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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 11:37 PM
Original message
Report: Palestinian textbooks portray Jews badly
JERUSALEM (AP) — Authors of Palestinian school textbooks took small steps toward softening their portrayal of Israel under the rule of moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas — but progress was quickly reversed after the militant Islamic Hamas took over, according to a report released on Tuesday.

The report by the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education and by the American Jewish Committee looked at 120 textbooks published from 2000 to 2006.

The report reflects charges by Israelis that Palestinian textbooks are not in keeping with a peace process that started in 1993. Palestinians counter that Jewish Israeli students are not taught about Palestinian suffering.

Arnon Groiss, author of the report, said most of the textbooks from grade one to 10, issued under the late Yasser Arafat's rule, don't acknowledge any historical Jewish presence in ancient Palestine.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j-Po67fp0fSmPCQGN3nNOmXsJt9QD912V5AG2
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. As does the Arab press, including editorials, cartoons
books (they love the Protocols of the Elders of Zion; it is a bestseller in the arab world).

The denial of Israel as a country, and the dehumanization of Jews goes way beyond the Palestinian textbook.

It is endemic to the entire Arab world.
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notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. And the children
grow up to become..............?
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Such a lonely thread!
Where are the likes of Progressive Muslim and Tom Joad?

Sorry, doesn't fit the narrative.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. This group's narrative has been shown in the past to be just that
a narrative, as in not wholly accurate.

Maybe do a little research on the group...Google is a friend here.

:)
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You can read the report in its entirity including excerpts from the textbooks themselves
Edited on Wed Jun-04-08 11:49 PM by oberliner
The full report can be found here:

http://www.edume.org/research/pa/index.html
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notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Dangerous Propaganda - Sen. Clinton
Senator Hillary Clinton Introducing PMW report on Palestinian schoolbooks
by Senator Clinton

The Senate, Feb 08, 2007

snip..

I have been speaking out against the incitement of hate and violence in Palestinian textbooks for years. In 2000 I joined Nobel peace prize winner Elie Wiesel in New York to denounce the lessons of hatred and violence that are part of the curricula in Palestinian schools. I wrote, with my colleague Senator Schumer, a letter to President Bush, urging his Administration to do everything in its power to persuade the Palestinians to reverse their hateful rhetoric and embrace the opportunity to move toward a strong and lasting peace in the region.

I joined with Itamar at a Senate hearing, where I reiterated the importance of our country making it clear in every way - these children deserves an education that instills respect for life and peace instead of glorifying death and violence. The videos we viewed at that Senate hearing were a clear example of child abuse. I said that at the time and I repeat it again today. Children were encouraged to see martyrdom and armed struggle and the murder of innocent people as ideals to strive for.

Today, we are here once again to release a report that is deeply disturbing, particularly for the denial of Israel’s existence and the historical omissions of the Holocaust, to cite just two examples.

These textbooks do not give Palestinian children an education; they give them an indoctrination. When we viewed this report in combination with other media that these children are exposed to, we see a larger picture that is disturbing. It is disturbing on a human level, it is disturbing to me as a mother, it is disturbing to me as a United States Senator, because it basically, profoundly poisons the minds of these children.

Hate has no place in the curriculum of schools, and the glorification of violence has no place in the education of children.

This propaganda is dangerous. You know, words really matter. Some people sort of downplay the importance of words. But words really matter. Because in idealizing for children a world without Israel, children are taught never to accept the reality of the State of Israel, never to strive for a better future that would hold out the promise of peace and security to them, and is basically a message of pessimism and fatalism that undermines the possibility for these children living lives of fulfillment and productivity.

This has dire consequences for prospects of peace for generations to come.

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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Been there, done that. It is like the swallows coming back every year.
Like clockwork.

The IMPCSTE has pulled this in the past, been shown to be inaccurate by scholars, and has continued its ways.

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Have you read the report?
Which parts of it are under dispute?
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Have you read Nathan Brown's report?
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 12:07 AM by Malikshah
We'll talk then.

Not going to be burned twice.

