When killing becomes routine

At the beginning of June, Nabil Jirdath, 48, a
clothing merchant and the father of eight, drove
from his store in Jenin to his home in the village
of Silath al-Harthiya. With him in the car were
seven of his family members, including children.
Suddenly the car came under light-arms fire from a
tank that was stationed on the main road. Jirdath
was critically wounded and died a few days later.

It's possible that the soldiers
wanted to frighten the
occupants of the car, as the
driver, for fear of the tank,
had turned on to a bypass dirt
road. And so the soldiers
opened fire at the vehicle from
long range. The result was an
appallingly unnecessary death,
which, as in many other cases,
was of no interest to the Israeli public.

However, the lack of interest shown in the event
by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) this time
assumed a horrific character: it turned out
that the IDF Spokesperson's Office had no
knowledge of the incident. Someone is killed
but no investigation is made and no record is
kept of the event anywhere - as though an
animal was the victim. Is it possible that the
soldiers in the tank didn't even bother
reporting to their superiors that they had
killed someone?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=317251&contrassID=2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

In the article it clearly says:
Jirdath was critically wounded and died a few days later.

I don't know if the soldier who fired at the family car knew there was a person critically injured, but the death did not occur until a few days later, according to the report. It's doubtful, therefore that the soldier could know of the death that would take place at a later date. Is he able to follow the health of the man?

I think that the Palestinian civilians should be given guide lines on what to do when encountering a tank, or on approaching a road block or other military installation. Is the best thing to do to hide? Perhaps run away? While that may be instinct, the best thing to do is to just stay where you are.

Guidelines could help the civilians avoid conflict and injury. Investigations into incidents such as this, my take several months.

How about insisting on some guidelines that troops actually bother to follow that reduces such unnecessary civilian deaths? And if the troops don't follow them, then the blame should fall on those troops and they should be punished. Opening fire willy-nilly at anything that moves just isn't acceptable....

I agree with the author of the article on this: "From the moral point of view, Finkelstein's
remark - in which he says that the large number
of people killed is a major reason for not
investigating the deaths - is reprehensible.
Just imagine what the reaction would be if the
police were to declare that they were no longer
going to investigate cases of murder because
there had been a steep rise in their
incidence."

I feel the same way about placing the onus on Palestinian civilians to behave in a particular way when it comes to occupying forces as I do with Iraqi civilians. They're the people who live there and who shouldn't have to put up with roadblocks, tanks or military installations of an occupying force and while it'd be so easy to create some guidelines and then say: 'Oh well, shit happens. They didn't follow the guidelines' when yet another civilian is killed, a much better solution is to end both occupations as swiftly as possible...

Violet...

It's the responsibility of the PA to issue such guidlines when it engages in a conflict. The Israeli "aggression" was in response to 18 months of violence directed against its citizens, in which hundreds of innocent civilians were killed.

The guidelines should also be given to militants, to refrain from using civilian areas or civilian homes, business and vehicles, as a place to hide.

Silly me. I don't think you got the point. Issuing guidelines to civilians, no matter who does it, just gives people the opportunity to turn around and blame the civilians for being killed by troops....

Of course you wouldn't think to have any guidelines given to the IDF, to refrain from using civilians as human shields? Of course seeing they call it the Neighbour Policy or something equally as silly, I guess that'd be something that wouldn't need guidelines?

It's agression, not "aggression" btw. Regardless of who started it, there is no excuse for the needless deaths of civilians...

Violet...

It is hardly the responsibility of Arab Palestinian authorities to advise their civilians on how to approach Israeli Army road-blocks: indeed, without knowing details of Israeli tactical doctrine, and consultation with the Israeli forces, it could hardly make a sensible attempt to do so, as its advise might well prove incorrect otherwise.

There are, of course, some things it is probably wise to do or not do, for Arab Palestinians approaching such a position, just as when stopped by the police there are things most adults learn are foolish or wise to do or not. Looking like you are trying to avoid the soldiers is probably unwise, but so might directly approaching them be, in some circumstances, or at any speed. The onus must therefore remain on the soldiers, who after all are trained and armed and under orders, none of which applies to the civilians. It is unfortunate that, given the nature and practices of the conflict, it is so easy for the soldiers to lose sight of the undeniable fact that the overwhelming preponderance of the Arab Palestinians passing are no threat to their lives, and no member of any militant body.

