"O God, destroy the Jews and their supporters"

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=17588

this is from a reportedly MODERATE IMAM

full title that was unable to fit:
"O God, destroy the Jews and their supporters" Moderate Saudi GOVERNMENT TVsermon

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims,
humiliate infidelity and infidels, destroy the enemies of our nation and
religion, and grant safety and prosperity to the country and the other
Islamic countries." He goes on: "O God, support our mujahidin brothers
everywhere. O God, help them score victory over the unjust Jews and
aggressive Zionists in Palestine. O God, destroy the Jews and their
supporters. O God, destroy them, for they are within your power. O God,
disperse them and make them prey for Muslims."

SNIP

Riyadh Kingdom of Saudi Arabic TV2 in Arabic, official television station of
the Saudi Government, at 0935 GMT carries a 24-minute live sermon from the
holy mosque in Medina.



Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims,
humiliate infidelity and infidels, and destroy the aggressive unbelievers. O
God, grant us safety in our homelands and give wisdom to our imams and
leaders." He goes on: "O God, support our brothers in Palestine against the
usurper Jews. O God, deal with the tyrant, unjust, corrupt, and aggressive
Jews. O God, shake the ground under them, instill panic into their hearts,
and make them prey for Muslims."
..................................................

These are some MODERATE IMAMs

"destroy the jews"...."make them PREY"...

not too anti-semitic....those saudi imams are a bundle of
laughs.

There goes the claim that there is very little anti-semitism in the Middle East.

france and lately some british commentary.

"take" he members of the Supreme Court he doesn't like. Just proof there's assholes in every culture.

but, no one calls him a moderate.

there are no "moderate" imams in Saudi Arabia. The only sect of Islam there is Wahhabism, which is the Islamic version of Fundementalism.

Second of all, don't equate the Wahhabis with all Muslims. Sufis are the most liberal sect, and there are plenty of Shias and Sunnis who honor all the people of The Book (Hebrew, Christian, and Muslim). My heavens, the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) had TWO Jewish wives, whom he never tried to convert!

in the Muslim world until Abdul Aziz ibn Saud conquered the modern territory of Saudi Arabia in the 20's 30's. It was the taking of the Hijaz(and therefore control of Mecca and Medina) from the Hashemites, that has given them the ability to get any credibility from the Muslim world at all, that and the huge amounts of cash from oil. Pre Adul Aziz ibn Saud the followers of Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab(18th century) were considered dangerous fanatics by almost all Muslims, not suprising considering how Wahhabis viewed non-Wahhabis.

Patrick Schoeb

Kahane, Lieberman, and countless fundamentalists, both Jewish and Christian, have been guilty of anti-Islamic prejudice.

i'm so disgusted on reading it, i'm going to

hit the alert button on myself.

lol.

Not that I'll get any sort of answer, but I am curious...

Violet...

Lieberman is not a fundamentalist. He condemns anti-muslim bigotry in the name of the war on terrorism. Could you get your facts straight?

Joe Lieberman is not a hate-monger, and he has a very good record on gay rights, women rights. Lieberman's position on the I/P conflict is within the Democratic mainstream.

It was unfair and inaccurate to compare Lieberman to Kahane and the likes of unnamed fundamentalists (such as Rick Santorum and Pat Robertson).

I agree with your characterization of the offending post by jos, SyracuseDemocrat.

I was just looking at your avatar though, and I see that it is Karl Marx. I have read some of his stuff and have discerned that he was an anti-semite. Have you heard this?

Just curious seeing as how I'm a bit of a yokel who's read next to nothing of his stuff....

Violet...

Wasn't he Jewish? or are my facts distorted by some rumor?

One must understand the way religion has been used by the ruling class as an instrument of oppression of the workers. This is why writers such as Marx, Engels, Lenin and others, argued about the separation of church and state. The state must be atheist and religion must remain a private matter as far as the state is concerned.

Marx was Jewish, and he was no anti-semite! If you want anti-semitism, I suggest you check the Southern Baptist Convention and their calls for proselytising Jews. Now, that's anti-semitism!