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I've read the one from 2001
This is the report I've seen:

http://www.geocities.com/nathanbrown1/Adam_Institute_Palestinian_textbooks.htm

His point seems to more about questioning the significance of the findings, rather than the validity of the findings themselves (with a few exceptions).

As he writes in his conclusion: In the long term, then, the specific content of textbooks on issues of Israel, Jews, and war probably matter far less than external critics claim. The set of “facts” that students will retain will come from parents, colleagues, and the immediate environment more than textbooks in any case.

If you would take the time to look at the 2008 report cited in the OP, you would note that the PA had implemented some fairly substantial changes in the content of the textbooks, only to see many of those changes reversed by the Hamas leadership in areaas where they have the power to make such changes.

It seems, then, that the content of the Palestinians textbooks is an issue of significance, not only to organizations such as the one who prepared this newest report, but also to those within the Palestinian community itself.

I'd be curious to get your thoughts on the most recent findings, and what has changed since Brown's analysis of the 2001 report.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
11. Israeli occupation implementers portray themselves badly!!
"Textbooks not in keeping with peace process?" That's pretty funny coming from a nation that continued exponential settlement expansion.

Actually, this scenario is pretty typical.

Israel signs an agreement. Israel flagrantly breaks not only the agreement, but international law and then has the BRASS BALLS to spotlight an absurdly small point on the Palestinian side.

Anyone who believes that Palestinians "hate" Israeli because their textbooks teach them to do so should know that this is patently absurd. There is not one single family in Palestine who has not suffered greatly at the hands of the Israeli occupation, whether thru land loss, home demolition, denial of education, imprisonment, murder, torture, physical injury or humiliation. NOT A SINGLE FAMILY IS UNTOUCHED.

If Palestinian individuals hold Israelis in ill-regard, they do so for good reason.

I know it must be difficult for Israel-supporters to accept that Israel has earned every ounce of anger and ill-will directed toward it. All one needs to do to see the simple truth of this is spend a week under occupation.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. This report was not produced by Israel
The organizations who produced the report are listed in the OP.

The report does not claim that Palestinians hate Israel because their textbooks teach them to do so.

If you take a look at the report, you will note the specific points that are being claimed regarding the textbooks.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. If the report
is true, does it matter who produces it?

"These textbooks do not give Palestinian children an education; they give them an indoctrination. When we viewed this report in combination with other media that these children are exposed to, we see a larger picture that is disturbing. It is disturbing on a human level, it is disturbing to me as a mother, it is disturbing to me as a United States Senator, because it basically, profoundly poisons the minds of these children."

Hillary Clinton (see post #3)
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. That speech was when I realized how far Hillary had sunk.
It was quite revealing of her craven lack of principle.

The IDF does a fabulous job of indoctrinating Palestinian children.
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notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. How can you say
that "you realized how far Hillary had sunk" ?

From her following statement it seems to me she has clearly only the best interests of the children at heart, something which she is well known for.

'The videos we viewed at that Senate hearing were a clear example of child abuse. I said that at the time and I repeat it again today. Children were encouraged to see martyrdom and armed struggle and the murder of innocent people as ideals to strive for.'


Surely you don't believe the children should be taught this hatred?
It's revolting and I agree with Sen Clinton, it's child abuse.

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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. It is revolting, isn't it?
to see how children are indoctrinated to hate, kill and then celebrated for their martyrdom?

It's really time for the Palestinians to invest in a new way of life, one that will improve the minds of their children.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Are you an example of an "improved mind?" How frightening! nt
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. CHILD ABUSE????? Yes indeed. At the hands of the IDF!
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 04:52 PM by ProgressiveMuslim
Read Btselem's website.

CHILDREN murdered by the IDF.
CHILDREN rotting in Israeli prisons.
CHILDREN under administration detention.
CHILDREN abused by the Shin Bet in an effort to get them to collaborate.

LOTS of child abuse indeed!

I have taughtin -- and had my children attend -- palestinian schools and seen the textbooks. This is a total red herring issue, designed to deflect attention from the evil perpetrated against Palestinian children by the state of Israel.

If you believe this nonsense you seriously need your head examined.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. The propagandistic attempt to make the case that Palestinian TEXTBOOKS, rather than treatment at the
hands of IDF is child abuse, is in my opinion, an act of knowing evil.

