.
------------------------------
A clean, unique research methodology

"When you try to find the leading product in the nation," explains Prof. Degani, who is an expert on research methods and socio-economic information strategy, "the best way is to look at the brand value of each product. The 'brand value' of a particular product is created in the public perception over the course of time, and it reflects the public's awareness of a number of key attributes of the product, such as reliability, ease of use, wearability, beauty, and so on, together with other aspects that have been used to form a person's view of the product, by advertising among other means."

Professor Avi Degani is a director of the GeoCartographia Institute, together with Dr. Rina Degani, who specializes in urban economics, market surveys, and calculations of potential. Even though the Institute has a great deal of experience with consumer goods, when they started to perform the surveys that would reveal which is "the best" product, according to the perception of the Israeli public, the directors of the Institute discovered that they would have to develop a unique research methodology in order to answer the question. To this end, Dr. Rina Degani developed a system in which each category is tested in two stages.

In the first stage, a survey is carried out among 500 interviewees, who are asked, in an open question, to give names of products, brands, companies, and services that they know, from among the categories surveyed. From the names they list, between three and seven brands in each category are identified as leading brands according to public opinion, on the basis of the feedback received.

In the second stage, a representative sample of between 500 and 1000 people are interviewed. They are asked to indicate, from among the products listed as "leading" by the people in the first stage, which product or service is "the best" in its category.

Each survey is performed on a representative, national sample of the adult Jewish population (aged 18 and over) in Israel. The interviews are carried out by phone, in the afternoon and evening, from the computerized interviewing center of GeoCartographia. Every category is surveyed using a sample of 1000 participants, which enables us to achieve a sampling error of 3% at a 95% significance level. "In this type of survey, which addresses the brand value of every product or service," explains Prof. Degani, "there is no need to pose concrete questions. We don't ask the people interviewed, 'why do you think it's the best product?' The brand value is a kind of product summary in the person's head, and it sums up all the objective and subjective factors, fixes his awareness of product preferences and their relative positions, and itself determines which of them he perceives to be 'the best'."

"The questions we asked for 'The Test of the Nation' were intended to retrieve, reveal and rank the 'brand value' of the various products, brands and services; and the cleanest possible way to do that is the two-stage method, when in the first stage we discover what brands the public thinks of when given a completely open and unaided query, and only later, after considering how frequently each product was mentioned, do we move to the second stage, which tries to rank the leading brands as specifically as possible. This is a completely clean research methodology, with no deviations."

Other methods used in the surveys include satisfaction surveys. In these we ask every interviewee to rank from 1 to 10 his level of satisfaction with a particular product that he owns. In this way we can discover which is the product that those who bought it and use it are most highly satisfied with.

Lately we have begun targeted surveys among subsectors of the population, such as: young people, mothers of babies, company decision-makers, and others.
-------------------------------------------
The surveys: research, methods, implementation

The GeoCartographia Institute, under the direction of Dr. Rina Degani and Professor Avi Degani, performs the surveys for "The Test of the Nation." The methodology developed by the Institute's directors for our first survey now has a proven track record, and was used this time too: every survey is performed as a national, representative sample of the adult Jewish population, and the aim is to establish, in each category, which product or service is perceived by this population to be "the best." "This time too, as in previous surveys," says Prof. Avi Degani, "we got very clean results from a research point of view."

I had Prof David S. McKinney and Professor Morris de Groot for two semesters of Statistics, and I am a "doc" -- and this is junk science -- as phony as "Intelligent Design" and the "Denial of Global Warming."

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I'm not so sure I'd be waving fingers at people over "bad scholarship" if I were you.

Why do you insist on using such a broad brush when accusing people or entire organizations of racism?

PB

I've read the Bernard Weiner article and he is not saying that at all. If someone thinks that a poll that shows that some Israeli-Jews hold racist attitudes towards Israeli-Arabs is racist, then they must also think that any polls or articles pointing out there are racist attitudes in any other group is racist as well...

Can you explain why you think GeoCartographia is 'self-serving' and lacking in credibility, apart from claiming that yr a "doc"? It's just that GeoCartographia have conducted many polls on many different issues, and their About Us information differs little from that of Morgan Gallup which is a respected and credible pollster over here. So I'm seeing nothing here apart from an attack on the integrity of GeoCartographia with nothing to back it up and based only on the dislike of the results of one poll...


Violet...

n/t

· Poll reveals widespread anti-Arab sentiment
· Academics warn of racism 'becoming mainstream'

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
Friday March 24, 2006
The Guardian

A poll of attitudes among Israel's Jews towards their country's Arab citizens has exposed widespread racism, with large numbers favouring segregation and policies to encourage Arabs to leave the country.

