Top U.S int'l official: There's no way to stop Iran's nuclear program

"There's no way and no chance to stop the Iranian nuclear program," said Republican congressman and House Intelligence Committee Chairman Peter Hoekstra in an interview to the independent American news site Newsmax.

The congressman, who has access to top secret information, indicated that an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities would be "incredibly difficult and complex."

Hoekstra explained that while > Israel's attack on a Syrian complex several months ago completely destroyed in a single blow what the committee believes was a nuclear reactor site, the case with Iran is entirely different.

"In Iran you must conduct several attacks on very complicated targets with extreme precision," he said.

When asked if the United States would intervene if Israel was to attack Iran's nuclear facilities, Hoekstra replied that "It's possible. Because if Israel decides to attack, it would be a broad and extensive assault."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1059583.html

They should read the "Shock Doctrine" and wake up.

And that's just sad.

I'm still trying to figure out why we can trust Israel with nuclear reactors (for civilian purposes only, no really! Really really!), but not Iran.

They've had the bomb since the 1960s or 70s according to most experts...

Of the "wink wink nudge nudge" sort

But they are besides the main point anyway... Israel can legally have reactors and pursue nuclear weapons if it really wants to. But it's against the law for Iran to build nukes.

So we really MUST concern ourselves with Iran's intentions.

Besides that, we SHOULD be anyway.

Please tell me why Iran cannot be allowed civilian nuclear facilities, Shaktimaan. Somehow we can trust other NPT signees with civilian nuclear technology. Somehow we can trust non-signees such as Israel, India, and Pakistan with nuclear weapons.

Why exactly must Iran be barred its legal right to nuclear energy? Iran is a vociferous proponent of all three "WMD" treaties, due to losing tens of thousands of its own from US and German-supplied chemical and biological weapons used by the Iraqis. Iran has never launched an aggressive war against any of its neighbors. No agency has found any intent from Iran to break the treaty and produce weapons. In fact the only smudge on Iran's record here is the loudmouth diplomat-approver and ribbon-cutter Ahmedinejad, who pounded the pulpit for Iranian nuclear technology alongside his asinine rants - both of which were in response to threats from the US.

So please explain to me, Shaktimaan, why we MUST concern ourselves with Iran's nuclear industry, but not, say, Norway, Germany, Botswana, Mongolia, or any other nation's? Why is cramming our noses up just Iran's buttcrack an imperative? I would ask if it's due to race or religion, but I guess you're cool with Pakistan's nukes, since you're not here demanding we do something about that, so I guess that's not it. So, why?

Norway, Germany, Botswana, Mongolia, or any other nations have not threatened either Israel or any other country, neighbouring or far away.

Iran howver has threatened numerous times to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, using various wordings.

See: Just how far did they go, those words against Israel? - NYT

Ahmadinejad's words against Israel - Boston Globe and Mail

/cue pathetic effort to deny that Iran ever said such a thing, it's all a misunderstanding, and all they want is rainbows and butterflies. :sarcasm:

You know the President of Iran has absolutely no military authority whatsoever, right? Nor, for that matter, does he have any authority regarding nuclear energy. He approves ambassadors, speaks at functions, and cuts the ribbons for Mullah-Mart grand openings. The Iranians are real careful with the powers they give their president.

Suuuure. And the Mullahs just lurve Israel. Love it to death.

This does not translate into "OMG TEH NOOKZ!" however. You see, Henank, no matter what a generation's worth of propaganda has told you, the Iranians aren't out to kill the fuck out of everyone.

They should be subject to the same scrutiny as anyone else in the NPT - No more, no less. Unfortunately for Iran, they pray towards Mecca. If only they prayed by whacking their foreheads against a wall instead of a rug, we could trust them!

Cry bigotry all you want, this has nothing at all to do with religion.

And I disagree with you. I think that Iran should be subject to more scrutiny than say, Holland. Not because of their religion, though you would clearly love to try and convince others that that's what the issue is, but because of their government's policies, actions and ideology. Iran is deserving of more scrutiny because it is a fundamentalist dictatorship whose values stand in stark contrast to liberal democracies; one with newly unchecked influence in the Middle East that is clearly going to be developing nuclear weapons. Holland is not.

Neither the US nor Israel has ever shown itself to have any ideological problem with having allies in the Muslim world. Our mistrust of Iran has no more to do with their religion than our mistrust of N. Korea has to do with their lack of religion.

You see, Henank, no matter what a generation's worth of propaganda has told you, the Iranians aren't out to kill the fuck out of everyone.

Good Lord, what are you even talking about? Who ever said that the Iranians are out to kill everyone? And is that your standard for allowing states to develop nuclear weapons? "Are they trying to kill the fuck out of everyone? No? OK then, no problem, let's give them the neutron bomb." You probably oppose Israel's bombing of Iraq's nuclear facilities in the 80's too.

Let me ask you something... why would Iran possibly be spending so much money on underground, dispersed nuclear facilities if its interest in nukes was solely electricity creation? In fact, why would Iran be interested in nuclear power at all when it is exponentially cheaper for it to just use its natural resources instead, not to mention all the diplomatic trouble its nuclear facilities have been creating for them?

Why would anyone choose to spend more money on creating the electricity they need, unless their interests lay beyond mere electricity production?

Especially in this little section of DU!

