Livni: Israeli restraint in Gaza is over

Is *that* what they think they've showed?! Oh. My. God.

No endorsing what has happened, but there was much more that could have been done.

They shot at Gazan fishing boats. They prevented medicine and food from France. They stopped journalists from going in, DESPITE an israeli supreme court decision!

Israel has more than its fair share of liars and bloodthirsty murderesses, starting with Livni.

Carpet bombing
Cluster munitions
Mass bulldozing
Long term destruction of basic infrastructure
and much more

I did not say I endorsed what was done, just that there was much more that could have been done.

but at the moment bulldozers have been moved in behind tanks

Yes bulldozers were used, but they did not level large areas en mass based on what was reported. More road and field of fire clearing.

As for the infrastructure, its a matter of degree. Here is an example. To stop power from being used from a hydroelectric dam you can:
- Blow up the dam
- blow up the generators
- blow up the switching station.

- The dam would most likely never get repaired, down stream damage would last for a generation
- The generators would be offline for a couple of years. They are custom made.
- Switching station can be rebuilt in under 6 months.

That is the standard example for level of damage to infrastructure. Pending independent assessments, it looks like the IDF starved the power plants but did not blow the key parts up. Yes its pretty dark in Gaza, but its not going be that way for years.

which were quite extensively damaged and are you talking about the sewage dam I seem to remember reading it was damaged but still holding for now.
Any reconstruction is defendant on Israel allowing materials for that into Gaza something that the Israeli government had adamantly refused to do even before todays bombing.

Until the NGOs and the UN get in there and are able to assess what was damaged and how badly, we don't really know. While some here disagree, the IAF did appear to be selecting targets with some discretion. The key will be the independent assessment.

Israel has total control of the skies and seas. If it actually wanted every Palestinian town wiped off the map and every Palestinian dead, it would already have happened.

Seriously. :shrug: What do they have in their arsenal that they *didnt* use?

- Destroy key basic infrastructure in such a way it would take years to repair.
- Cluster munitions
- Fully occupy Gaza
- Carpet bombing
- Mass bulldozing

As bad as it is, it could have been worse.

are these the kinds of things you expect from Israel at this point?

launch sites or personnel identified as being part of new attacks. The latter seems to be what happened on this last one (no really independent sources on that yet). I doubt that the IDF will turn around and reoccupy Gaza.

but with tanks rolling in again it feels like more death and destruction is likely. Couple that with Netanyahu gaining ground in the polls and it certainly doesnt look good for Gaza.

israel generously left a few of gaza's children alive, palestinians should count their blessings israel is so big hearted.

pointing out that it could have been much worse.

im sure you'll get this thread closed like the others.

Obama said that our hand is open to those with unclenched fists.

Israel has clenched its fist.

I just wish they'd have their election over and done with, though. It's Feb 10th isn't it? I don't think they are formulating a conscious cynical policy of 'let's have a war to rally citizens around us'. But just before an election, all governments tend to think they need to respond far more swiftly and decisively (read, too often, unthinkingly and aggressively) to any crisis that comes up.

Israel is deliberately choosing unreasonable force and there should be consequences for that.

negotiations off the ground.

Do you think the IRA and Protestant paramilitary factions were behaving perfectly when the peace-process started in Northern Ireland?

we badly need to be engaged there.

If Hamas had said this today, would the Obama administration be rewarding them with a diplomatic visit tomorrow?

Of course not.

Livni is saying this shit for the sake of upcoming elections. It's time to send a message that rhetoric such as this will impact US/Israeli relations.

I know Mitchell would never "reschedule" his visit, but please allow me to pretend that I live in a world where there isn't a glaring global double-standard when it comes to Israel.

The visit tomorrow isn't a reward. It's an attempt to start some movement on talks between the parties.

Pretend away, but I think it's better to live in the real world instead of entertaining fruitless fantasies.

C'mon.

I wouldn't be surprised.

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There have been mortars and cross border fire since the IDF withdrew which caused casualties. If that does not stop, neither will the IDF

Instead, Israel decapitates the leadership whenever it gets a chance.

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We are, after all, responsible for the deaths of about a million citizens in Iraq.

Progressives want countries that are doing the wrong things to CHANGE. Not to be destroyed/nuked/'fucked'.

Israel won't change.

Go ahead and want it to your heart's content.

They think the world was made just for them and they can do whatever they want to anyone else.

Same goes for the radical Xtians and Muslims.

how ignorant.

people who advocate genocide here need a pizza- badly.

gotta keep the coffers full of american money.

Mitchell should read her the fucking riot act- and that goes for the rest of Israel's politicians.

it has become a contest of who can bomb better.
As far as Mitchell "reading the Israeli government the riot act" that will do little good at the moment we will se what if anything changes after the elections.