The poll found that more than two-thirds of Jews would refuse to live in the same building as an Arab. Nearly half would not allow an Arab in their home and 41% want segregation of entertainment facilities.

The survey also found 40% of Israel's Jews believe "the state needs to support the emigration of Arab citizens", a policy advocated by some far-right parties in the run-up to next week's general election.

The poll was conducted by a respected Israeli organisation, Geocartographia, for the Centre for the Struggle Against Racism, founded by Arab-Israeli academics. "Racism is becoming mainstream," said the centre's director, Bachar Ouda. "When people talk about transfer or about Arabs as a demographic timebomb no one raises their voice against such statements.

"This is a worrisome phenomenon. The time has arrived for the Jewish population, who experienced what racism is on its flesh, to wake up and change its way."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1738508,00.html

A red Christian cross and the red Crescent are used by members of the International Red Cross, yet Israel couldn't use the Red Star of David if it wanted Mogen David Adom to become member of International Red Cross. A stupid looking red diamond had to be used instead!

So if we are going to speak of intolerance and racism, we better start on square one and begin with the hatred and intolerance that have characterized the way the Arab nations have treated Israel from day one!

Indie, you must have missed the many threads and posts that did discuss the Red Cross issue*, because it's been discussed heaps here in the past. Seeing as how this thread is about the results of a poll that revealed levels of racism within the Israeli-Jewish population towards Israeli-Arabs, how about we discuss that now? I can even get the ball rolling seeing as how I've seen little else in this thread but attempts to divert attention from what I originally posted...

I think the attitudes that have come out in this poll reflect what happens when any state allows political parties with racist platforms to be legitimised and be included in govt coalitions. This is also a reflection of how Israeli-Arabs have always been viewed as some fifth column and not real Israelis. The results of this poll are yet another sign that the I/P conflict has to come to a fair and just resolution, and that's one that's fair and just for both Israelis and Palestinians, and not just for Israelis, as some here seem to think it should be...

Violet...

* forgot to add that I like the red diamond and hate religious symbols, which means I think the diamond should replace the cross and the crescent. Does that make me a racist?

Like how many YEARS can people argue over the Star of David being used!

Back to this poll, though, without seeing the actual poll, who ( age, sex, etc) was questioned, without seeing the actual poll, sample size, methodology, quantitative analysis, etc., there is no way to know if the poll was valid. For all we know the pollsters could have questioned 20 men living in one neighborhood.

This reminds me of the summary of an Egyptian film from last year "Al Safara Fil Amara" where an Egyptian man returns to his Cairo apt. after working in Dubai and is shocked, SHOCKED, to find the Israeli ambassador living next door. I understand there are some ("hilarious"?) scenes where he meets the ambassador in an elevator and he can't believe, is horrified, he is standing in the same space with a Jew.

"Shareef Khairy (Adil Emam) is a Egyptian petroleum engineer who has been living in Dubai for the last 25 years and ends up moving back to his apartment in Egypt after he sleeps with one of his boss' wives. Now back in Cairo, he finds his old apartment building deserted as the Israeli Embassy in Cairo is now in the adjacent building. With the inability to sell his apartment, Shareef ends up filing a lawsuit against the Israeli Embassy"

http://movies.theemiratesnetwork.com/synopses.php?mv=849

--Back to this poll, though, without seeing the actual poll, who ( age, sex, etc) was questioned, without seeing the actual poll, sample size, methodology, quantitative analysis, etc., there is no way to know if the poll was valid. For all we know the pollsters could have questioned 20 men living in one neighborhood.--

The poll was serious enough to be used by Haaretz, & the Guardian, it seems clear to me that
such newspapers wouldn't use a poll by a, quote, 'respected Israeli organisation, Geocartographia,'
if they didn't know that it was valid. The attitude that this poll might not be valid, seems to me
to be a bit on the prejudiced side. It's clearly a valid poll, as it was conducted by a respected
Israeli organisation, Geocartographia, & it appears in a respected Israeli newspaper, Haaretz.
Is there some reason why a poll that's conducted by a respected Israeli organsiation should not
be valid?

There were none of those attempts to attack the validity of a poll or interest in reading the actual poll when it came to this one a while ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x193167

Violet...

Since the Uk Sunday Telegraph is a Tory-supporting paper, & any polls they'd commission, or
publish would tend to support that rw view of the World that the Uk Sunday Telegraph has.
They'd only publish the parts of the poll that fits with that Conservative attitude.

What % of arabs in Gaza would want to live with Israelis?