That the number of incidents is taken for a reason not to examine each in detail is unconscienable: only by such examination, and by reformulation of tactical doctrine in light of it, and punishment for violations of law, can the number of such incidents be reduced.

In this country police brutality is a major issue. Everyday on the news there is some officer being tried for this and endless repeats of filmed footage of the incidents. Remember what happened after the trial of Rodney King's assailants. Public reaction could hardly have been worse and he was not killed. Perhaps there needs to be a positive public uprising protesting this situation, but, given the extreme emotions and propensity for violence in this region, maybe his is not a good solution for them.:shrug:

It's agression, not "aggression" btw. Regardless of who started it, there is no excuse for the needless deaths of civilians...

It is aggression, your spell-checker must be having a bad day. I agree with the second sentence above. I disagree with your focus.

The occupying force is responsible for the safety of "all others", a catagory excluding the enemy until said enemy is captured. Civilians fall within those guidelines.

are there for a reason. However, Israel doesn't depend on them to protect civilians.

Is it a war crime to send poisonous gas or germs via missiles? Although it is, Israel supplied all it's citizens and residents and visitors with gas mask kits when there was such a threat.

The Palestinians areas of Jenin and Bethlehem were not under occupation when the terrorists used those areas as their base, despite it being a civilian center. In fact, it's against the Geneva Conventions for armed gunmen to hide among civilians or to operate from a civilian area. So the Palestinians were violating the Conventions in the first place. They should have protected their civilans by setting up their base in an open area.

This was a real tragedy that was never fully resolved. No one was allowed to go there to learn the truth, so the U.N. just closed the matter and moved on.:shrug:

The soldier who fired, did so from a distance, and had no idea who or what he hit. Shouldn't firing guns on passing traffic be taken seriously enough to follow up on these incidents, or is this the Wild West? These are all civilized people and it is a very serious matter to fire at human beings and not care enough to find out what happened.

I hesitated in posting this article because it said that those killed were no more important than animals. I take exception to that because I believe that animals are important. The animals I have are rescue and the penalties for animal cruelty are very harsh where I live. If you were to hit a dog with your car, you are required, by law, to report this to the police. Why aren't these soldiers required to report shooting at human beings?:shrug:

What more is there to add to it? The question standS on its own merit. Pragmatic analysis aside; no real good answer seems to be forthcoming.

In many respects. Even then the area where I live (northern Israel) has been said to resemble the Wild West not more than 25 years ago. Survival is more difficult. Don't the attacks on civilians really out-rank the Wild West for brutality?

not only did no one care, but no one was even aware that this killing took place. I realize that things are different in this region than in Upstate New York, where I live.

Of course attacks on any civilians are not only wrong, but unconscionable. You know that I believe that, Gimel.

And you are also right, these killings of civilians out-rank the Wild West for brutality. These are not personal grudges between individuals, but hatred of entire groups and meant to take out as many people who belong to these groups, as possible. I know that we will never solve this here, but I think that we are united in condemning it and united in our sincere wish for an end to the violence which has already claimed far too many innocent lives, many of them children.

All human life is valuable. This man had family and friends. His life had value. The fact that no one either noticed or cared is the reason that I posted this article. This should not be allowed to happen in a civilized world.

to begin with.

That's simple enough for everyone to understand.

The difference has to be made clearer between who is civilian and who is the enemy. It is, infortunately, as recent events have proved, difficult to discern.;(

"I think that the Palestinian civilians should be given guide lines on what to do when encountering a tank, or on approaching a road block or other military installation. Is the best thing to do to hide? Perhaps run away? While that may be instinct, the best thing to do is to just stay where you are.

Guidelines could help the civilians avoid conflict and injury."

Perhaps the military should have guidelines that say not to shoot unarmed civilians.

"Investigations into incidents such as this, my take several months."

Didn't you read the article?

A situation in which
IDF soldiers kill an innocent civilian and feel
that nothing happened that merits a report is
nothing short of appalling, and the
responsibility for it devolves on the Judge
Advocate General's Office, which decided from
the very outset of the intifada that it would
no longer investigate most of the acts of
killing in the territories.

Of the 2,235 Palestinians that have been killed
by the IDF, indictments against soldiers have
been handed down in only eight cases. No one
has yet been convicted.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=317251&contrassID=2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

We should never forget that this is allowed to happen, or these people.