Gaza Strip blacked out eight hours a day as new round of sanctions begins

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=27053

Beginning on Sunday the 1.5 million residents of the Gaza Strip will be lighting the cold winter nights with candles due to Israel's punitive cuts in vital fuel supplies.

Kanan Ubaid, the deputy chief of Gaza's electric authority told reporters on Sunday that the Gaza Strip will be without power for at least eight hours a day because Gaza's power plant does not have the fuel it needs to run at full capacity.

Rafiq Maliha, Deputy Director of the Gaza Power and Electricity Company, confirmed that as of Saturday, the fuel reserves were virtually zero, a drastic new cutback has already been in effect for the past 24 hours: "Yesterday, starting at 2 pm, we reduced our production by 30-35%, due to lack of fuel."

All of Gaza will be blacked out eight hours a day, Maliha said, “if you have an ideal situation."

The tiny Strip is one of the most densely populated places in the world, and already endures power outages up to 24 hours a day. Gaza's electric transformers have been bombed by the Israeli military.
........

This reflects the reality of the suffering of the people of Gaza, not brought by simple lack but by design of an occupying power. Bush thinks that he can peace to the Middle East by supporting policies of terror and punishing people for voting incorrectly. It is not likely.

Demand an End to the Siege on Gaza.

It would make more sense to have the power on at night to run heat and lights, as opposed to the day. Ideally, they wouldn't have to make cuts. Can they not import fuel from Egypt, especially to power the new generator they received from them?

. . that would violate the narrative. It's always Israel's fault. You know better than that.

No other options or possibilities should be explored because they are absurd, so yr right. ;)

This is not just for lights. It is for essentials. Like refrigeration. Water pumps. Sewage pumps. Heat. (it really gets damn cold in that part of the world, this time of year)

Not to mention industry. There now is no functioning economy in Gaza.

A privileged american may not understand these things. all some may think of is that if the electricity goes out, there tv is off and their beer gets warm.

I live in New Orleans. I am VERY aware of life without electricity and I moved here after Katrina. I have been a number of natural disasters that knocked electricity out for days. I didn't just say lights, I also said heat. It makes more sense to have the heat running at night, don't you think? Since it is so cold in that part of the world. Then, they should look to importing from Egypt and others to fulfill their needs.

People with money may have portable propane heaters. Most people dress in layers.

I don't think you're very aware of the general level of poverty. These are people who don't have enough food to eat right now.

I don't think you know enough about me to make the assertion about awareness or lack thereof about poverty. The level of food is not the topic of the OP.

A country at war need do nothing to "help out" its enemy. Israel is not occupying Gaza and has no responsibility to supply oil, food, electricity, especially as rockets rain over the border.

I am sorry for the Gazans, who elected a government that has made their lives so much more miserable than they were previously.

I certainly don't believe everything I here.
I sorta assume what Gazans say (in English)
is essentially made up BS that a few foolish
people in the West might believe.

Gazans have the gov't they want.

Unfortunately, the US and it's allies including Israel, refuse to allow the outcome of free and fair democratic elections to stand.

And prison guards do not typically occupy prison cells.

Nothing goes in or out of Gaza without Israeli permission, unless smuggled. Israel controls the airspace over Gaza. If by stating "Israel is not occupying Gaza" you mean that it does not have soldiers on the ground in Gaza, that may be true in some literal sense, from time to time. Of course, it's decision not to have troops on the ground is Israel's decision and is in no way recognition of Gaza sovereignty, which of course does not exist.

. . across your border is not exercising "sovereignty". It is defending the lives of your citizens.

You can complain about the blockade if you wish - but Hamas makes the final decisions as to what goes on in Gaza. They were democratically elected. Israel uses recognized means approved in the UN Charter to protect itself from attack. It's called self defense. Look it up.

If you want to argue that Israel's collective punishment of the Gaza population is justified as "self defense" against rocket attacks, you go ahead. I don't buy it.

By no means do I minimize the rocket attacks or suggest that Israel does not have the right to defend itself. Collective punishment, however, will not work.

The "Collective Punishment" trope has been a favorite here for several years. It's one of the main pillars of "The Narrative". Supporting it seems to be the life work of several of our members.

Accept for those who push the narrative, no-one here really takes such things seriously. I'd suggest there are plenty of unthinking drones over in GD who still lap it up. But seriously, you need more than endlessly repeated whines of "Collective Punishment" to make an argument here.

