IDF believes Hezbollah recently placed explosive devices found on northern border

The Israel Defense Forces believes that five explosive devices found Monday along the Israel-Lebanon border were placed recently by Hezbollah.

Troops from the Engineering Corps found the devices some 60 meters north of the fence demarcating the international border, inside Israeli sovereign territory.

The troops fired at the devices, which caught fire and exploded. The soldiers then carried out further searches of the area.

Israel has filed a formal complaint with the United Nations Interim Forces in Lebanon, whose troops are stationed along the border. UNIFIL troops and members of the Lebanese army arrived at the site following the detonations.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/822090.html

in order to prevent another armored incursion? What would be the problem with that?

the actual fence is within israeli territory, NOT on the actual border......the border marked by the UN is NORTH of the israeli fence....israeli territory according to the UN.

The devices themselves were located several meters inside Lebanese territory. The troops fired at the devices, which caught fire and exploded.

However, there were bunkers within Israel:

About 10 days ago, IDF troops destroyed two Hezbollah bunkers uncovered during searches of the area around the border fence.... Both bunkers were within Israel's territory, somewhere between the international border and the border fence. The bunkers housed supplies, food and tools that would enable a long stay underground.

If I were in Lebanon, I would mine the border, too. But no matter how little regard Israel has shown for the borders, they should be staying within Lebanon.

According to international agreements, there should only be one army in Lebanon and it's supposed to be the Lebanese army.

They have no Israeli occupying force due to the force of their arms. Disarming would be stupid as long as the IDF doesnt' disarm. Also they know the Lebanese government is kept too weak to defend them.

If everyone keeps their toys on their side of the fence there isn't a problem is there?

I know pointing this out will have absolutely no effect since reality has never been a big part of the anti-Israel equation, but . .

"They have no Israeli occupying force due to the force of their arms."

I have no idea what you are trying to say. "Force of their arms?" They have no Israeli occupying force because if they created one and tried to occupy Northern Israel with it it would be totally destroyed in about 10 minutes. Their only chance is to hide themselves among th civilians so when they attack Israel with their rockets they can cry victim again when civilians are killed by Israel's attempts to shut down the launch sites.

"Disarming would be stupid as long as the IDF doesnt' disarm."

Well, since the IDF has never attacked another militia or army when they were not threatened or actually attacked first I'd say that statement itself is pretty stupid.

"Also they know the Lebanese government is kept too weak to defend them."

Yes, that's been Hisb'allah's primary goal and they have largely succeeded.

"If everyone keeps their toys on their side of the fence there isn't a problem is there?"

This is the best reality denying sentence in your post. You must have missed the thread about the bombs that Hisb'allah planted on the Israeli side of the border that were discovered by the IDF on Sunday - the bombs designed to kill IDF patrolling the border - the bombs carefully disguised as rocks.

Oh wait, that's this thread.

And you must have missed the thread on the Hisb'allah bunkers that were recently discovered on the Israeli side of the border - fully stocked with weapons and food to last several weeks.

Keeping one's toys on their own side of the border, indeed.

"Well, since the IDF has never attacked another militia or army when they were not threatened or actually attacked first......"

Israel lost a few soldiers on a border; pretty much a tough shit circumstance since Israel kidnaps and assasinates civilians all the time. For this pretext they started a war which is still killing Lebanese civilians; many of them children.

For those 2 lost soldiers they killed how many children? Why didn't they pull one of their famous missile strikes on a van loaded with a family? They could easily have had a four-to-one kill ratio and satisfied honor. Instead they started a war.

Bullshit.

"If we lose a soldier we'll kill 10 of your children" is not a path to peace. It appears to be IDF policy though.

But like the RW I guess you figure if you repeat a lie often enough it might catch.

Hisb'allah attacked Israel. Period. They killed and kidnapped several IDF and simultaneously launched a barrage of rockets into Northern Israel towns and villages. You say tough shit. Israel says fuck Hisb'allah and their apologists. No nation on earth is expected to ignore such a violation.

In order to recover 2? 3? soldiers and shut down a useless artillary duel that Hezbollah was starting. How many Israeli's did the rockets kill before they crossed the border?

If the Israeli government had sat tight they could have reponded to the rockets on a one for one basis and they would be about 140 citizens ahead on the equation. Dead is dead on both sides of that border.

Now the whole world knows Israeli armor can be cracked. A significant loss. They lost due to impatience and disregard for the lives/abilities on the north side of that border.

. . were somewhat ambiguous as to the exact location - or at least open to various interpretations.

This morning the NY Times reports the story and leaves no question as to where the bombs were located. Since there is no AP byline it appears they confirmed the story independently.

Israel: Army Says It Uncovered Hezbollah Bombs

By GREG MYRE
Published: February 6, 2007

The Israeli military said that it found and detonated four bombs placed just on its side of the border with Lebanon and that it believed Hezbollah guerrillas were responsible. The bombs, disguised to look like rocks, were placed near a road used by Israeli soldiers, it said. Israel and Lebanon fought a month-long war last summer, and an enlarged United Nations peacekeeping force is now monitoring the Lebanese side of the border.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/world/middleeast/06briefs-ARMYSAYSITUN_BRF.html

It would be difficult for any state to consider this as anything but an act of war and a violation of the UN truce. It would also be obvious to anyone with an open mind that Hisb'allah has every intention of attacking Israel again when it feels it has some advantage - just as many military experts predicted the attacks last summer by Hisb'allah - that occured on the Israeli side of the border siumultaneous with rocket barrages into N. Israeli towns.

I would also note that no free nation in the world would be expected to tolerate such a gross violation as this without some response - except perhaps Israel.

children are still being killed by the many unexploded cluster bombs they dropped in the last few days of the war, after they KNEW an agreement had been reached, they have the nerve to complain about 5 explosives?

Yeah, right.

Or at least a misunderstanding.

Several instances in the article though explicitly state that the bombs were planted on the Israel side of the border.

In addition Haaretz shows a photo with the caption:

"Lebanese watching across the border as IDF troops inspect the site where Hezbollah explosives were found Monday. (Yaron Kaminsky)"

The same link as above: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/822090.html

Either they meant "south of the fence" instead of "north of the fence" - or the border snakes around there so that north of the border at that point would actually lie in Israel.

There's also some lack of clarity on the issue of fences, international borders and the blue line that could be the cause of the confusion. I couldn't find any clear explanation on the web after looking for a few minutes. Maybe pelsar or someone else who understands this issue could fill us in. How could the explosives in this article be in Israel and still be north of the border at this location as described in the article?

"Troops from the Engineering Corps found the devices some 60 meters north of the fence demarcating the international border, inside Israeli sovereign territory."

there are place where the fence is south of the actual border (usually due to topographical issues, IIRC)

:thumbsup: Haaretz should have shown a map IMO.