Socialism and Religion (1905)
V.I. Lenin

Religion is one of the forms of spiritual oppression which everywhere weighs down heavily upon the masses of the people, over burdened by their perpetual work for others, by want and isolation. Impotence of the exploited classes in their struggle against the exploiters just as inevitably gives rise to the belief in a better life after death as impotence of the savage in his battle with nature gives rise to belief in gods, devils, miracles, and the like. Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labor of others are taught by religion to practice charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man.

But a slave who has become conscious of his slavery and has risen to struggle for his emancipation has already half ceased to be a slave. The modern class-conscious worker, reared by large-scale factory industry and enlightened by urban life, contemptuously casts aside religious prejudices, leaves heaven to the priests and bourgeois bigots, and tries to win a better life for himself here on earth. The proletariat of today takes the side of socialism, which enlists science in the battle against the fog of religion, and frees the workers from their belief in life after death by welding them together to fight in the present for a better life on earth.

Religion must be declared a private affair. In these words socialists usually express their attitude towards religion. But the meaning of these words should be accurately defined to prevent any misunderstanding. We demand that religion be held a private affair so far as the state is concerned. But by no means can we consider religion a private affair so far as our Party is concerned. Religion must be of no concern to the state, and religious societies must have no connection with governmental authority. Everyone must be absolutely free to profess any religion he pleases, or no religion whatever, i.e., to be an atheist, which every socialist is, as a rule. Discrimination among citizens on account of their religious convictions is wholly intolerable. Even the bare mention of a citizen's religion in official documents should unquestionably be eliminated. No subsidies should be granted to the established church nor state allowances made to ecclesiastical and religious societies. These should become absolutely free associations of like minded citizens, associations independent of the state. Only the complete fulfillment of these demands can put an end to the shameful and accursed past when the church lived in feudal dependence on the state, and Russian citizens lived in feudal dependence on the established church, when medieval, inquisitorial laws (to this day remaining in our criminal codes and on our statute-books) were in existence and were applied, persecuting men for their belief or disbelief, violating men's consciences, and linking cosy government jobs and government-derived incomes with the dispensation of this or that dope by the established church. Complete separation of Church and State is what the socialist proletariat demands of the modern state and the modern church.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htm

If you really want to see anti-semitism,

MAY YOU COULD LOOK AT WHAT STARTED THIS THREAD

AND ACTUALLY COMMENT ON IT !!

good night.

Our good friends, the Saudis, supposedly have fired 1,000 of their more radical Imams and Sheikhs, the ones who preach
hatred,violence and anti-semitism.

and this is whats left.

You cant make this stuff up.

Boy, it sure seems like the outright expressions of complete and open Arab antisemitism don't get much posting activity. I guess they make some folks uncomfortable.

The world that this imam lives in is the same world Israel lives in each and every day. Much of the Arab world is intent on not just defeating Israel, they seek Israel's destruction. To fail to see the I/P conflict in those terms is to ignore reality.

Stop guessing. I'm way too busy to post in every thread containing articles that aren't even about the I/P conflict and noticing how some folk seem to obsess constantly only about anti-semitism. Personally I'd find anything they say to be more genuine if they were concerned with ALL forms of intolerance. Unfortunately my experience with some folk on the internet is that some of the worst bigotry towards other groups that are also discriminated against comes from those who obsess constantly about anti-semitism...

Violet...

I am against all forms of unfounded hatred -- religious and otherwise. I do reserve the right to hate those who do ill to me or plan it.

I might take that statement seriously. what about Elon, who came to this country to solicite christians to support transfer, and speaks hopefully of a new christian crusade against islam.

I oppose any sort of crusade against ordinary Muslims. The suicide bombers and their ilk are another matter, but most Muslims around the world are law-abiding, good citizens and I have no quarrel with them.

You object to "Arab anti-semitism" rather than simply "anti-semitism". Then you say you don't object to "ordinary Muslims", only suicide bombers. Why is the ethnicity of an anti-semite or suicide bomber even worthy of mention?

It's like saying I don't object to ordinary African-Americans, only the ones that commit crimes and do drugs, but most of them are good.

To ignore the very real religious and ethnic elements of the I/P conflict is to ignore reality.

what?, but when its founded, in your mind, you're all for hate?

Ya, that was king's message.