Maybe in your wisdom you can tell us how Israel should defend itself from rockets and suicide bombers. How about ending the occupation and getting rid of those cruel checkpoints at the border crossings - where heartless IDF troops think that "all Palestinians are deranged bombers"? Then all the Palestinian militants would lay down their guns and finally see the virtue in living in peace and harmony with their Jewish neighbors.

Is that how you see it?

Added on edit: Oh yeah I forgot, Israel also needs to ethnically cleanse the WB of all Jews like they did in Gaza so that the new Palestinain state will not have to suffer the presence of the descendants of apes and pigs.

I chose not to bear the accumulated burden of the past posts of others that you disagree with.

Asking me for my solution is not an argument. At best it is a cheap rhetorical device. I do not have to be able to explain the unified force in order to know that pigs do not fly.

I reject any view that holds one side to be all evil, and the other all good. Collective punishment by definition is cut of the "all evil" cloth.

The majority of Gaza residents, like the majority of residents in Israel, Pakistan, Iraq, or any other place in the world that you care to name, want nothing more than to go about their daily business in peace, unencumbered by political strife or other intrusions into what is generally called their (or our) way of life. When people are unable to do that, generally there is going to be violence against the forces that they believe, rightly or wrongly, to be responsible.

I am sure you would agree that the residents of Gaza are having a very difficult time. The overwhelming majority have lived their entire lives under Israeli occupation. They know no other life. Like most of the world, their understanding of why or how they are in their predicament is deeply flawed. If one grows up understanding that a particular people or country is one's enemy, one pretty much accepts that. (My generation went through something similar during the cold war -- the USSR was evil, communism was unspeakably bad, and nobody much questioned it.)

As a practical matter, Israel must take the lead in breaking the cycle of violence and hatred. Not because Israel is in the wrong, but because Israel (and only Israel) has the ability to do so.

Ultimately, most conflicts are not about religions or ethnic hatreds. Most conflicts boil down to money or power, which are pretty much the same thing. Whatever the solution to Gaza turns out to be, it will be about money. If I'm wrong, tell me, but I'm not aware of any time in history in which a prosperous people have chosen violence and revolution as a way of solving problems. In other words, when people are prospering, they like peace. The Palestinians cannot prosper on their own.

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. . on people's desire to wage war. Yes, this is a good point.

But let's deconstruct that argument. While most Palestinians live in a condition of worsening poverty, some Palestinians are enjoying great prosperity. Those are the Palestinians in leadership positions. Arafat's estate is estimated in the billions. I'm sure there are no published figures on Hamas' salary but their faces never look very gaunt and starved when they issue their frequent public statements in Arabic calling for Israel's destruction. (MEMRI and PMW links on request.)

They maintain their leadership by keeping their people in poverty by attacking Israel in such a way that only be restricting travel and commerce and erecting tall fences and numerous checkpoints can Israel's civilians be protected. This helps to keep their people hating the Jews enough that they support whatever attacks against Israeli civilians their leadership can provide. (At least I have never heard any Palestinians call on their leadership to stop attacking Israeli civilians.) I assure you that the Palestinian leadership (Hamas or Fatah) has taken no vows of poverty for the benefit of the struggle. They seem to do quite well on the millions sent to them from rich Arab oil states, UN relief programs, their far-left donors and their many Arab donors in the west. I assure you no Hamas or Fatah higher-ups live in refugee camps.

So yes, money makes a difference. Money is a critical ingredient in the cycle of violence. As long as these militant groups keep targeting Jews, and killing a sufficient number, I imagine they'll continue to get plenty of it.

unless it chooses to. That's the way it goes.

Sovereign nations can protect their borders and their citizens. They are not beholden to other citizens' welfare, nor are they required to provide aid, comfort, medical care, electricity, or anything else.

Hamas has brought misery upon its people. The only way the citizens of Gaza will find relief is to elect new leadership and throw out the terrorists.

Israel maintains a naval and air blockade over Gaza.

Israel controls the border between Egypt and Gaza.

Is it much more than Israel closing its border with Gaza.

A blockade is not border protection

It is if Israel has reason to believe that an open sea border would result in heavy weapons or explosives being delivered to their enemies, which is surely true. Israel does not control all of the borders of Gaza, merely the ones bordering Israel, or that lack any outside monitoring force. Israel simply can not afford to allow Gaza a border controlled exclusively by Hamas. To do so would be to allow unlimited arms to fall into their sworn enemy's hands.

