Fatah: 7 Iranian weapons experts arrested in Gaza

The Fatah-affiliated Palestinian Security Force arrested seven Iranian weapons experts working in the service of Hamas during a raid at the Islamic University, a Hamas stronghold in Gaza City, a senior Fatah official reported late Thursday. He said an eighth committed suicide during the raid

However, neither the names nor photographs of the Iranians have been released, and Israel Radio reported Friday that the Arab-language media has been cautious in reporting the Fatah charge out of concern that it could be part of a Fatah-Hamas propaganda war

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/821015.html
_________

personally its hardly a surprise....one gets help in ones "war" where ever you can.

hence we see left anti war/occupation protesters alongside with religious facists/fanatics....we saw israel working with S.Africa....etc

but i do remember all the outrage at israels relationship with S.Africa...so now we have part of the palestenians (the elected govt) possibly working with a regime that not only practices gender apartheid, but hangs homosexuals and girls with 'big mouths"

so i'm just curious if this is to be condemed here by those who condem others for not living up the "expected moral value system" (that israel is always being accused of....)



or is not to be condemed because one "expects better of israel"....in other words...a double standard, one expects less of the palestinians because they________

dont understand?
are a "lesser culture"?
dont understand the western value system that israel is supposed to live by.

and worry about wide-ranging philosophical issues about "lesser culture" value systems later. My two cents...

either directly or indirectly...hizballa and iran support hamas....they all have stated that destroying israel is a common goal..so it would seem to be the most obvious thing to do....(in fact why wouldnt they aid each other?)

More Sunni-Shi'ite strife if true...great...just great.:eyes:

Good luck with that mission.

against Iran -- seeing as how the U.S. just gifted them with a multi-million dollar aid package:



What surprises me is that so many people are so willing to fall for such a transparently quid pro quo arrangement. "Blame Iran" is the new product rollout by Bushco for Spring, 2007; just like "Imminent Danger Iraq" was the big rollout of Fall, 2002.

That anyone is willing to fall for the same crap AGAIN just boggles my mind.

sw

fatah is a credible source, other times not so much.

between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Iran is well known for bankrolling Hizbollah. It is also now known for supporting Hamas in a bid to strengthen its power in the region. Remember, the US got rid of Iran's two biggest foes: The Taliban and Saddam Hussein. The Iranian regime sees this as a new era, and a second chance, to revive Persian domination over the Middle East. The Saudis were reportedly in secret talks with Iran, as the Saudis support Fatah, to get a cease fire- but once knowledge of this came out, both sides denied such talks were occuring.

The Iranian people, are apparrently not too pleased about this. They wonder why Iran is spending so much money in the eastern mediterranean as their economy verges on collapse and there is massive unemployment. Ahmadinejad was elected because he promised jobs and economic reforms, not to build nuclear bombs and fuel wars in distant lands.

Putting words in Ahmadinejad's mouth

http://www.counterpunch.org/tilley08282006.html

"...to millions of Iranians, far more than the West can imagine, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a rather popular guy.

The average Iranian is from the lower income brackets and lives outside Tehran.

Since taking office, Mr. Ahmadinejad has done much to reach out to these people, who live mostly in rural areas. This is not only because his origin is provincial. Former President Mohammad Khatami and the president before him, Hashemi Rafsanjani, also were from the provinces, but they treated Tehran as if it represented Iran. Through his constant trips to the provinces (13 so far), Mr. Ahmadinejad has made non-Tehranis feel as if they also belong to Iran.

More important, Mr. Ahmadinejad is putting his money where his mouth is. In his budget approved in December, expenditures in rural areas increased by as much as 180 percent in his first year as president."

http://www.iranian.com/Javedanfar/2006/June/Ahmadinejad/index.html

Iran is not building a bomb, anymore than Saddam was.

"A major U.S. intelligence review has projected that Iran is about a decade away from manufacturing the key ingredient for a nuclear weapon, roughly doubling the previous estimate of five years, according to government sources with firsthand knowledge of the new analysis."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/01/AR2005080101453.html

"Iran Can Now Make glowing Mickey Mouse Watches.

Despite all the sloppy and inaccurate headlines about Iran "going nuclear," the fact is that all President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Tuesday was that it had enriched uranium to a measely 3.5 percent, using a bank of 180 centrifuges hooked up so that they "cascade."

The ability to slightly enrich uranium is not the same as the ability to build a bomb. For the latter, you need at least 80% enrichment, which in turn would require about 16,000 small centrifuges hooked up to cascade. Iran does not have 16,000 centrifuges. It seems to have 180. Iran is a good ten years away from having a bomb, and since its leaders, including Supreme Jurisprudent Ali Khamenei, say they do not want an atomic bomb because it is Islamically immoral, you have to wonder if they will ever have a bomb.

What is really going on here is a ratcheting war of rhetoric."

http://www.juancole.com/2006/04/iran-can-now-make-glowing-mickey-mouse.html

"There's been a lot of talk recently about Israel and/or the United States bombing the nuclear facilities in Iran. I wouldn't worry about that. I believe they are both bluffing.

In the first place, just the talk has kicked up the price of oil. In the second place, there is no proof that Iran really wants to develop nuclear weapons. So far, what the Iranians have done and propose to do are legal. They have a reasonable explanation for why they want to develop nuclear power. Oil is their biggest and most valuable export. The less they use for domestic purposes, the more they will have to export.

