Blow to Blair mission as Palestinian PM vows never to recognise Israel

(at the end of the article there's an interesting analysis of the bits of the ME jigsaw that need to be resolved for there to be peace. It's worth reading)

Tony Blair's hopes of securing a Middle East peace settlement in his final days as prime minister were dealt a blow yesterday when the senior Hamas leader, Ismail Haniyeh, vowed in Iran that he would never recognise Israel and would fight on until Jerusalem was liberated.
Mr Blair is due to visit Israel, the Palestinian territories and another Arab country before Christmas in pursuit of his ambition of a peace conference.

In Washington on Thursday, he said he hoped to find a way of resolving the deadlock caused by the refusal of Hamas - the militant Islamic group that won this year's Palestinian elections - to recognise Israel's right to exist. The Israelis, backed by the United States and the European Union, have refused to deal with Hamas, and all have stopped funding to the Hamas-led government.

Mr Haniyeh, the Palestinian prime minister, speaking at Friday prayers at the University of Tehran, said: "The world arrogance and Zionists ... want us to recognise the usurpation of the Palestinian lands and stop jihad and resistance and accept the agreements reached with the Zionist enemies in the past." Ignoring US and British calls to recognise Israel, Mr Haniyeh said: "We will never recognise the usurper Zionist government and will continue our jihad-like movement until the liberation of Jerusalem."

The fact that he delivered his comments in Tehran, which Israel regards as its biggest threat, will further diminish the already slim chances of meaningful negotiations.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1968086,00.html

people would look at their own country and ask for change. How democracies are born. To be sure... Iranians don't want Israel blown off the map. They want it sitting exactly where it is with never a peace deal..so it is an issue and a wedge for their own political use. They get to keep stirring the pot and don't have to deal with their own dam issues of rights and governance same as any democracy does today.

Israel does exist. They aren't going anywhere. And I don't see how holding out for those few words (which anyone can say and not really mean) should be an impediment to peace.

by not "recognizing israel, it means hamas will teach each new generation that one of their goals in life is to remove israel...that translates in to continual attacks on israel.....that means no peace.

pretty simple first step....of course there are those that feel the kassams falling on israel is perfectly ok as long as israel doesnt do anything about it.....which relates to the non recognition...its perfectly ok to attack israelis.

Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya:

"We will not give up our Jihadist movement until the full liberation of Beit al-Muqqadas (Jerusalem) and Palestinian land."

You don't see how this position is an impediment to peace?

Link to quote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6161477.stm

It's no different than the eternal and undivided line that the Israeli govt sticks to...

The statements by Haniyeh in the recent days, though, as he has visited Iran have been particularly antagonistic towards the idea of reaching some kind of lasting negotiated settlement between the Israeli and Palestinian sides.

Both the timing and the location of the statements make it clear that they were made with that intention in mind...

peace, as was listed in the article. But it also seems like they both want everything up front or no negotiations will take place.

As I said, Israel does exist and it will continue to exist. It is an empty threat at this point. Hamas doesn't have the ability to destroy Israel, so to use this demand for recognition as a pretext for talks is misleading.

The real impediment to peace is the unwillingness on both sides to talk to one another.

Abbas is willing to talk to Olmert and Olmert is willing to talk to Abbas.

Haniyeh says:

"The world arrogance and Zionists ... want us to recognize the usurpation of the Palestinian lands and stop jihad and resistance and accept the agreements reached with the Zionist enemies in the past."

While Abbas says that the PA needs to abide by agreements the PLO has signed.

Citation: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_palestinians_6

Israel and the PA have talked and negotiated in the recent past (thanks, in no small part, to the involvement of President Clinton)

Hamas, as is noted in the Guidelines for discussion of Israeli/Palestinian affairs message at the top of this board, is a group that promotes hate.

Hamas leaders do not want to negotiate with Israel because they do not acknowledge that there is an Israel, just a group of "Zionist enemies" who are occupying Palestine (and have been doing so since 1948, not 1967)

And what they want are things like their own state, and Israel to pull out of areas they are illegally occupying - all reasonable requests. It's not like they are asking for something they aren't legally entitled to.

If Israel wants to use the weak words of some yahoo as an excuse not to give back the other million plus people what they rightfully deserve, then I think there is a little more to it.

of the Palestinian National Authority.

I don't believe that anyone here could claim to know what all Palestinians want.

This man, however, is their elected Prime Minister and he and his organization call for replacing all of Israel with a Palestinian state.

And he was elected in fair elections. So here we have a guy who Israel doesn't like, and they have used the fact that they don't approve of him to punish the Palestinian people further. And his position to not recognize Israel is really and ideological one, since he doesn't have the military might to back it up.

So, the peace process is at a standstill because Israel doesn't like the choice of elected leader of the people they've suppressed for over 40 years, and are afraid of his ideology even though they can crush him very easily should he try to act on it?

That is a poor excuse to engage in collective punishment and to not even sit down and talk.

This is Hamas we are talking about.

The peace process is not at a standstill because Israel doesn't like the choice of elected leader of the Palestinians.

The elected leader of the Palestinians does not want a peace process. The elected leader of the Palestinians not only will not sit down for any kind of peace talks with Israel but does not acknowledge that it is a country.

You state that "they are afraid of his ideology even though they can crush him very easily should he try to act on it".

Hamas has acted on its ideology since its inception staging twelve years worth of suicide attacks killing hundreds of Israeli civilians. Far from their being "crushed" they are now the majority party in the Palestinian National Authority's government.

No. So, they have not been anywhere close to following through on any threat to wipe out Israel.

Which is why Prime Minister Haniyeh is calling for continued jihad and resistance rather than peace negotiations.

Look, I agree with you that Israelis and Palestinians need to sit down and talk.

Those talks, however, cannot happen with Hamas in control of the Palestinian government.

Just like those talks could not happen if the Kahanists were elected as the majority party in the Israeli government.

They are hate groups that do not want peace.

This constant rhetoric on the Palestinian side about never recognizing Israel is very problematic. We can dismiss the fact that they unofficially recognize Israel anyway by repeating the same stupid mantra over and over. How do you recognize something that you keep telling yourself you won't recognize? :shrug:

But the rhetoric is still harmful. It serves no purpose. It's kind of like Pelosi saying that impeachment is off the table. Why say anything at all?

recognize and have reached agreements with Israel.

Haniyeh wants to make it clear that Hamas does not respect the understandings reached between Israel and the PA before his organization was elected.