Israel controls the border between Egypt and Gaza.

This is simply untrue, and recent events have undeniably proven so. Israel has no control over Rafah other than the use diplomatic pressure.

As a practical matter, Israel must take the lead in breaking the cycle of violence and hatred. Not because Israel is in the wrong, but because Israel (and only Israel) has the ability to do so.

This is an often heard comment. I would challenge you as to how Israel can do this. In the past, Israel has broken the cycle, by not responding to rocket attacks for months, pulling out all of their troops and settlers, while leaving behind gardening infrastructure to give Gaza's economy a kickstart. The result was Hamas being swept into power and an immediate and constant resumption of rocket attacks, with increasingly sophisticated rocket designs. If the Qassams are not a huge problem for Israel now, they eventually will be. Technology evens the playing field more and more as time passes.

So the question is, how can Israel permanently break this cycle? Hamas has a single goal, and it is not one that Israel could ever give them. Any advantages Israel offers to the people of Gaza are used against her by the extremists, who are not an unsubstantial segment of the population. You say that "collective punishment" does not work. Israel has few tools at her disposal to affect the attacks from Gaza, the electricity shortages are the single thing that they figured they could do which would have the least negative effect on the civilian population. Israel's point is not to make Gazans suffer, but rather to try and pressure them in a way that is meaningful but which would cause the least amount of real suffering. This strategy is not exactly the kind of "collective punishment" that the framers of Geneva had in mind when they listed it as a war crime, it is not fair to compare it to the kind exhibited during WWII, which is what they meant to prevent. Any action Israel takes is bound to be uncomfortable for the citizens of Gaza... but there's uncomfortable and there's unbearable, which is what life would be if Israel becomes forced to truly end the attacks at some point.

Breaking the cycle of violence is not in any one party's hands, it requires the good will of BOTH sides. Israel has shown her good will following the withdrawal from Gaza, when she ended violent reprisals. But that clearly did not work at all. Since merely ceasing operations in Gaza was not nearly enough, and actually resulted in INCREASED attacks from there, I would argue that the ability to break the cycle actually lies with the Palestinians. If they ceased their attacks, Israel would surely cease her own. Since you disagree though, what do you recommend Israel could possibly do, (which she has not already tried to some extent) to effectively stop the violence?

Btselem disagrees with you.

http://www.btselem.org/english/Gaza_Strip/Rafah_Crossing.asp

I will respond to some of your other points in a while.

The methods described by B'tselem there were all diplomatic in nature. Israel has no direct control over Rafah, as pointed out here...

Ashraf Abu Daya, one of the rally's organizers, appealed for calm from the crowd.

"There is no need to break into the crossing. The crossing is no longer under the occupation. The crossing is under the control of the Hamas Executive Committee," he said. Hamas charges that the government of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas does not want the crossing opened by Egypt because that would help the Islamic group hold on to power in Gaza.

The Hamas takeover triggered the closure of the border crossing, which had been run by Palestinian security with European supervision and Israeli security in the background.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3444502,00.html

Well, let's look at the different sources of information.

I cited to an article from B'Tselem, which discusses in detail the manner in which Israel has retained control over the Rafah crossing.

You counter by citing to an associated press news report of a shooting death during a demonstration at the border. You defer to something shouted by an organizer of the protest in an attempt to calm the crowd ("The crossing is under the control of the Hamas Executive Committee"), and a parenthetical piece of background information provided by the Associate Press ("which had been run by Palestinian security with European supervision and Israeli security in the background")

Let's examine and compare.

First, the claim made by the protest organizer can be discussed out of hand. The Rafah border is most definitely not under the control of Hamas. I think you would agree with that.

The second piece of information in the article you cited is not really information at all. It does not describe what European supervision means and even more uninformative is the reference to "Israeli security in the background." What exactly does that mean?