"but because of their government's policies, actions and ideology"

All of which I've already laid out in previous posts. Obviously you didn't understand prior to me doing so, nor do you understand after my doing so. You cannot pull a single example of what, in particular, about their "policies, actions, and ideology" should bar Iran from having the same right to nuclear energy as any other nation. You apparently expect me to just nod and agree, even though you are providing no factual basis for your argument. "Oh, the Iranians have a bad policy, okay, you're right!" Sorry... that's not going to happen.

Who ever said that the Iranians are out to kill everyone?

Well, that would be you, sir, and the others posting that Iran can't be allowed to have nuclear energy because they're crazy and will build a bomb and will blow up Israel! And of course Israel has it's little policy of not going down alone and suddenly Damascus, Riyadh, Mecca, Tehran, Baghdad, Amman, and Cairo all have mushrooms floating overhead, to join Tel Aviv.

And is that your standard for allowing states to develop nuclear weapons?

Oooooh, nicely framed! We're talking about Iran's energy production, buddy. They're not trying to build a bomb.

You probably oppose Israel's bombing of Iraq's nuclear facilities in the 80's too.

Well, see here's the funny thing about Osiraq. A couple funny things actually
1) Saddam had clearly stated his intent to develop nuclear weapons
2) Saddam had decided to invade a neighboring country the year before
3) Saddam had already acquired and made use of chemical weapons the same year (Well, that one's not very funny)
4) This is the funniest part... Israel was actually aligned (though not allied) with Iran during the Iran-Iraq war.

When a crazy motherfucker goes "Hey, I'm going to build me a bomb and drop it on the people I'm trying to eradicate!" I'd say that's a huge difference from some misanthrope in a black turban who goes "Well, we'd like some electricity"

Let me ask you something... why would Iran possibly be spending so much money on underground, dispersed nuclear facilities if its interest in nukes was solely electricity creation?

Because Israel and the US have both declared any and all nuclear facilities to be legitimate targets? Possibly because that's where they were being built back in 1977 when we first started selling the shit to the Shah?

In fact, why would Iran be interested in nuclear power at all when it is exponentially cheaper for it to just use its natural resources instead

That's a really funny question to see on DU, with all the people (including myself) who think the US should get off the petroleum teat. What, are we the only nation that should decrease its oil consumption or something?

Well, first, they want to sell that oil to us. Even with prices lower than they were a year ago, the Iranians still stand to make a pretty decent wage off of oil they sell to those nations which still depend on it - the United States and China, for instance. The less oil they're burning, the more they're selling. It definitely defrays the costs.

Second, petroleum is nasty stuff. We all know this, It pollutes, and burning it adds to that little thing called climate change. Now say what you like about Iran, but they're actually pretty good when it comes to the environment of their country. Like the United States, they see the problems and expenses of being stuck on petroleum, and want something better. Nuclear power is a good stopgap between fossil fuels and purely renewable energy. And with the developments regarding using fusion to recycle spent reactor fuel, the environmental impact could be very low.

not to mention all the diplomatic trouble its nuclear facilities have been creating for them?

Why is it Iran's fault that the United States is breaking international law by trying to prevent Iran from having nuclear energy, and furthermore using the threat of force to do so? Should Iran cave to our pressure to halt their program, thus justifying our own criminality? Fuck no.

Why would anyone choose to spend more money on creating the electricity they need, unless their interests lay beyond mere electricity production?

Same reason we're not a wood-burning, steam-powered, horse-drawn nation anymore, Shaktimaan. It costs money to upgrade, but they payoff makes up for it - and in Iran's case, they can further defray costs by selling their wood oil to the rest of us.

Aren't you?

It's not because of race or religion though. Pakistan is an unstable dictatorship that has strong, fundamentalist, anti-US movements seeking to overthrow the government. Who in their right mind wouldn't be worried about that? If India was as unstable as Pakistan then I'd be worried about it as well. But it's too late to stop them... Pakistan already has nukes. There's not much we can do about it as of right now.

So please explain to me, Shaktimaan, why we MUST concern ourselves with Iran's nuclear industry, but not, say, Norway, Germany, Botswana, Mongolia, or any other nation's? Why is cramming our noses up just Iran's buttcrack an imperative?

Because Iran is a signatory of the NPT who is preparing to circumvent it. If Mongolia or Bosnia wanted nuclear weapons I would be just as concerned. Well, not quite AS concerned.

Why exactly must Iran be barred its legal right to nuclear energy?

It should not be. It should only be prevented from acquiring nuclear weapons. But that is exactly what it is doing.

In fact the only smudge on Iran's record here is the loudmouth diplomat-approver and ribbon-cutter Ahmedinejad

You don't know much about Iran, do you?
You really don't think that they pose a threat to anyone or that they are even thinking of building nuclear weapons... you honestly see no reason to be concerned, do you?

OK, let me ask you something... why do you think Iran is so committed to spending all that extra money just so their energy can be nuclear?

"Because Iran is a signatory of the NPT who is preparing to circumvent it."

Allow me to make this as simple as possible.

Give me some fucking proof or shut the fuck up.

Your ball.

It self-evidently has nothing to do with a bogus NPT.

Officially, the US does trust Pakistan with these weapons. The only lack of faith is in the strength of Pakistan's government. It's currently on the razor edge of collapse.

Iran, on the other hand, has a pretty stable government that's not in any danger of falling to a more dangerous coup.

So, what is this reason of yours?

All that an Israeli preemptive attack would accomplish is to start World War Three and drive gasoline back up to $6-10 a gallon.

Anyone contemplating such a thing has a Masada Complex.