What kind of sick mind can possess the facts of the situation and make that twisted claim?

It's absolutely mind boggling to me.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Just to be crystal clear: When a Shin Bet agent sodomized my 14 year old relative when he was in
"custody" all night long, THAT IS CHILD ABUSE.

It enrages me that idiots like HRC would dare to minize the actual abuse that those children suffer.
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notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. Damn,
what happened to your 14 year old relative was horrendous, he will be scarred for life from that experience. That is the worst kind of child abuse.

I understand better now, thank you for sharing that, I know it could not have been easy for you.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
45. That is horrific.
I am so sorry that someone could treat a child in this way.

Was the agent ever punished in any way? If not, that's also horrific!
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notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I am trying
so hard to figure out where you are coming from.

Let's say, for the sake of arguement, that it's true that the Israelis abuse Palestinian children, does that make it OK for the Palestinians to abuse them also?

Don't you get that from learning from these books the children grow up and blow themselves up and think all that bullshit about going to paradise.

Surely the kids are worth a helluva lot more than that!

Please help me understand your reasoning.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. What textbooks talks about martyring??? Show it to me!
I've never seen one.

I think the report you're reading is a bunch of bullshit.

Palestinian textbooks do teach a Palestinian narrative.

I think the whole thing is a non-issue.

I am also trying to get where YOU are coming from. The gov't of Israel has conducted the occupation of the WB and Gaza, and then the siege of Gaza, with an iron fist. Do Palestinian kids hate them? I'm shocked that there isn't more hatred! I post on other forums where there are people from the WB who dialogue nicely with israelis. I think the "news" is that every Palestinian DOES NOT hate every Israeli.

That a thinking person like yourself could be hoodwinked by this utter bullshit indicates that the propagandists have achieved their goal of obfuscation.
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notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. Here is some of the text you asked me to show you
Between 2000 and 2005, responding to widespread international criticism of the old textbooks, the PA Ministry of Education issued new textbooks for Grades 1 through 11. This report by Palestinian Media Watch reviews the following new schoolbooks for Grade 12, recently introduced into PA schools:

snip....

One of the most meaningful gauges of the ideology and aspirations of a people is the education of its youth. For this reason, the new Palestinian Authority schoolbooks, introduced in the end of 2006 by the Palestinian Authority (PA) Ministry of Higher Education apparatus, are a continuation of the tragic disappointment of the earlier books. Instead of seizing the opportunity to educate future generations to live with Israel in peace, the PA schoolbooks glorify terror and teach their children to hate Israel, vilify Israel's existence and define the battle with Israel as an uncompromising religious war. Instead of working to minimize the current hate, the new PA curriculum is ingraining it into the next generation’s consciousness, and packaging the war against Israel as existential, mandatory and religious. The new PA schoolbooks are guaranteeing that the next generation will grow up seeing Israel as an illegitimate enemy to be hated, fought, and destroyed, rather than as a neighbor to negotiate with and to ultimately live beside in peace.

A grammar book instructs the children to read carefully about the importance of
Jihad.

1. God bless him and grant him salvation, said: “First and
foremost, Islam its pillar, prayer and its
peak is Jihad.”
(…)
2. The realm of sacrifice and redemption
The honored companions of Muhammad would compete among themselves
in the realm of self sacrifice. None of them stayed behind in a time of Jihad for
Allah, unless there was a critical reason. They suffered injury for Allah, and
were unwavering. None of them minded the injuries to his body or
to his property. Their positions in this matter were numerous and famous. For
example:
- Suhaib Al-Rumi said about himself: “…He did not go on a journey without
me’, and he never went on a raid without having me on his right or
left side.



much more
http://www.spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=1955
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. That's so ironic. Israel is ACTUALLY CREATING a world without Palestine.
The US drones on daily about a clash of civilizations.

Yet the problem is the Palestinian textbooks.

Seriously, do you not see the disconnect here?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. self-delete
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 09:17 AM by oberliner
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Except there we go again
The Arabs used terrorism, war and murder before there ever was an occupation (at least by Israel; there was an occupation by Egypt and Jordan, but no terrorism toward those occupiers).

