If you don't agree with Israel is that anti-semitism?

I have always thought that the creation of Israel in 1948 was the root cause of the Mid East trouble. I see that event as similar to what happened to the American Indians. People were told to leave their homeland and give it over to new comers.

Does that make me guilty of anti-semitism? Should I have no empathy for Palestinians? Did the Holocaust give some people more rights than others? Does one group's claim to existence trump another's?

These are questions I've had for a long time.

I have respected all the Jews I have known in my life time mainly because they didn't proselytize to me like Christians do.

with the israel supporter

It's time for peace

Just want to say HI to you!

:hi:

Peace & Solidarity!

And, crazy as it sounds,I am sure I will be attacked for this statement.

And if you do agree with Israel you are guilty of Anti Arab Bigotry.

Everybody who expresses an opinion on the middle east crisis is animated by some form of bigotry or another.

Me, I hate everybody.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

You can strongly disagree with the policies and actions of a government. That does not mean that you hate all the people in that country.

with Israeli policy does not necessarily equate with anti-semitism.

However, I disagree with you your analysis of the root causes of the conflict in the MidEast. But even if you are correct, Israel now exists, and will not cease to exist unless destroyed militarily. North America is not going to be given back to the Cherokee (of whome one of my distant ancestors was) or other Native American tribes, either.

That battle is over.

The only thing that will solve the conflict is for the Palestinians to accept this and move on with their lives. That could have been done fifty years ago if their Arab "brothers" weren't so intent on keeping them angry and hopeless in order to use as a lever against Israel. What other people has had "refugee" status for so long?

If the Palestinians would lay down their arms and strive to build theri communities, the generous peoples of America, Israel, and Europe would pour funding upon them.

Still, I'm not holding my breath waiting to pay higher taxes to fund this, 'cause it doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

The largest group prosecuted by Hitler were the jews but many many people suffered as well. Today people are suffering. It is important that we do all we can to alleviate the suffering and take action that cause no harm. Ones own beliefs never gives one the right to kill another because of the others belief.

It wasn't right.

Unfortunately, the jews were not welcome in Europe,
and America turned their ships back too.

I don't know what they were supposed to do? Where were they supposed to go?

to where the anti-semites wanted them to go. And they called it Israel. Ironic isn't it.

That just doesn't make any sense at all.

If you don't support Bush, does that make you unpatriotic?
If you don't like anchovies, does that make you anti-pizza?
If you don't like Mozart, does that make you anti-Masonic?

Anybody who screeches anti-semitism at people who oppose Israel's political positions can't be thinking rationally.

or unpatriotic.

That's being a little historically myopic. But no, criticism of Israel's policies and actions is not necessarily anti-semitism, and the right is increasingly trying to paint all criticism of Israel as anti-semitic. The problem is that sometimes anti-semites cloak their bigotry and hate in anti-Israeli rhetoric.

Try out this article by Esther Kaplan, Anti-Semitism After 9-11:

being anti-semite. Just like you can disagree with the government of the United States without being anti-american.

is antisemitism. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1799775&mesg_id=1799775

It claims that saying Israeli planes are purposely targetting children is the equivalent of accusing Jews of cannibalism in the ancient 'blood libel'.

It's amazing how fashionable total war is for a few at DU.

In my experience, people spend more time and effort trying NOT to offend Jewish people because of the Holocaust. It's as if we can't have an opinion on whether that person, who happens to be Jewish, did this or that wrong.

I feel like I'm still apologizing for it all these years later, in terms of the deference paid to the Jewish community, even though I am very far removed from it.

I would like to think that we will one day arrive at a place where we car argue with Jews the same way we argue with anyone!

That hasn't been my experience at all. I've had very little problem arguing with people who say they're Jewish here at DU, and I've certainly had no problem arguing with Jews in real life.

This is a forum where we come to discuss issues we know have very strong sides and are up for the debate.

