AP: Divisive Lieberman a big winner in Israel election

Divisive Lieberman a big winner in Israel election

By ARON HELLER, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 47 mins ago

JERUSALEM – One of the big winners of Israel's election Tuesday is its most divisive politician, an ultranationalist settler who owes his surging political fortunes to Israeli Jews' deepening distrust of the country's Arab minority.

Avigdor Lieberman hopes to redraw Israel's borders to push areas with heavy concentrations of Arabs outside the Jewish state and under Palestinian jurisdiction.

Those who remain would be forced to sign an oath of loyalty to the Jewish state, and anyone who refused would lose the right to vote or run for office. Some 20 percent of Israel's 7 million citizens are Arabs and about a dozen serve in parliament.

"Without loyalty, there is no citizenship" was Lieberman's campaign slogan, which was plastered nationwide across buses and billboards.

According to exit polls, Lieberman's Yisrael Beiteinu, or "Israel is Our Home" party, has become the third-largest faction in parliament, making him the power broker on Israel's fractured political scene.

"It is up to Lieberman who will form the next coalition," said Menachem Hofnung, a professor of political science at The Hebrew University in Jerusalem. "Lieberman has emerged as the kingmaker. He is the winner of these elections and whoever he sides with will be prime minister."

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090210/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_lieberman_profile_1

Or have they already succumbed?

The majority may have done this to themselves, but that doesn't mean that good people wanting to do the right thing don't remain.

My feelings are sincere.

I've spent the past 8 years separating the people of this country from their government and I'm willing to extend the same benefit of the doubt to Israelis.

I do not blame them for the propaganda they have been fed.

I appreciate your response, but I just don't believe it.

and purported concern from anyone else is phantom anti-semitism?

I'm Arab, does that mean I'm exempt (ie I have a valid basis for being interested)? Although I suppose being Arab is evidence of anti-semitism anyway...

Incidentally, have you ever been there? Because in all honesty, you speak as though it is simply an abstract concept for you...

No, I did not. So take your ad homs and false assertions and be gone.

when you made the remark "why would you care?".

It might be more illuminating than simply posting a single-sentence rebuff.

A bit less evasive, too.

Do you teach poli sci or history? Come on, fess up.

While Netanyahu and the Likud hardliners definition of "greater Israel" includes everything west of the Jordan River, it gets much worse for the ultra-extremists. Their idea of "greater Israel" goes back to borders that God gave to Abraham a long long time ago, which would extend Israel "from the Nile to the Euphrates".

Of course God mentioned this huge piece of land to old Abe before he had any kids, and told Abe he would be the father of MANY (not one) nations. Yet there are those among both the extreme Israeli right, and some "Christian" Zionists like John "Fat Bastard" Hagee who literally believe that God gave all that land to only one of Abe's sons, Isaac, and that Ishmael didn't get shit.

Isaac being the ancestor of the Jews, and Ishmael being the ancestor of the Arabs, of course. And these "Biblical borders" wackos believe that Israel MUST be expanded to those borders in order for the Messiah to show up (whether they believe it will be his first trip, or second).

Not sure if Netanyahu would go this far, but Lieberman certainly would. (Avi, not Joe)

But Netanyahu is the one spinning the lies & hysteria about Iran, and that's bad enough. :scared:

Ultra rightests from the former Soviet block holding the balance of power. Lose/lose -probably more so for Israelis than anybody else. What little good will they've got left in the world is going to diminish even further.

While some, including the Targum, may take "River of Egypt" to mean the Nile as we understand it today, most commentators I've seen say otherwise. The Targum is just a commentary, after all, not holy writ, and the interpretation that you get is the interpretation of an interpretation, one made after a branch of the Nile dried up and was forgotten, a branch that was rather near Sinai--a problem, but not the all-encompassing problem it's made out to be, threatening Cairo itself. Israel wasn't far from it not long ago.

The part of the Euphrates intended involves Syria, not Iraq.

Zealots on both sides maximize the area included, for their own reasons--to whip up pro-Zionist passion or anti-Zionist anxieties. Measure it by ancient trade and invasion routes, not as the crow flies, and you get a more reasonable if still unreasonable picture.

isn't a "Biblical wacko" - he's an atheist, AFAIK

(and it's Ivet, not Avi, which would be short for Avraham)

He has more in common with Pat Buchanan or LePen than with religious loonies.

He wants to kick the Israeli Arabs out, but isn't interested in taking over land elsewhere. Nor is he interested in imposing religious laws on the country. In fact, the religious party Shas has already attacked his party for its secularism.

I'm not saying this to defend him - as far as I'm concerned ALL variations on the far right-wing are the devil! (Shas actually did describe Lieberman's party as Satan.) But the lack of unity among Israeli far-RW groups and parties may limit the power that they can get. I certainly hope so. Nothing sweeter to a leftie than a circular firing-squad on the far right.

*this* is what happens (sometimes). Could you imagine a bloc led by Palin or Ron Paul running in 2010 and having the kind of kingmaking power in this country that Lieberman has in Israel now?

Maybe this post doesn't seem germane to the discussion this thread is about, but these thoughts always occur to me whenever I think of the Israeli electoral system.

Although I doubt he could get 12% like Lieberman apparently did.

Britain is too much at the other extreme; but I'd rather have that than the BNP in the role of power-broker.

The problem with the Israeli form of pr is that it lets you get a party into the Knesset with a very small share of the vote.

While that's loathesome, it's a risk you've got to take.

If Israel had had First-past-the-post,(the model the U.S. and the former British Empire countries use)Beitenyu or something like it would have found other ways to adopt. They'd have taken over the Likud party(as the religious and economic right took over the GOP here or the monetarists did with the Tories in the UK), or established control in local governments as far right parties did in the Netherlands and in parts of Britain.

These groups always find a way.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061172.html

i wonder what obama/hillary is going to do to appease this racist russian piece of crap

in the region. The Isreali Communist party ran in this election. They are just beginning to form up as is the Palestinian Communist Party.

With the deep class divisions in both regions it should be interesting to see how this develops. I don't see how either Hamas or the newly elected right wing government of isreal are going to be equipped to deal with it. My guess is that in a few years, to maintain the status quo, the both sit down for tea and crumpets.

I have a feeling by then it will be too late. Israeli as well as Palestinian secularists are kind of in a pinch. The political establishment in Palestine as well as isreal completely dissregard these people and they really have no places to go. Should be interesting to see how they align themselves here.

Hamas, Hezbollah and the Isreali government really have shown very little evidence that they are interested in the well being of the working classes in their respective regions. Both sides have seen these people undergo immense suffering and struggle while completely ignored.

I place my money that in a few years the socialists win this one out.

n/t.

Lieberman ends up with 4-6 seats less than he was polling at just a few days and weeks ago.

What happened to that Kadima-Likud unity coalition? :rofl: :spray:

I've not seen this announced.

Netanyahu: No rotation with Livni

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3670468,00.html