The B'Tselem article actually explains in detail how the EU supervision works, or more accurately, does not work, and the control exerted by the IDF:

"Israel capacity to close down the crossing stems from it ability to prevent the EU monitors from reaching it. According to the AMA, the Rafah Crossing is open only when the EU monitors are present. When Israel issues a security warning, according to which the crossing is not to be opened, the EU monitors do not take up their post at the crossing, and it remains closed. This occurs, firstly, because the EU monitors believe that the AMA does not permit them to open the crossing when one of the parties to the agreement is opposed to doing so. According to the EU monitors' representative, they are only allowed to open the crossing when Israeli security personnel staff the situation room from which they are supposed to monitor the activity at the crossing. Secondly, the EU monitors, who are reside in Israel, cannot physically reach the crossing when Israel does not wish for them to do so, because in order to do so they first need to pass through the Israeli controlled Kerem Shalom crossing, which Israel closes when there are "security alerts"."

Now you may like to think that physically preventing the passage of EU personnel as "diplomatic" action, but it seems quite the opposite to me.

Israel is calling the shots at the Rafah crossing.

B'tselem is operating under the assumption that unless the EU monitors are present, Rafah is unable to be opened. And it is true that opening the gate without the international monitors present would be a violation of the AMA. But B'tselem is equating Israel's ability to prevent EU personnel from taking their posts with Israeli "control" over the border, which is a little ridiculous. Israel has no soldiers stationed there, the border is entirely under the control, (in the absence of intl. monitors,) of the Egyptians on one side and Hamas on the other. The sole influence Israel can exert on the physical border itself is diplomatic pressure on Egypt to keep the border closed in compliance with the AMA. Saying that Israel "controls" the crossing by way of being able to keep the monitors in Israel is disingenuous, not only because the monitors are merely diplomatic window dressing without any real power, but because under the terms of the AMA they aren't allowed to open the crossing anyway as long as Hamas has exclusive control of the Palestinian side.

This would all be academic, except for the fact that Egypt HAS opened the crossing recently, allowing ordinary Gazans and Hamas members to cross back and forth against the wishes of Israel. If Israel truly did control the crossing, they would not have allowed Hamas to exit and enter at will, and certainly would not have excused them from being searched for weapons, money or other contraband they may have been smuggling back in, which is exactly what Egypt did.

I'm pasting a snippet from the JPost article but will give links to a few other news outlets' take on the story. It is Egypt's original decision to allow pilgrims to exit from Gaza which proved Israel's lack of control over Rafah, IMO. The relatively new development of Egypt subsequently letting them back in against Israel's express wishes and attempts at diplomatic pressure is really the icing on the cake though. There's no longer any question about this. Israel tried to stop them and was unable to do so. They clearly do not control Rafah. Egypt and Hamas do.

Defense officials slammed Egypt on Wednesday after it allowed hundreds of stranded Gazan pilgrims returning from Mecca to cross into the Gaza Strip through the Rafah border crossing.

Palestinian Authority and Hamas officials said Egypt's decision to open the crossing from Sinai was made at the behest of Saudi Arabian King Abdullah.

Officials told The Jerusalem Post that at least two dozen senior Hamas members were part of the group of pilgrims that crossed the border and were believed to be carrying tens of millions of dollars that they had collected in Saudi Arabia. In addition, some of the Hamas members were believed to have undergone advanced military training in Iran.

The pilgrims included former ministers in the Hamas government, as well as senior members of Hamas's military wing, Izzadin Kassam, the defense officials said.

"This is against all agreements," a senior defense official said, saying that Egypt's decision to open up the Rafah crossing against Israeli objections exactly one week after Defense Minister Ehud Barak visited Egypt for talks with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak was "grounds for a diplomatic crisis."

>snip<

Last month, Egypt raised Israeli ire when it unilaterally opened the Rafah crossing and allowed the pilgrims to leave Gaza. Israel had asked Egypt to have the pilgrims return to Gaza through the Kerem Shalom, crossing where they would undergo security inspections by the IDF and the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency).

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1198517273811

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/02/AR2008010201857.html

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-gaza3jan03,1,877582.story

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/03/world/middleeast/03mideast.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

presence and asked the US for approval. So, any way you slice it, if diplomatic pressure fails, they are proposing to take it by force.

The ability to take future control over Rafah by deploying troops is a very different thing than actually having control of Rafah right now. As I said, Israel can only exert diplomatic pressure at this point in time. Whether or not it can get Egypt to do what it wants is immaterial, (and in fact, Egypt does not always do what Israel wants.)

I forget, was it you who argued that Egypt takes its orders from the US and would therefore never dare defy Israel's bidding regarding Rafah?

like it may not, they are moving to the next step. In other words, that crossing will remained under Israeli control one way or another.

so despite egypt opening and closing at will, and no israeli troops are there, hamas declaration that they control rafah, your still claiming that israel controls it?