I do think that it's generally frowned upon to speak ill of Israel because of their history.

there are far more posts complaining about "I will be called an antisemite"...or whining that "i cant complain without being called an antisemite"..that actual posts that do that.

there are posts every so often that explain how anti semites hop on the band wagon of critizing israel, and some posts which do throw out the antisemite charge (and some that definitely deserve it) but mostly its like the posts here, complaining about something that doesnt exist... that in itself is interesting.

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Israel and Israelis is objectively anti-Semitic (all its effects are anti-semitic) even if the propounders are not themselves subjectively anti-semitic. (i.e. they don't feel any personal bigotry or hatred against Jews per se.) This form of anti-Semitism was applied by many 'good' Germans against Jews in the 1930s who--genuinely-- did not feel the race hatred of the Nazis, or the religious hatred of the European peasants of old, but none-the-less used the excuse that criticism of Jews was justified in some instances. ("Well, the Nazis go overboard but still one can't denty that 'they' ARE 'rich', 'communists', 'capitalists', 'powerful' 'cowardly', 'clannish' etc.") The substitution of Zionist or Israeli for Jew, even if there is no direct antipathy toward Jews, does not exempt the user from anti-Semitism.

It should not need to be said that I am NOT saying that criticism of Israel, in itself, is anti-Semitic. Even a cursory review of Israeli opinion shows constant public criticism, by Israelis, of almost EVERY aspect of Israeli culture and society, most expecially including relations with Arab states and Palestinians. I venture to say there is, on average, more open criticism of Israel by Israelis than of the U.S. by Americans. (In great contrast to Israel's neighbors where public criticism of their own societies is, to say the least, limited.)

However, what IS anti-semitic is the constant double standards applied against Israel, the use of vicious, factually ridiculous tropes like comparing Israel, a nation of refugees who were the supreme victims of Nazi terror (2 million Jewish children under the age of 14 gassed) to Nazis; talk of Jewish 'cabals' (neocons?) Jewish 'power'; statements that Israel, alone among the nations of the world, has no right to exist, etc. Yes, some Jews make these statements and they are anti-Semites. (By the way, the word 'anti-semitism' was first coined in the late 19th century by a German bigot who used the word only to denote hatred of Jews. It has nothing to do with Arabs or 'semitic' peoples in general.)

For a leftist perspective on left anti-semitism and double standars: snip>

"Exactly a year ago my trade union the AUT, voted to exclude Israelis at two universities from the global academic community (the campaigners saw this as a step to excluding everyone connected to an Israeli university). We were not supposed to include research or ideas from these blacklisted academics in our journals. These banned persons were not to be invited to conferences. We were not supposed to visit these universities. These punitive measures were proposed against Israeli academics but not against academics that worked in any other country that had a bad human rights record.

We were to continue dealing as normal with academics from the US, even though their state was responsible for the illegal prison camps at Guantanamo, even though their forces had been involved in the assault on Falluja, even though American soldiers were involved in the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody called for an international boycott of UK universities because of Britain's collaboration with these US projects. Nobody currently wants to boycott British and American academics because their states are turning a blind eye to genocide in Darfur.

Nobody asked us to exclude any other academics from the international community; not scholars from North Korea, Zimbabwe, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China, Sudan - or any of the many other states with human rights records worse than that of Israel"<snip

>snip "Aha! I hear you say. There is the slippage. This was not a boycott of Jews but a boycott of Israelis, of Zionists. If we say "Zionist" rather than "Jew" then its not anti-semitic is it?"<snip

>snip" Nobody in the campaign to ban Israeli artists, thinkers, writers, teachers, students and musicians hates Jews. But they nevertheless support a policy that is anti-semitic in effect."

Read the whole article. Its quite good. http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/davi...

Is that not anti-semitism?

No matter how loudly you protest that you only hate "Zionists"?

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Because this is a comment question/statement that has not had a good airing in awhile and I felt this was a good question to pursue while the greater issue of Israel/Lebanon has the attention of so many people.

Please note that while the statement of whether you can be opposed to Israel while not being an anti-Semite is true, defining the dividing line between acceptable behavior and anti-Semitism is of course a complex issue.

Lithos
DU Moderator