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Can Israel Ever Be Wrong?

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Daveparts Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 06:26 PM
Original message
Can Israel Ever Be Wrong?



Of course this is a rhetorical question, Israel can never be wrong just ask them they will tell you. It is polarizing questions I understand that, I realize I’m skirting the edge of the abyss to even suggest the possibility that Israel could ever be wrong about anything ever! Why the Jews are Gods chosen people so ergo Israel is Gods chosen nation. I understand that not everyone understands infallibility it is a difficult concept to come to grips with.

Being raised as I was in the Catholic Church in Chicago I was exposed to infallibility at an early age and of course asked commensurate questions. How could the Pope be right about everything? Would a bookie take a sports bet from the Pope? After sitting in the principal’s office for several hours it was explained in the strongest terms that the Pope’s infallibility applied only to spiritual matters he was just as likely to think the Bears were going to beat the Colts as I was. But the Pope not being from Chicago probably used logic rather than emotion to place his wager and he probably all ready knew that a team with a good quarterback will beat a team with no quarterback every time.

That isn’t infallibility that is dispassionate reasoning the disconnecting of emotion from the argument of which football team was more capable. But the Pope kept his opinions to himself in fact I don’t think he even expressed a preference before the game and that’s a good protocol for a Pope. If he had said Manning would eat them alive, He would have been declared anti Chicagoite or anti Illinois, condemnation would have been swift and forth coming from Springfield and he doesn’t even claim infallibility in matters of football.

Infallibility is a sensitive issue and those of us who aren’t infallible and don’t fully understand the burden carried by those who are. America and Israel are the best of friends and have a special relationship, the American government understands infallibility in fact sometimes they even claim it for themselves from time to time not about everything only some times on certain issues. My friends tried to tell me the Bears were doomed but I wouldn’t listen but I didn’t think my friends were out to get me or had some grand design for my downfall they just disagreed and besides they aren’t infallible either and as friends we disagree all the time. To me that’s the key in having good friends they will tell you what they think especially when you don’t want to hear it.

For the American Government however would never dare to questions Israel’s infallibility when US made cluster bombs are dropped around Southern Lebanon the US government says international law may have been violated. That’s bold talk to imply that Israel might have violated international law that is as close as the US will get. After all the US isn’t infallible who did we think the Israelis would drop them on the Bahamas? So without a doubt the error was Americas not Israel’s, it must be for Israel is infallible.

The Chinese built the great wall as a security barrier to keep out invading Mongols it failed but would any one try to tell the emperor that it might not work? Of course not the emperor was infallible. The French built the Maginot line as a security barrier against the Germans it failed, the French didn’t think they were infallible it just seemed like a good idea at the time. The East German government built the Berlin wall as a security barrier against incursions into their socialist republic; the world knew it was at the behest of the Soviets. The Soviets might have thought it was a bad idea they might have even have thought that Stalin was not infallible but prudence dictated keeping such ideas to ones self.

But American Presidents for fifty years pointed to the wall and declared it was a symbol of the failure of the their political system Reagan demanding “Mr. Gorbachov tear down this wall.” In America our porous borders have prompted some to say we should build our own wall across our border. Cooler heads have explained the cost and tried to explain that’s walls have failed for thousands of years and that a wall across the Mexican border will most likely fail. But now the idea of building a wall as a security barrier in Israel that’s a damn fine idea, I bet that will work! That’s genius! Of course the Israeli’s are infallible so it will be a perfect wall.

Probably the greatest asset in infallibility is to be above criticism and free from the bonds of hypocrisy. For any who dare to criticize do so not because they are wrong but because they hate their infallibility that God granted this gift to one but not to all. If you are a Nobel peace prize winning Bishop whose work on reconnecting a country torn by strife a country racially divided by apartheid and you call the situation in Israel comparable. You have lost your head you are out of your mind senility perhaps. The amazing thing is how fast it can happen one minute you’re a Nobel Peace prize winning ex President who has spent almost forty years traveling the world doing humanitarian works. Judging elections addressing agricultural issues working with Habitat for Humanity.

If James Earl Carter had shown up at Ben Gurion airport one day before the publication of his book Peace Not Apartheid he would have been welcomed with open arms. Top government officials would have rolled out the red carpet. But for all his experience and knowledge Mr. Carter’s book is fatally flawed and he should have known better. The vitriolic campaign against his book is well and fully justified why obscure charges against subordinates for which they were cleared from are again fair game. Why Jimmy Carter has lost his mind every partisan attack is well deserved no wonder is was a one term President he must be in the pocket of the Arabs why else would anyone in their right mind dare to suggest such an obscene question. Can Israel ever be wrong?

Why Allen Dershowitz pointed out in his ten thousand-word rebuttal published in the Op-ed page of the New York Times all of the failings of Mr. Carters book he posed question after question to Carter and challenged him to debate the issue. Dershowitz one of the most talented attorney’s in the country framed the debate to the issue of the Arab Israeli conflict for Allen is far too wise a man to fall into the trap of asking, does Jimmy Carter former President of the United States former humanitarian now mad man and raving lunatic have a right to speak his opinion?

It makes me wonder somehow if George Bush didn’t get his famous line “Your either with us or you’re with the terrorists” from the Israeli ambassador for is you dare to ask the question can Israel ever be wrong? You are lined up with Nazis and Holocaust deniers and the President of Iran it is more reminiscent of Mao’s red guard than a democracy not only aren’t you allowed to question the next five year plan you’re not allowed to question a spelling error on the page the five year plan is written on.