Time and again you write the same thing. And in this very thread, for example, people have supplied you with information which casts serious doubt on your assertions. And yet you continue as if nothing was said. You don't miss a beat.

Let's not beat a dead horse. At the very least, acknowledge that while it may not match your opinion, there is certainly enough evidence to suggest that Israel does have a say in what happens at that crossing.

Egypt and opened it border several times now...israel has protested to no avail, and last time egypt threatened diplomatic retaliation...what does that mean?


why (and try answering, since no one else has)...is there no pressure on egypt to let in humanitarian aid (but real responses, you can skip the: the roads are too small, rafahs entrance is too small, there is no place to unload the trucks, etc)


___
acknowledge that while it may not match your opinion, there is certainly enough evidence to suggest that Israel does have a say in what happens at that crossing
and what is this evidence?....the only thing i ever read and the info supplied here is related to the EU monitors (which is so out of date, and so irrelevant-ask hamas)

my experience and knowledge about egypt is that they only do whats in their own best interests, no matter what israel says.....

You must be referring to the greenhouses. I happen to know something about this, as I did extensive research on this issue some months ago. Here is what I learned:

The Israeli settlers in Gaza intended to take everything of value from the greenhouses that they could feasibly remove and destroy the rest. A consortium of Americans intervened and purchased the greenhouses from the settlers. The majority of the money supplied for this purchase came from Bill Gates, although he does not get credit for the idea, which was that of an American Jewish businessman.

The greenhouses were not in operable condition when abandoned by the settlers. The Palestinian Authority spent considerable sums getting the greenhouses back in operable condition. When the first crop of commercial products were harvested, they were put on trucks and the Palestinians attempted to export them, but they couldn't get them out of Gaza, and millions of dollars of produce rotted on trucks.

Due to the inability to export the crops grown in the greenhouses, they were shut down.

It is important to understand that the Palestinians grow enough food to feed themselves, and the greenhouses were useful only as providing exports. But since Israel not allow the food exported, they turned out to be a white elephant, draining millions of dollars of Palestinian money for naught.

Of course, Israel trotted out the usual "security concerns" for not permitting the crops to leave Gaza, but more cynical minds believe that Israeli farmers did not welcome competition from the Palestinians.

The usual picture of these events that is portrayed is the contrast between the bustling, productive greenhouses in the hands of the settlers and the dilapidated, vandalized greenhouses in the hands of the Palestinians. The greenhouses are often used as an example of the intransigence of the Palestinians and their tendency to be self defeating.

From my research of the greenhouses, I learned that there are often many layers that have to be peeled away before the truth emerges.

I don't have my research available on this computer, or I would post some citations. It's all on the internet if you do some digging, however.

the greenhouses were destroyed within the first few days that israel left.....the materials were taken by many of the Palestinians for their own uses,...and when repaired....some of the actual guards looted them as well......

btw....I noticed that you havent figured out how to explain that egypt opened its border several times now against israels wishes.....guess that means Israel actually doesnt control the egyptian/gaza border.....

Here's another reputable source:

"Since the elected Hamas government managed to prevent Israeli- and U.S.-backed Fatah militia from taking over Gaza in June, 1.5 million Palestinians have been living under siege, shut off from the outside world. European Union observers have abandoned the Rafah crossing to the Palestinian executive force, which works under complete Israeli control via remote control and video cameras, and the Egyptian military. Together they enforce the Israeli-ordered closure of the border, which comprises seven distinct gates."

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/Sept_Oct_2007/0709010.html

Feel free to post your sources.

humanitarian organizations, international groups say to the contrary, or for that matter how many Israeli groups say, or what the Israeli govt. itself says, there is this stubborn contingent here that denies that Israeli policies are not deliberately targeting the people of Gaza.

The fact remains is that Israel is using the civilians in Gaza as pawns to advance their political agenda, in flagrant violation on international law.

The good news is that people are responding.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x196254

we can just read a map.....can you explain why there is no pressure on egypt to let in humanitarian aid?...or why when some egyptians went to deliver to the gaza the Egytians turned them away?...or why against israels wishes egypt let the gazans back in to gaza? or why some israelis when to protest to the egyptian embassy to open up rafah?

If the issue is just humanitarian and not political, why is there no pressure on egypt?....