Same logic as suicide bombers - living in a world of hate.

Using a picture does not provide your intent any camouflage.

Sick

I will leave it at that.

Don't you know that this is justifiable protest against the Israeli Occupation and not anti-Semitism? How dare you throw down the anti-Semite card.

/sarcasm

..if anyone here had ever said this was legitimate protest and NOT anti-semitism....

Violet...

He states out loud what he feels about his percieved enemies in prayer corrupted with hatred for those perceived enemies, while those who would oppose him keep similar thoughts poorly hidden beneath the surface of their words. A match made in *Heaven*, except the prayer urges the destructions of Jews and their supporters. That's not just anti-semitic, it's anti-everything except Muslims. As one of the supporters deserving of destruction mentioned in this prayer, I object to this being classified as anti-semitism.

I don't know how pervasive this is in Islam, but this is corrupting the religion. If it's not checked somehow the entire religion will become viewed as a threat. If it's not pervasive then this is an attempt to demonize a religion with propaganda tactics. Now who would want something like that? :shrug:

When you name one group and call for their destruction and just throw in anybody who supports them, it's still pretty much targeted at the one group.

As for a campaign that tries to "to demonize a religion with propaganda tactics," who needs one? The radical wacko wing of Islam does it well without any help.

I may have been born during the day, but I wasn't born yesterday.

Unless this article links directly to this nutty Imams website then there is indeed a helping hand in the "campaign".

IMRA, MEMRI, HonestyinReporting and (G-D help us) Worldnetdaily never fail to bring world-shaking tid-bits like this to light. When questioned as to motive you get the same wide-eye stare and the shrugging of shoulders and tepid denials.

The good Dr and you could save a lot of time, space and bandwidth if you just put the link to little green nutballs with the headlines of the day.

That there is not a significant Arab population that agrees with these statements?

Nope. Those words don't appear anywhere in my post in anything near that arrangement. Perfectly obvious to anyone with a rudimentary reading comprehension level. Well they do say that repetition is good for slow learners so here, have another go at it (this time in red):

I may have been born during the day, but I wasn't born yesterday.

Unless this article links directly to this nutty Imams website then there is indeed a helping hand in the "campaign".

IMRA, MEMRI, HonestyinReporting and (G-D help us) Worldnetdaily never fail to bring world-shaking tid-bits like this to light. When questioned as to motive you get the same wide-eye stare and the shrugging of shoulders and tepid denials.

The good Dr and you could save a lot of time, space and bandwidth if you just put the link to little green nutballs with the headlines of the day.

Nope, don't see anything about Arab populations or anything like that. But I do see an issue you decided to side-step (rather clumsily). If you're *really* looking for a deeper meaning read the last sentence in the post. Now read it again (that repetition thingy).

Lame Internet posting commentary. You don't like my post so it must be MY reading comprehension. When, in fact, all I did was comment on YOUR post.

Words don't have to appear EXACTLY for meaning to be obvious. You call the moron in question here one of the "nutty Imams" and disregard him as such. However, his statement is one of thousands in the Arab world. Are they all "nutty" or is it part of a general belief in some significant quarters of the Arab world in your opinion.

I'll stipulate that Arabs/Muslims overwhelmingly hate jews. Fire breathing, anti-semitism runs rampant.

What do you propose?

We continue to aid Israel. For another, we continue to push sane Palestinian forces to seek a viable peace. For a third, we roll the dice and stop backing dictators in the Arab world and promote democracy.

but what is "rolling the dice"? I'm for stopping support for dictators *everywhere* and promoting self-rule (with some hopefully healthy democratic advice/guidance).

On the 1st point, I don't agree that aid should continue witout some conditions. The primary condition being that the human rights violations stop and to start to behave like a member of the world commumity rather than a rogue nation (I wish the same for the US). Don't bother me with details about the Palestinians behavior, I don't care, that is Israels problem to resolve or not. I wont waste a thought on telling the Palestinians what to do because they are not in my pocket up to the elbow. (Sorry, Herschel, affinity for Israel doesn't equal "joined at the heart") Lastly, aid should also be conditioned on having a plan that leads to a self-sufficient economy.