After all Israel is the only fully democratic country in the region we are told except for Lebanon and Iran both countries infallible Israel has problems getting along with and of course when the Palestinians voted for Hammas they had a problems with that as well. When will those Palestinians learn if you want a peaceful resolution to the problems in the region just do what they Israelis want after all they are infallible. America is a democracy as well but even democracy is no shield against hypocrisy. America enshrined the phrase all men are created equal but for hundreds of years it was a cruel charade to black Americans. They lived as second-class citizens considered as 3/5ths of a white person.

The crime of segregation went on for generations in America and all white Americans were guilty either for their active participation or their quiet acquiescence of it. Hundreds of black Americans were lynched for minor crimes or even for nothing. Blacks had their land swindled from them because they didn’t have a fair access to the court systems or to the educational system. But this situation is completely different from when an Israeli bulldozer knocks down a Palestinian home for lack of a building permit or an IOF soldier
shoots a Palestinian teenager for throwing rocks besides the Palestinians won’t renounce the use of violence. The Israelis don’t have to renounce the use of violence they’re infallible and everyone knows it’s the guy on the bottom in a fight that says, “Had enough ready to give up?”

Am I skating to close to the edge? The difference is the Israelis want peace and the Palestinians don’t, now I realize that this is an incomplete sentence and I will complete it as soon as I put my asbestos suit on and make my way down to my nuclear bunker and get the door locked and bolted. Ah, Mr. Carter could you help me with this door please? Thank you. The difference is the Israelis want peace and the Palestinians don’t want it dictated to them. The Israelis make peace offers that always maintain the status quo and those recalcitrant Palestinians always reject them wanting a return to conditions before occupation.

If the Palestinians were infallible like the Israelis they would read American history Native Americans were offered peace treaties time after time and after giving up their land and the Americans didn’t keep up their terms of the treaty and the natives would rise up and they were called savages that just couldn’t be bargained with. If the Palestinians were infallible like the Israelis they wouldn’t need Allen Dershowitz to explain possession is 9/10s of the law. The Israeli government says it’s willing to trade land for peace and they are correct to do so for they are infallible. Now if your like me very fallible and you come out of your local mall and a gang is leaning on your car and claiming its their car is trading your car for peace a real good deal for you?

The current work in Jerusalem at the site al-Aqsa mosque is a perfect example of the level of mistrust, the Israelis claim they are doing repair work to the site early reports said archeological work but as the furror rose it became simple repair work. Now how would Jews respond to Palestinian archeologists working under the Wailing Wall? How would Catholics respond to Jerry Falwell digging under the Vatican? Infallible or not it’s insensitive and disrespectful.

Jerusalem after all is the seat of three major religions and irrespective of any land claims or peace accords respect must be shown for religious sites of all faiths. Logic would dictate and common sense would expect that a committee made up of religious and archeological professionals of all faiths would be set up in Jerusalem to keep a watchful eye on all work around holy sites. Imagine when this work began a press conference where Islamic professors and archeologists announced they would be on site and over see the work. No protests no rubber bullets or stun grenades and if the work is as the Israelis insist what could be the harm? They claim they want to rebuild a bridge and Ironically here’s their chance.

But that’s the main drawback to infallibility why should the infallible need others input why should the infallible need sensitivity? It makes the infallible appear arrogant and unwilling to cooperate and they appear to act arbitrarily. Recently in an Israeli news paper and article wrote about the construction of low cost housing for young Jewish couples explaining that the inability of young couples to find affordable homes in the west bank was discouraging migration. The homes were to be purchased by Americans and then leased to the young couples. The homes were to be advertised in the Jewish press in the United States.

I’m sorry I’m fallible but I thought there was no Jewish Press in the United States? The Jerusalem Post | Updated Feb. 9, 2007 2:20 Settlers to US Jews: Help us to stay It would appear to me as fallible as I am that the goal is to displace the Palestinians out of the West Bank and to so populate the area as to make independent statehood impossible. It would appear that the Israelis might be infallible but at the very least disingenuous. Duck! Cover yourself I’m going to say it! Can Israel ever be wrong?
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iamahaingttta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Israel is often wrong...
Not always, but often.
Just like Washington, Moscow, Beijing, Tehran, Oslo, Cairo, Caracas, Roseau, Monrovia, Suva, London, and Accra.
The sooner everybody gets clued into this notion, the sooner we can do something about it...
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Too often as in USS Liberty
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Only the Holocaust Revisionsists and Neo-nazis buy that crap. n/t
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Could you clarify 'cause I don't know where you are coming from or going
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The Liberty Lobby is a neo-nazi organization.
I've posted about that here on DU before.

I am not your google-slave.

look it up.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The Liberty Lobby was founded in 1955...
...12 years prior to the attack on the USS Liberty.

What foresight eh?:eyes:
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Daveparts... once again, I am reminding you that this belongs in the Israel Forum.
Were Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto Heroes?
Topic started by Daveparts on Jan-30-07 07:25 AM (8 replies)
Last modified by papau on Jan-30-07 09:23 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=259965
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Are you a moderator now? What's it to you?...
...Is he touching on things you don't want people to see?
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Glorfindel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. It is governed by human beings, and therefore is FREQUENTLY wrong
I have always believed that if the United States stopped its unqualified, unquestioning support and subsidies for Israel the "Palestinian problem" would be solved in six weeks' time. But I, too, am fallible, and definitely could be mistaken. :evilgrin:
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Locking per I/P guidelines
Not based on a recent news or op-ed article.

Lithos
DU Moderator
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