Palestenian Executive force?......is fatah.....hamas threw them out in july.....the video cameras...didnt last a month since the when fatah controlled the crossing they delayed the video and that was 2 years ago.

___

to update you Egypt has open the gates for rafah several times now to let and out Palestenians (some hamas members, some for the pilgrimage to saudi arabia.....its been in the news enough....


and according to your little article, the egyptian army takes order from israel

sources for what?
that the guards at the rafah without them the EU cant open the gates...even though the EU fled when Hamas took over?....basic knowledge of july 2007. just do some googling

that israel controls the egyptian army?..sorry i have to links to that, nor are there

egypt opening the gates several times now...if you dont know about that, i'm afraid your knowledge of the goings on is very very very limited.

. . is all Israeli propaganda and is the opposite of the true story as you claim. Unlikely, it seems, but I suppose possible.

One of your claims that doesn't make any sense is this. Whether Bill gates or some consortium including Gates spent the 14 million for app. 100 million worth of greenhouses, I seriously doubt that such a purchase would have been completed without some agreement that sufficient water would be available for their use to produce crops. Were the purchasers really that stupid? And now they don't want to say anything because then we'd know how stupid they were?

You don't suppose this could have anything to do with those reports of Gazans digging up water pipes to use for other purposes - like making rockets, do you?

http://www.think-israel.org/finkel.kassems.html



Also, if the settlers destroyed the greenhouses as you say, one would think this consortium would at least be asking for their money back from the setters whom they paid for the greenhouses, don't you think? Why has this not been a huge story? At least on the surface your claim just does not add up.

But aside from that, I also see another amazing statement. You say the Palestinians can supply all their food needs from inside Gaza.



If this is true, why is Israel being blamed in every other thread on this forum for the starvation and malnutrition of Gazans?

and the truth emerges later to a world that has moved on.

The greenhouse propaganda lives on.

If what you wrote is true, if someone actually made this up for public consumtpion, with the goal of making Gazans look like incompetent animals, I'd like to see it condemned for the evil it is.

lets not be ridiculous here....the same time the synagogues were sent on fire (btw that was pure propaganda...leaving the synagogues as if they were so holy that the they couldnt be destroyed by jews.....knowing full well the Palestenian would immediately destroy them....) the greenhouse were set upon for their materials....live TV coverage at the time. They dont exist today do they?

the greenhouses? Countless times.

Are you going to apologize?

It's evil to the core. Whose job is it to churn that bullshit out, Pelsar? Is there an office of Propaganda?

Is this the settlers' fault?

Doubt it.

that i actually do remember seeing on live tv at the time.....greenhouse were bought and left intack when israel left gaza....they no longer exist.....wasnt anybody in the area but the Palestinians.....

but the poster writes:
Due to the inability to export the crops grown in the greenhouses, they were shut down.

It is important to understand that the Palestinians grow enough food to feed themselves

so according to the poster, there is in fact no food shortage in gaza and the destroyed greenhouses (shown on TV) where just "shutdown')

"I have been a number of natural disasters that knocked electricity out for days."

Should read...

I have been in a number of natural disasters that knocked electricity out for days.

Firstly, fuel has always been supplied to Gaza by an Israeli fuel company called Dor Alon. The last thing I'd read about it, Dor Alon had stated that they were not going to reduce or stop fuel supplies to power plants. The reduction in fuel supplies has been going on for a while and appears to be increasing. For those who make out that it's merely a matter of Israel deciding not to provide fuel to Gaza and making the rather ridiculous comments that they can just get fuel from Egypt, I don't think those folk have been keeping up with things as Israel has stated that the purpose of the fuel cuts is to put pressure on the population so that rocket attacks will stop*. This is collective punishment, which is why the fuel reductions have been condemned by the EU and human rights groups, including Israeli ones, but more importantly if that is the purpose of the reduction in fuel, then if magically Egypt stepped in to fill the void, then the whole point of Israel reducing fuel is gone.

*Israeli officials have confirmed that they have started cutting fuel supplies to the Gaza Strip.
The cuts came into effect on Sunday and will see a reduction in fuel supplies to Gaza by as much as 15 % by the end of this week.