It isn't about occupation.

It's about Jews in the middle east.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It is true though
The Arab terrorism isn't about occupation.

If it were, Palestinians would have terrorized their previous occupiers: the Jordanians and Egyptians.

Or they would never have started wars before 1967,

But they did.

Again and again.

The truth is so painful sometimes.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. I don't think
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 05:36 PM by notfullofit
Vega, correct me if I'm wrong, describes Arabs that way.

I think she gets frustrated because, to most of us, it seems like if the militants would just quit firing off those damn rockets, life for the Palestinian people would really improve.

Scan through the list of threads here, it's all violence and destruction and always it's the innocent children that pay for it.

I get pissed off too because I know it's gonna get worse and blood of children will be on the hands of both sides.
Then when I see where Hamas says they are going to increase the attacks I just want to scream out loud, stop it, stop it.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Are you at all famliar with the history of this conflict?


What was daily life like in 1987 when the first intifadah broke out?

Palestinians could drive anywhere. They could go from Gaza to Jerusalem to pray. They could attend university in the WB. There was work in Israel.

The latest restrictions are not the issue.

The 40+ year denial of the basic right of self-determination is the issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. There was no effort to gain self determination
under 20 years of occupation by Egypt and Jordan.

Blame those countries, who also refused to incorporate Gaza and the West Bank into their states, and the other Arab countries who have done more to deny the Palestinians basic rights and freedoms than Israel could ever do.

No Palestinian in the entire middle east lives better than those who live within Israel.

And if self determination were the goal, speak to Hamas, who claims that all they want is to annihilate Israel, not have their own state (unless it is one that takes over Israel).
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Willful ignorance. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. Report from 2006: 98% of Gaza's children experience or witness war trauma
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060801183448.htm

Ninety-eight Percent Of Gaza's Children Experience Or Witness War Trauma
ScienceDaily (Aug. 1, 2006) — Most children in the Gaza Strip have been tear gassed, have had their homes searched and damaged, and have witnessed shooting, fighting and explosions. Many have been injured or tortured as a result of chronic war that spans generations, says a recent Queen’s University study.



According to the study, there is a pattern of violence against Palestinian children in the Gaza Strip that has serious and debilitating psychiatric and psychological effects.

“Gaza has been an occupied territory for a long time, and still is; Israel controls its borders, its air and water access. It has been described as a vast open-air detention centre” says Queen’s community health and epidemiology researcher John Pringle. “Bombs are being launched into Gaza during this latest eruption of Middle East violence, but are being ignored in light of other crises.”

The Psychological Effects of War on Palestinian Children is Pringle’s Master’s thesis and the only study of its kind, analyzing data from The Gaza Child Health Survey to describe relationships between war trauma and psychological problems in children.

According to the study, a child in Gaza who has had a severe head injury has 4 times the risk of emotional disorder. A child who has been severely beaten has 3.9 times the risk of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. A child who has witnessed friends injured or killed has 13 times the risk of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. A child in a refugee camp has 5 times a greater chance of witnessing traumatic events and 4 times a greater chance of direct physical trauma.

“Children comprise 47 per cent of Gaza’s population and are extremely vulnerable,” Pringle adds. “It seems the international community is neglecting them, that somehow Palestinian children don’t deserve the protections guaranteed under the Geneva Convention and humanitarian law. We must remember that where we drop our bombs, plant our landmines, and aim our guns, is where children are born, play, and go to school.”

Mr. Pringle is also a member of Doctors Without Borders (MSF). MSF is an emergency medical humanitarian aid organization that primarily works in war-zones with populations in danger, usually in refugee camps. It was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1999.

----------------------------
Yeah... it's the textbooks, stupid.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The textbooks portray Jews in a negative light
As an example, one of the claims made is that Palestinian textbooks include references to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as if it is an actual Zionist founding document when, in fact, it is widely known to be a forgery designed to foment anti-semitism in Europe.

Those are the sorts of issue that the report explores.

The report doesn't say that the textbooks are the reason why Palestinians have anger towards Israel.

