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Jimmy Carter, Hamas & the Palestinians: Punishing the Innocent is a Crime

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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 01:19 PM
Original message
Jimmy Carter, Hamas & the Palestinians: Punishing the Innocent is a Crime


http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0507-21.htm

Published on Sunday, May 7, 2006 by the International Herald Tribune

Hamas and the Palestinians: Punishing the Innocent is a Crime
by Jimmy Carter

One clear reason for the surprising Hamas victory for legislative seats was that the voters were in despair about prospects for peace. With American acquiescence, the Israelis had avoided any substantive peace talks for more than five years, regardless of who had been chosen to represent the Palestinian side as interlocutor.

The day after his party lost the election, Abbas told me that his own struggling government could not sustain itself financially with their daily lives and economy so severely disrupted, and access from Palestine to Israel and the outside world almost totally restricted. They were already $900 million in debt and had no way to meet the payroll for the following month. The additional restraints imposed on the new government are a planned and deliberate catastrophe for the citizens of the occupied territories, in hopes that Hamas will yield to the economic pressure.

With all their faults, Hamas leaders have continued to honor a temporary cease-fire, or hudna, during the past 18 months, and their spokesman told me that this "can be extended for two, 10 or even 50 years if the Israelis will reciprocate." Although Hamas leaders have refused to recognize the state of Israel while their territory is being occupied, Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh has expressed approval for peace talks between Abbas and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel. He added that if these negotiations result in an agreement that can be accepted by Palestinians, then the Hamas position regarding Israel would be changed.

Regardless of these intricate and long-term political interrelationships, it is unconscionable for Israel, the United States and others under their influence to continue punishing the innocent and already persecuted people of Palestine. The Israelis are withholding approximately $55 million a month in taxes and customs duties that, without dispute, belong to the Palestinians. Although some Arab nations have allocated funds for humanitarian purposes to alleviate human suffering, the U.S. government is threatening the financial existence of any Jordanian or other bank that dares to transfer this assistance into Palestine.

There is no way to predict what will happen in Palestine, but it would be a tragedy for the international community to abandon the hope that a peaceful coexistence of two states in the Holy Land is possible. Like Egypt and all other Arab nations before the Camp David Accords of 1978, and the Palestine Liberation Organization before the Oslo peace agreement of 1993, Hamas has so far refused to recognize the sovereign state of Israel as legitimate, with a right to live in peace. This is a matter of great concern to all of us, and the international community needs to probe for an acceptable way out of this quagmire. There is no doubt that Israelis and Palestinians both want a durable two-state solution, but depriving the people of Palestine of their basic human rights just to punish their elected leaders is not a path to peace.

Former President Jimmy Carter is founder of the Carter Center, a nonprofit organization working for peace and health worldwide.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. What, no replies?
Our President calling it like he sees it and that makes people uncomfortable?
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. A good man and a great American
k & r
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know. Don't ya think that Iran & Saudi Arabia should be antying
up the foreign aid? I mean it is their money that has funded the intifada and all. Shouldn't they have to pony up?

I'm not saying that food aid or emergency aid should not go to Palestinians. Nobody is saying that. But will civilians are being blown up and arms bought.. you would think that iran could perhaps support a school district or two?

Just an idea.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:37 PM
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yeah, that's right
All "those people" can just solve the entire problem by leaving their homes of generations. All "Arabs" are alike, and never mind the Christian ones.

I read some astonishingly stupid things here.



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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yeah, so do I. n/t
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. maybe you forgot the sarcasm smilie
Otherwise your post was indefensible.
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. did you forget
yours?

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I don't know? Do you think that Saudi money and Iranian money should
go towards wahabbisim and non-democratic forms of islam? And towards arms. And to fund the terrorist groups (the ones who fight civilians and blow up kids)? Cause I think that is a little easy for them. If all the world asks of them is nothing. Why are they not funding schools and streets and houses and all the other things that the West has funded? Why not? Perhaps it is their turn? How little did Saudi Arabia give to Tsunami victims? Why is there money all freed up to spend on bombs and military organizations within Palestine but not used, outside of the church, to make Palestinian life better?

And p.s. Hamas leader making noises about negotiations of some sort.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. ...
Edited on Tue May-09-06 03:46 AM by Andromeda
:)
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Nobody is saying the Palestinians are going anywhere.
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. They're certainly not
going towards "peace", are they?
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. So the Palestinians should just all move to Saudi Arabia?
Yeah, that's really a fair way to solve the conflict. :eyes:
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You seem to assume that 'fair'
means giving the Palestinians what they want: the total destruction of Israel as a Jewish state. I beg to disagree.