The Iranians are just as sensible and levelheaded as anyone else. Don't buy the propaganda that they are all a bunch of crazies. They've been around a lot longer than we have. I would trust them with nuclear weapons as much as – perhaps even a hair more than – I trust Bush. Americans must stop allowing politicians and propagandists to scare them into reckless behavior."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese256.html

the Guardian council had to forbid almost all moderates from joining the race (along with liberal parties boycotting) and Ahmedinejad's party losing critical elections last December on various poweful councils. Rafsanjani (sp?) is also makeing a striking comeback as a reformist because Ahmedinejad, who came to power promising economic reforms and jobs has failed spectacularly. Can you imagine being in a country where unemployment is in the teens (or worse- maybe 20%? The voters' not backing the president's party and the return of Rafsanjani are two strong indicators that Iranians do not see the progress promised.

Furthermore, I do not think I said anything about Iran's nuclear program. Iran may not be developing the bomb itself right now but I do not doubt that they have nuclear ambitions in the future. Iran sees North Korea and Saddam's Iraq, two of the US' declared enemies. Saddam's regime is gone but Kim Jong-Il's regime is still there. The Iranian elite see that possessing nuclear weapons might be the only thing that will keep them in power. The US really cannot do anything about this because any actions against Iran's nuclear program will set off a chain of events that will make Iraq even worse (if that is possible). Do I think they will use it? Not necessarily as I have stated on another part of the board. They would not use it and if they gave a nuclear device to a group that would use it, the vengence returned upon Iran would echo into the next centuries.

Again, I am not too worried what the President of Iran is saying- although I think he is playing a game of semantics - he might not want the land between the sea and the river to be destroyed, but I am sure he would not mind if the people who predominately make up Israel, Jews, were also destroyed with Zionism. That is just speculation.

Anyway, Iranians have been calling for the destruction of Israel and the US for so long it is mostly just a rhetorical device. Should they get their hands on the capability to act on these wishes, they probably would not.

But as pointed out further down the thread, Israel does not seem to think there are actually Iranian experts "in country." This may be so, and thus this whole discussion mot, but recent events, such as the "denied," secret meetings between Saudi Arabia and Iran, make me suspicious that there is at least Iranian money floating around in great quantities.

...and the links I've provided to support my beliefs, but of course I can't make you either read them closely or accept the info as accurate.
The unemployment in Iran is probably greater than 20%, but that doesn't mean the people either blame Ahman or that he's responsible. Other factors come into play, the birth rate in Iran is phenomenal making new supplies of workforce explosive and impossible to keep pace with, and while in a society like ours that throws the unemployed to the dogs and charges to use a public toilet or get a paper cup from a restaurant a high unemployment rate like theirs would result in widespead misery and unrest, but much of Iran's economy is still nationalized and the culture and C.O.L. is undoubtedly more of a cushion.
you wrote:
"Ahmadinejad was elected because he promised jobs and economic reforms, not to build nuclear bombs and fuel wars in distant lands."

That's why I pointed out that it's a myth that Iran is building nukes and I'll add that Iran offering support to Shiites in Iraq and Lebanon doesn't equate to fueling wars in distant lands. They function as advisors, not generators. In any case I'm certain the Iranian people have no problem with this. I'd say they're well aware of who's the underdog fighting injustice. That's why there was little opposition from Americans when the mujahadeen were fighting the soviets in Afghanistan and we were providing funding. (Except from me)

I think you and I are pretty close in our opinions of Iran, where we differ might be that I think Israel might serve as a proxy bulldog, and the U.S. coalition attack on Iranian diplomats in Iraq along with Bush's order to kill any Iranians in that country appear to be a precursor. I'd say the Bush admin is looking for an excuse, another gulf of Tonkin scam. This suprises me, because common sense seems to preclude the idea that Bushco would attack Iran, seeing as how alot of internatl business is located there.
I don't think Iran has any desire to develop nukes, I don't think Ahman is a liar. I know for sure Bushco and Olmertco are serial liars, so there's where I'm coming from.
Where I have a problem with Iran is it's outdated theocracy and death penalty, particularly with what appears to be victimization of homosexuals. But I have no right to tell Iran how it should run it's society, just as I don't believe anyone should've told pre-2003 Iraq what kind of govt. it should have.

Iranian official Larijani, Islamic Jihad leader deny reports of 5 Iranian citizens being arrested in Gaza in Tehran press conference, discuss Palestinian matter

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3360466,00.html

<snip>

"A blatant lie," was Secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council Ali Larijani's response to reports that five Iranians were arrested by Palestinian security officers in Gaza on Friday.

According to a Palestinian security official, at least five Iranian citizens were arrested during a raid at the Islamic University, a Hamas stronghold in Gaza City.

One of the Iranians was a general, and the group was believed to have been sent by Iran to train Hamas members.

Larijani addressed the report at a press conference in Tehran after meeting with Islamic Jihad Secretary-General Ramadan Abdullah Shallah and was quoted by Iranian news agency Mehr.

Shallah himself called the report "a joke."

Regarding the Hamas-Fatah infighting over the past few days, Larijani said, "Right now there are conflicts in Palestine that need to be worked out, and we are trying to reach an agreement between them."

Sent to train Hamas members?
:rofl:

'We have no indications that Iranian experts aided Hamas..'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3360760,00.html