Did you read the report?

Do you think that they are not telling the truth about what is in the textbooks or are being manipulative in some way?

Do you think that it is not important one way or another in what light Jews are portrayed in these textbooks?

The primary focus of the report is that there had been a shift in the content of the textbooks away from those sorts of characterizations since Abbas came to power, but that recently Hamas has returned to the older approach in areas where it has power.


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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. What I really think
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 09:51 PM by ProgressiveMuslim
is once agagin, Palestinian words get the focus to obfuscate Israeli deeds. "Portrayal" vs. treament on the ground. The nation that is forcing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians kids to go to be hungry has the fucking gall to expect to be portrayed positively in their textbooks.

You don't see a disconnect there?

I find the utter gall absolutely mind boggling.

And as for the map portrayal. Google "Israel map." How many returns show the WB or Gaza???
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Your comment about the focus on words versus deeds
I think it is a valid point.

However, I would argue that there is such a history of violence, mistrust, and animosity that the only way we will be able to move forward is by encouraging Israelis and Palestinians to gain a better understanding of one another.

One way to do that is to ensure that both Israeli and Palestinian children are being taught in a manner that will enhance mutual understanding rather than inculcate disdain for the other.


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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. ...or, Israel could end the occupation and siege, and treat Palestinians as tho they are human being
instead of animals to be managed.

That could lead to mutual understanding and decrease disdain as well.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. Absolutely
The end of the occupation and the establishment of an independent Palestinian state living side by side at peace with Israel is the most critical step necessary.

And, as you pointed out, it is also crucial that Israeli and Palestinian children start learning to see one another as fellow human beings.

Making sure that textbooks are reflective of that idea would be a positive step.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. All very true
But I think there's an even more necessary and positive step than the textbooks. That would be to actually get Israeli and Palestinian children to meet one another in person, and get to know each other as humans - better still, educate them together.This might seem like an impossible idea, but it's already being tried quite effectively in the village of Neve Shalom.

www.nswas.org
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. So would allowing food through the Erez checkpoint. nt
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Palestinian truck bomber attacks border crossing
GAZA, May 22 (Reuters) - A truck laden with four tonnes of explosives blew up near an Israeli border crossing with the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Thursday but only the suicide bomber was killed in the blast heard 30 km (18 miles) away.

Israeli media reports said soldiers fired at the vehicle as it approached Erez Crossing. An army spokeswoman said it had exploded on the Palestinian side of the frontier, blowing out windows in nearby buildings.

http://africa.reuters.com/world/news/usnL22448089.html

Preventing incidents like this would be helpful.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Deleted message
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Sezu Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Also, the rhetoric that gets used contains a lot more
"kill Jews," than "kill Israelis."
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. That;s true too
The goal is to clear the middle east of Jews, since the problem with Israel is not the occupation of the WB (and formerly Gaza), but of Israel as a Jewish country.


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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. Every time restrictions have been reduced
Palestinians have exploited them in efforts to kill Israelis.

Why don't you get that?

The reason there are checkpoints and a wall is because suicide bombing became the national goal.

The reason that the crossings are closed is because the stupid militants tried to blow up THEIR OWN FOOD AND FUEL (and they still do).

Again, you are directing your anger at the wrong people.

Direct it at the militants (there are lots of them), who have caused all of these restrictions.

Without the militancy, there would be no restrictions.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-06-08 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. I entirely agree.
But how about trying BOTH?

Just in terms of achieving their basic goals, both sides are clearly failing. Anyone might think that Israel wanted Hamas to stay in power forever, and that Gaza couldn't wait to get Netanyahu back as PM.
Both sides need to change - if only on the grounds that their present approaches AREN'T WORKING.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Do you have the link to the whole report? The article you link doesn't mention the Protocols... ??
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Here is a link to the report
Edited on Thu Jun-05-08 09:53 PM by oberliner
http://www.edume.org/research/pa/index.html

The report is a PDF file that can be found on that page. (Titled: "Palestinian Textbooks: From Arafat to Abbas and Hamas")

The reference to the Protocols is on page 8 of that PDF.
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