On your second point we are close. I think the GOI should be included in this purge of extremists you allude to in this point. That would require a "regime change" in Israel as there has been in the PA and classifying some of the extremist political parties activities as illegal (similar to Hamas, IJ, etc.).

In Summary:

We agree on point one, save I would make it conditional.

We agree on point two, save I would extend the "push" for saner minds on *both* sides of the conflict.

On point three, I agree with the sentiments of not supporting dictators and promoting democratic self-rule. I'm just not clear on what you mean by "roll the dice".

On Edit: Hit the stupid button to soon. One last question.

How do these actions/policies positively effect the anti-semitic anger rampant in the Arab/Muslim world?

(I previously stipulated that point to get to this point)

The good Dr and you could save a lot of time, space and bandwidth if you just put the link to little green nutballs with the headlines of the day.




another-big-attack
anthrax-responsibility
biggest-threat-to-peace
democracy-in-iraq
do-you-believe-arafat
do-you-feel-safer
first-to-blink
how-is-tom-ridge-doing
idiotarian-finals-2002
idiotarian-of-the-year
idiotarian-runoff-2002
israel-military
military-action-iraq
retaliate-against-hamas
sharia-in-europe
shoe-bomber-al-qaeda
trying-ariel-sharon
what-about-johnny
who-do-we-attack-next
who-should-be-tried
will-iran-go-nuclear

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php

This was posted in the anti-Islamic website Little Green Footballs (LGF)back in May.

Here is the discussion:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=6616

LGF has an ongoing Islam-bashing forum called Peaceful Religion Watch in which they take the most outrageous examples of intolerance expressed by Islamic extremists and present them as typical of Muslims and Islam on the whole.

LGF constant anti-Islamic propaganda is on a par with similar racist websites such as the one run by Hamas, the Jewish Defense League, and Pat Robertson's 700 Club (http://cbn.org/).

LGF is currently conducting a campaign supporting the well-known American racist Daniel Pipes, nominated by Bush to the US Institute for Peace:

http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html

Israel bashing, e.g., taking the most right-wing statements and claiming that it is Israel's policy.

As it's a hard cold fact that Israel currently has a hardline right-wing government, how are their policies not policy? Also, I'm sure most people here are very aware of the difference between policy and what any particular member of a government advocates as wanting to be policy....

But even if that were happening and it were 'Israel bashing', it doesn't even come close to the racial hatred and bigotry appearing constantly on Little Green Footballs. That sort of intolerance is totally inexcusable...

Violet...

it's a hard cold fact that Israel currently has a hardline right-wing government

Only to warm, comfortable, secure foreign commenters.

Edited twice to get the spelling right.

Fact: The current Israeli govt is a hardline right-wing govt. There is NO disputing that, though I'm sure you will, and I'll be interested in seeing yr reasons why you don't think Israels govt is right-wing.

that I've answered that before in previous discussions. The present government has left and right-wing parties. I have heard the Likud described as right-wing, but not the present government.

Shinui isn't left. Shinui is center. It supports the seperation of church and state, which I support, as do most Israelis, but that is its only goal. Like Shas, it wants to get into a coalition whenever it can and use that to its advantage.

Shinui is quite left-wing in Israeli politics. After all, everything is relative.

Labor is more left then Shinui (didn't they refuse an offer to join Sharon's coalition?) and so are the Arabic parties.

The right-left continuim cannot really apply to them. they have their own agenda. They usually align with the Labor party, but will choose their own path. For instance they boycotted labor , and as a result Peres lost the election and it went to Netenyahu in '96.

After all, the Greens and the Democrats here don't always align with the Labor Party. I've just read the little bit I could find on the United Arab List and their interest is in strengthening the Arab sector, dismantling of settlements and the creation of an independent Palestinian state....

Violet...

I'm not a specialist in political research, but the whole construct is rather arbitary. Whatever one considers "center" is rather dependent on the historical era and also on the culture.

I know that you in Australia are not technically in the West. You may be West of California, but closer to the Far East. So if West and East can meet, I'll bet Right and Left can also.

In fact, that's what I did hear from teachers back in high school in the 60's. It's actually a circle, not a political straight line.