Still, all in all, 'fair' has nothing to do with it. The Palestinians do not have the power to destroy Israel. So they throw a tantrum hoping to force other people to do it for them.

'Fair' would be them trying to make a life for themselves somewhere, rather than death for themselves and others.:eyes:
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. No, fair would be giving them a state in the West Bank and the Gaza
Edited on Mon May-08-06 03:33 PM by liberalpragmatist
Expulsion from the West Bank and the Gaza would violate every tenet of international law and moral decency. The moment Israel does that they cease to have any moral superiority and go from being a state that has done some questionable things but has legitimate security concerns to being a state that is no better than Nazi Germany.

Thankfully, the vast majority of Israelis don't agree with you. "Transfer" would put you on the far right of the Israeli spectrum. Advocating that makes you no better than those Palestinians who want to "throw the Jews into the sea".

ALSO, while I condemn suicide bombings and terrorist attacks on civilians, does it completely elude you how the Palestinians *MIGHT* have a legitimate grievance? Ben-Gurion himself noted the following:

If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?

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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. But why give a state
to people who are trying to destroy yours?
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Because it's the right thing to do
Edited on Mon May-08-06 04:23 PM by liberalpragmatist
There are moral lines that cannot and should not be crossed. Forced territorial expulsion and expropriation of land is one of those.

By your logic, the Allies should have expelled all Germans from Germany after WWII and wiped the country off the face of the earth, redistributing its land to Russia, Poland, France, and the rest of Europe.

I'd also note that the Palestinians would say the same thing about the Israelis - in fact, that was exactly why the Arabs rejected the 1947 partition plan.

As it works out, you've got a nice, little self-fulfilling prophecy right there; don't give the Palestinians a state because "they're going to destroy Israel," and then when they naturally come to hate Israelis because they're denied the basic rights of free people and then lash out, use that as an excuse to continue not giving them a state? Your attitude is the kind that perpetuates hatred and madness in the world.

Two groups of people share the land; it isn't fair or just for either side to be forced out of their homes. The solution lies in two-states, or if the Israelis are willing (which they aren't), a single, secular democratic state for all.

I could also point out that Palestinians outnumber Israelis by several million, with about 6-7 million in the occupied territories, Jerusalem, and Israel, plus another 2-3 million living as refugees in other parts of the Middle East or the world. What exactly do you propose to do with all of them? Do certain groups of people just not "deserve" a state? If Zionist Jews deserve a state, than why not the indigenous inhabitants of that land in the first place?

Perhaps you need to read this piece from Ha'aretz: The Lie of Victory: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=712621&contrassID=2

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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Not my attitude,
that of the leaders of the Palestinians. Maybe if they would agree to stop the violence, and then do it, they might get something.

Here's the thing. The Palestinians (not all, of course) want to fight a war to expel the Israelis. Then they whine because they keep getting beaten. Go figure.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Nobody is giving them a state. They are in one. And vote that way.
Edited on Mon May-08-06 05:42 PM by applegrove
And by voting - they do not get to decide anything other than who is elected. They don't decide who gives them aid from outside the country.

Really - with Millions of well educated & wealthy Israelis next door - a peace would go well with Palestine into the future. Of course it is up to them. They can let Israel do it all alone and build up that wall. And then ignore them.

Like the person said - people were voting to get rid of corruption. Not for major policy platform of Hamas necessarily.

Of course the innocents should not be penalized with less aid. They also should not have their children strapped into bombs and sent walking towards a gate. But that is the way it is - isn't it?
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. They have a place. They need to negotiate a peace and move on.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Kyyyeah, right.
Those rocks they throw cost a fortune. Isn't the government sitting on a few hundred million in taxes collected from and owed the Palestinians? :shrug:
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. No - Palestinians are poor. And poorer evermore because Israelis
pulled out of the Palestinian economy and live behind a big wall. Palestine has always relied on aid from the west - same as any war torn place.
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Squeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Are you sure?
My understanding is, all that money is in Yasir Arafat's numbered Swiss bank account, and nobody now living knows the number.

That's why Hamas won, IMHO-- the populace was tired of Fatah's corruption, and policy distinctions between them and Hamas were way less important.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 11:14 AM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 11:48 AM
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