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Probe: Hamas bomb, not IDF shell, caused Gaza deaths

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:06 AM
Original message
Probe: Hamas bomb, not IDF shell, caused Gaza deaths
An Israel Defense Forces committee investigating the deaths of seven Palestinians at a Gaza beach last Friday is close to concluding that the IDF was not responsible.

The committee, headed by Major General Meir Kalifi, is due to present its findings to the defense minister and the chief of staff Tuesday night. Its tentative conclusion is that the deaths stemmed from a bomb that Hamas planted on the beach in order to ambush Israeli naval commandos operating in northern Gaza.

Shortly after the incident occurred, the army was leaning toward accepting the assumption that the disaster was caused by an errant Israeli artillery shell. While the
IDF spokesman's initial announcement did not formally accept responsibility, it expressed deep regret for the deaths and announced an end to the artillery fire on Gaza until the incident had been investigated. The foreign media unequivocally blamed Israel for the deaths, and the
Israel media (including Haaretz) tended to do the same.

But as time passed, and more data was amassed, the IDF's assessment changed: Some pieces of data seemed to rule out the possibility that an Israeli shell was responsible, while others bolstered the theory that a Palestinian mine was to blame. The main question now is how unequivocal
Kalifi's conclusion will be.


more...
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. But...but....but THAT would mean the Israelis (gasp!) aren't guilty!!!!!
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yep, the IDF has conclusively exonorated itself.
Move along, nothing to see here.

Incidentally...

Where's the evidence of the rest of the Hamas minefield? Because um, you never plant only one mine. That's not how it's um, done.

And why the hell couldn't they have ruled out a shot from their own artillery MUCH sooner?
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. really?...this is experience talking?
you never plant only one mine. That's not how it's um, done. ......actually since planting mines takes time and if discovered the mine field loses a lot of its worth...a single mine in the right place is enough to stop a mission....used at choke points or other "areas" of worth

try again.....
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Ah yes...
...the Single Mine Theory. :thumbsup:
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. experience?
either in planting or in discovering or "taking the wounded out?....anything?.....
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Amazing how that works.
am i guilty. Let me see. No, I am completely innocent!
Case closed.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Impossible.
Whenever anything bad happens the Israelis are ALWAYS responsible.

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manic expression Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. When the other explanation
is not only utterly preposterous, but originated by the accused, then yes, there is quite the reason to believe Israelis are responsible.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. don't internal investigations
of governments always find either a scapegoat or make sure that the government somehow never takes the blame.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. Their DOD is as good as Bush's in covering up their killings nt
:grr:
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. LOL
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 07:36 AM by Scurrilous
The IDF conducts a probe of itself and *suprise* issues an exoneration.


"The importance of the committee's findings are obviously mitigated by the fact that ultimately, the IDF is being cleared by an IDF investigation."

*snarf*
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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. And the impartial source for the original story was
who?
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. The people being shelled on the beach?
I doubt they were very impartial though. Being blown up will do that to you.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. In the history of US law, the testimony of Black people was not
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 08:50 AM by Tom Joad
often considered of any worth.

Seems like the testimony of Palestinians is not considered much at all for Israel, or even the testimony of internationals, as we have seen in other cases.
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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. You mean the ones who died?
How did they testify, exactly?

All reports I've seen just quote "Palestinian sources" (one article refers to a journalist, but in his account, he assumes the bomb came from the ship - he didn't see it happen).
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. From Saturday:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=127078&mesg_id=127078

"Twelve Palestinian civilians were killed and dozens were injured when artillery shells fired by the Israel Defense Forces exploded on a beach north of the Gaza Strip on Friday, eyewitnesses said."

eye·wit·ness (ī'wĭt'nĭs)
n.
A person who has seen someone or something and can bear witness to the fact.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=127173&mesg_id=127224

"A barrage of Israeli artillery shells rained down on a busy Gaza beach yesterday, killing seven Palestinians, three of them children. The attack put further strain on the 16-month truce between Israel and the governing Hamas movement.

Witnesses described several explosions that also injured dozens of other people who lay on the beach, screaming and pleading for help. Some ran into the sea for fear of more shells hitting the sands at Beit Lahia, in the north of the Gaza strip."


wit·ness (wĭt'nĭs)
n.
One who can give a firsthand account of something seen, heard, or experienced: a witness to the accident.
One who furnishes evidence.







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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Every eyewitness account I've seen detailed
didn't see the actual shells land, only assumes they did.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. Remember the Hurndall in Camouflage story?
The Israeli army is still investigating whether one of its snipers shot Hurndall. But if so, why? An initial army statement said its soldiers identified "a man in his twenties, wearing camouflage uniform and holding a weapon," and fired only after they were fired upon. When pressed by Time, an Israeli military official claimed the army never meant to accuse Hurndall of brandishing a gun. "Either shot at him instead of the gunman, or missed the gunman and hit him," the official said.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901030519-450945,00.html

That would have held up if it weren't for pressure from the Hurndall family, and subsequently from the British govt.

This is just another example of the Israeli propaganda machine at work.


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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I mean, they even had clear photos of that, and they still
lied.
Chutzpah.
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