The Greens are firmly to the left politically, just like they are in the US....

We're referred to as part of the West, not in any geographic way, but because of the fact that we're an advanced democracy with close ties to first Britain and now the US....

I don't think the circle is quite right in portraying the political spectrum, but it's much closer than a straight line. But whatever you want to plonk Sharon's conservative government in, it's going to end up way to the right of whatever line, square, circle, 3-d representation you put it on...

Violet...

The politics of the "Greens", which seems to show up in every democratic nation, including Israel and France, is a little of the standard, and into the new-age conservationist category.

Sharon has been considered as moving to the center since his election as Prime Minister, (the first time) in Israel political analysis, despite the Likud party line and his own reputation.

The current Israeli government is a hardline right-wing government. The Likud party is the senior partner in the current coalition right-wing govt, which is made up of even more extreme right-wing parties and a centrist party. For anyone to claim it's not a right-wing govt is in my opinion just a tad disingenous. Wow. The current govt here is a coalition and what's more the Greens and Independents hold the balance of power in the Senate. Thanks, Gimel! Next time I read that the govt here is a right-wing govt, I'll fire off yr post to the newspaper involved and chide them severely! ;)

Violet...

Whatever is a "Senior Partner"?

Right and hardline right-wing you say? Then why is Sharon trying to get votes from the Labor party to pass the funding bill for the remander of the security fence?

Opponents of funding the fence include Likud MKs Ruhama Avraham, Eli Aflalo, Ayoub Kara and Haim Katz, National Religious Party MK Nissan Slomiansky and National Union MK Michael Nudelman.

<snip>

Coalition head Gideon Sa'ar said Monday that if not enough coalition members support the fence, the government will try to get some Labor MKs to vote for it.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=320922&sw=Coalition

CNN called the Sharon coalition "right-leaning"
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/24/israel.politics.ap/

NYTimes writes:
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon set up a new right-wing governing coalition
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F05E4D81E3CF931A35750C0A9659C8B63

But no one that I've seen calls it a hardline right-wing coalition.

I'm not saying Sharon isn't a right-wing leader, but a hardline right-wing coalition it ain't.

I never said it was a hardline right-wing coalition. I said it was a hardline right-wing government. The coalition has a smallish number of centrist members, but is overwhelmingly made up of Likud and other right-wing parties. Asking Labor to vote on any particular bill doesn't make that any less the case. That sort of thing happens everywhere. In some cases the left-wing party will vote for a particular bill that a right-wing government introduces. Big deal. That's politics....

When I said that Likud was the senior partner in the coalition, I meant that it has by far the largest representation of all the parties in the coalition and the most control. Just the fact that it's a Likud PM, a Likud Vice PM, and a Likud Deputy PM says a lot...

Violet...

Well thanks for expaining that to me about the "Senior partner" . Also, what is the difference in the government and the coalition? The coalition is the current government.

The major religious parties are not considered right or left in Israeli politics. They usually focus on domestic and social issues.

Senior Officials are not necessarily political appointments, and may outlast a specific government. I'm still new to the concept of "Senior Partner" however. I haven't heard that before in Israeli politics. Everyone is senior.

Likud does have a larger representation on the cabinet, but with only 40 MK's in the Knesset, it is still a minority and has a minority of votes.

Why are you still acting as though I spoke of the Likud party being the senior partner in the coalition as though I thought they all ran round with little badges saying 'Senior Partner' on them? I explained to you that it was a figure of speech and yr still carrying on about it. Was there something you didn't understand in my explanation? I can try rewording it if yr confused....

The difference between saying the coalition and the govt is right-wing is that the coalition contains members of a party to the centre politically. The government however has right-wing policies which are heavily influenced by the Likud party. That is not a centrist or left-wing government, no matter how much want to try to twist it...

Violet...

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims,
humiliate infidelity and infidels, and destroy the aggressive unbelievers. O
God, grant us safety in our homelands and give wisdom to our imams and
leaders." He goes on: "O God, support our brothers in Palestine against the
usurper Jews. O God, deal with the tyrant, unjust, corrupt, and aggressive
Jews. O God, shake the ground under them, instill panic into their hearts,
and make them prey for Muslims."