Israel says the decision was taken to pressure ordinary Gazans into stopping rocket fire by Palestinian militant groups into Israel.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7067554.stm

Possibly one of the more bizarre things I've seen on this forum was an attempt to draw a comparison between the power shortages in Gaza and after Hurricane Katrina and the repeated mention that Katrina was a natural disaster. Well, duh. Since when has things like Israel bombing Gaza's power plant and Israel deliberately reducing fuel to Gaza been a *natural* occurence? Of course that's not to be outdone in the absurdity stakes by an American living in one of the wealthiest nations in the world seeming to think that the sort of poverty they'd face in their lifetime in the US is anywhere near comparable to the poverty in Gaza. That's just outright arrogant to the max. What next? They'll be lecturing someone with family in Nigeria and making out that they know better than that person what poverty is like...

But, hey. Maybe they're right. After all, Palestinians don't need electricity or fuel. When you think about it, these are luxury items. Let them all build themselves Fred Flinstone cars! And electricity? People coped fine before it was invented, so if they can't build themselves some huge windfarms or a nuclear reactor, then they should be powerless, both physically and when it comes to electricity! Commerce needing electricity to function? There was a massive blackout throughtout the CBD here a year or two back and while my friends with me at the time swore black and blue all shops and financial institutions closed their doors and stopped trading, I don't believe them! Next thing you know those Palestinians will be complaining and expecting people to be outraged because an Israeli rocket misses its mark and causes a small and temporary blackout!!! ;)

"natural disaster"
Now, they can certainly be called a man-made disaster.

I also wonder why people try to claim that the shortages and associated suffering and public health threat are anything other than the INTENDED consequences of Israeli policy. The policies are not intended to encourage Gaza to form better alliances with Egypt (i wish Egypt did do more to provide aid to the people of Gaza, and did more to defend them against military attack, but that does not absolve Israel as being the designer and originator of this policy of making the people of Gaza hungry). The policy is intended to punish the people of Gaza. That's not a conspiracy theory, that is what Israel's leaders have discussed openly and with great candor.

No human rights organization, no humanitarian organization, has said that Israel has no responsibility in this. All have called on Israel to end the siege.

Bush supports the siege. olmert supports the siege.
Those who care nothing about Palestinian or Arab people.

but I wanted to address this point.

Of course that's not to be outdone in the absurdity stakes by an American living in one of the wealthiest nations in the world seeming to think that the sort of poverty they'd face in their lifetime in the US is anywhere near comparable to the poverty in Gaza. That's just outright arrogant to the max.

Actually, despite America's wealth, the level of poverty experienced by the poorest members of our nation would be astonishing to someone like yourself who lives in a state with an advanced welfare system. After Katrina there were plenty of Americans living in dire poverty that doubtlessly approached the standard of living in many third world nations. And the standard of living in areas like the mississippi delta region has always been very very low by western standards. This isn't something I'm proud of, to say the least. But it's true.

yes, there is really dire poverty here in the US. The wealth goes to the rich and to their wars.

By Agence France Presse (AFP)

Saturday, January 12, 2008

GENEVA: Food is running short for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in the impoverished Gaza Strip, and more aid is urgently needed to prevent a humanitarian crisis, the United Nations' World Food Program (WFP) said on Friday. Some 302,000 people need food aid in Gaza, equivalent to nearly two-thirds of the population not including refugees, WFP spokeswoman Christiane Berthiaume told journalists. "The situation is getting worse by the day," she added. Nearly 70 percent of the 1.5 million people in Gaza live on less than $250 a month, while food accounts for 60 percent of household expenditure. Gaza has been under strict economic sanctions since the Islamist Hamas movement seized power in June, with Israel cutting off food and fuel supplies. Anemia rates have risen to 77.5 percent as Gaza's isolation has deepened, Berthiaume said. The WFP said it has raised its Gaza appeal budget to $141 million due to higher logistical costs and the rising price of foodstuffs. The head of the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees warned on Thursday that the isolation of Gaza was causing untold misery and fostering extremism. "I would like the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza to be acknowledged and there to be some recognition that only a third of the people in Gaza support Hamas," said Karen Koning AbuZayd, head of the UN Relief and Works Agency. "We are seeing evidence of stunting of the children, their growth is slowing, because our ration is only 61 percent of what people should have, and that has to be supplemented." - AFP

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=87969

i hope someday to see the perps at a trial before a world court. Not holding my breath, though.

How far do you think Israel would be ethically justified in going with Gaza? What could Israel do to cut Gaza off without crossing "the line" so to speak?