Sounds like the ravings of a madman to me. This is not limited to the Islamic faith. They are everywhere. Hopefully, most are identified and kept under sedation, and anti-psychotic drugs.

if someone followed all the sunny statements made by Ovadia Yosef or someone similar and posted them here.

Wouldn't someone wonder exactly what the message you were trying to get across was?

The point is state approved anti-semitism on STATE

CONTROLLED TELEVSION.

and he gets on STATE CONTROLLED TELEVISION and says all manner of things that should raise people's hair.

I think you miss the point and that's that if you would find it suspicious if someone cherry picked out offensive statements from Rabbi's and posted them all day long I think you would be rightly suspicious that they were working on a blanket smear of Judaism.

You think it's different to do the same thing to Imam's?

oh...so now there state sponsored racist programs in
Israel ??....

is controlled by the State of Israel just like it always has been, that quote I dug up isn't some abberation and Yosef and the rest of the Haredim are on there saying stupid bigoted things, because Israel doesn't yank them off the air instantly does that mean the State of Israel is sponsering hate?

show me where in your referenced article this was
on CH. ONE??

HEY, show me where in your article it was even on tv??

a friend of mine has an international satelite package, it may or may not have been Channel One but I can't imagine they tell the leader of the Shas party he can't talk.

so you have no independant proof.

if you ever do , please post it.

The police probe stems from remarks Yosef made to cheering followers on March 18. He called Education Minister Yossi Sarid "a devil" and "evil" and said "his memory must be blotted out" like that of other historic enemies of the Jews.

His comments were videotaped and broadcast on television.

It's a different incitement to murder, but this one clearly states for you it was on television (as incredible as that proposition apparently is to you) :eyes:

http://www.metimes.com/2K/issue2000-13/reg/rabbis_remarks_could.htm

when he speaks and his utterances become public, a free press and a host of citizens and pundits alike denounce the crap that passes from his lips.

are you an INFIDEL also??

lol

I'm a fucking pervert to boot!:silly:

but I would like to make an observation you will consider.

I watch media from all over the globe, It's a half ass obsession and I love dissecting all the regional politics. It beats the hell out of watching the sad state of American politics and your characterization of mobs of Israeli's disagreeing with what Shas says is just simply not accurate.

There will always be a certain crowd to jump all over him but this has to do with a multi-axis split left/right-religious/secular divide in Israeli politics. There was not widespread condemnation when he referred to Arabs as snakes or called for their destruction with extraworldly aid. He got stomped on hard for saying that Holocaust victims were reincarnated Bad Jews but that's because he crossed the secular right when he said that.

He is not a marginal figure, I don't think he's important either but the reason I brought it up in the first place is that these endless pooring over Arabic publications by MEMRI and the like scanning for "yahoud" and jumping up and down and screaming about what someone is saying about Jews is troubling in it's implication that somehow the entire Arab world is a sick society based on what they can dig up.

Trying one more time to explain this, if there was an organization devoted to pooring over Hebrew text looking for Rabbi's to start up with the intolerance and evil that is the hallmark of fundamentalists the world over I would take a dim view of that effort in the same way, but at the same time I wouldn't recomend sticking one's head in the sand about Christian/Muslim/Jewish fundamentalism and the threat that it represents.

in all its forms.

What pisses me off is every time a Muslim fundie says all Jews should be killed (and Arafat himself has said as much in the past) it gets pooh-poohed. When Arab states (with Theocratic, fundie, right-wing governments) spew vitriol, denounce peace initiatives, or promote policies or laws which are meant to harm Jews, the pro-Israel side hears nothing but a list of all of Israel's transgressions.

It is tiresome and forces those of us who support Eretz Y'Israel into a defensive posture. We are denigrated as Republicans, Freepers, and supporters of genocide and dubbed the "Israel Is Always Right" crowd.

The fact is, MOST of the pro-Israel posters here are against ALL right wing governments and that includes Sharon's (although he is still miles better than Bibi). MOST of the pro-Israel supporters realize and recognize that most if not all the settlements need to go post haste. MOST of the pro-Israel posters here desire a SERIOUS 2-state solution (not like what China did with the Uighers).

We also recognize the history of duplicity that Arafat has shown - and even publically lauded himself for. We recognize the need for security for the people of Israel inside her borders. And many of us are Jews who realize how tenuous our connection is to whatever culture we have assimilated into either because we are reminded frequently in our communities or because we lost family in The Holocaust.

Many of those telling us not to put our heads in the sand are doing exactly that.

Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or otherwise. Muslim fundamentalism is played up more in our American media. It shouldn't be pooh-poohed, but it shouldn't take our eyes off the ball either. Muslim funamentalism isn't an excuse for Israeli brutality, any more than Jewish fundamentalism is an excuse for suicide bombings.

I'm glad to hear most here oppose Sharon. I suspect the same goes for Arafat. Israel is entitled to security, but we as Americans should be every bit as concerned with security and day-to-day conditions for Palestinians. We aren't. We back Israel to the hilt and tolerate about any measures against the Palestinian civilian population in the name of a secure Israel.

We need to be much more balanced. The condition of Israelis and Palestinains should be equally high on our list. They aren't, and that's wrong. It also denies us any credibility when offering ourselves as an arbitrator.

He got stomped on hard for saying that Holocaust victims were reincarnated Bad Jews but that's because he crossed the secular right when he said that.

This is quite different from his actual statement. There was no sense of "reincarnation" in what he said, merely that they had atoned for sins in their deaths. This outraged many Israelis whose families died in the Holocaust.

In another development, Foxman also met Tuesday with Shas mentor Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who notoriously made international headlines after suggesting that those killed in the Holocaust may have been the reincarnations of sinful souls, and that the Palestinians were "snakes."

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk000922/ifoxman.shtml

I've never seen this disputed, do you have a link to his actual comments or anything?

a little differently at first. Then I saw that there could be another way to interpret it.

Anyway, from my own recollection of the statements which Yosef was forced to recant. It was similar to what appears in the text of the link you posted.

Ovadia Yoseph is not a political leader, but is called a mentor of the Shas movement, which runs religious schools and community programs, as well as being involved in politics. He does not have a post in the government or a government office.

I think he might be compared to Jerry Falwell in the US.

Not "state contolled". It is licensed as any radio or TV is in any nation. Not state controlled.

Form your article:

Rabbi Yosef's comments came under attack in Israel as well. Justice Minister Meir Sheetrit condemned the Shas leader's tirade. "A person of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef's stature must refrain from acrid remarks such as these ... I suggest that we not learn from the ways of the Palestinians and speak in verbal blows like these," Sheetrit told Israel Radio.

http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/politics/articles/pol_0015.htm

If the content of Channel One was controlled by the GOI then, why is the Justice Minister condemning the statements?

Ovadia Yoseph is the Shas spiritual leader, but not the political head. Shas is primarily Sephardic ultra-Orthodox.

and acting like it represents Americans.

i dont remember him on any state TV calling for murder.

but what do i know...i'm a descendant of monkeys and pigs...

or so i've been told.

Falwell never advocated murder on TV (I think). But the point is, one screwball does not speak for his entire nationality, race, etc.


For old times sake...

"The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this. And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God or successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say ‘you helped this happen’."

Jerry Falwell, The 700 Club 13 sept

"But the point is, one screwball does not speak for his entire nationality, race, etc."

Unfortunately its repetitive state media racism .....

and not just one screwball.

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims,
humiliate infidelity and infidels, and destroy the aggressive unbelievers. O
God, grant us safety in our homelands and give wisdom to our imams and
leaders." He goes on: "O God, support our brothers in Palestine against the
usurper Jews. O God, deal with the tyrant, unjust, corrupt, and aggressive
Jews. O God, shake the ground under them, instill panic into their hearts,
and make them prey for Muslims."

so apparently some guy prayed for the deaths of his enemies. tell me, how is that any worse than what the Israeli Occupation forces actually do to the Palestinians every day. the IOF doesn't just pray to God for death and destruction, they actually do the deeds themselves. bulldoze Palestinian homes, assassinate their leaders, raze their crops, steal their land, humiliate them with roadblocks and in a hundred other ways.

so tell me, which is worse: praying for something bad to happen, or actually causing it to happen?