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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 07:54 PM
Original message
Sovereignty in Israel
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On the national political level, Israel certainly has some degree of sovereignty. Unlike the situation 2,000 years ago, when Israel was physically living under Roman rule, today Israel has its own state institutions such as a parliament, court system, army, etc. Moreover, Israel maintains diplomatic, cultural and economic relations with countries throughout the world, participates in a variety of international forums, is a member of the United Nations, and more. However, despite the outer appearance of full sovereignty, the last 15-20 years have told another story.

In a progressively more blatant manner, the upper echelon of Israel's political leaders have more or less said, both in words and in actions, that Israel must do as America says, regardless of whether or not this action is good for the Jewish state. Be it in reaction to Palestinian acts of terror, the nature and length of wars in Lebanon and Gaza, the sale of military equipment to China, etc., the deciding factor is whether or not we have the 'green light' from America. Similarly, the near consensus to work towards the creation of a Palestinian state, the 'two-state solution', is sheepishly moved forward with hardly a dissenting voice, despite the obvious dangers to all, simply because this is what America wants.

Apparently for many reasons, chief among them most likely economic and political, Israel's leadership is hesitant, if not frightened, to go against the will of America. They simply fear the consequence of going against a superpower, even one which is relatively losing it dominance compared to other powers in the world. Nonetheless, and despite whatever rationalizations they might have, many of which might be justifiable for various reasons, their open display of unabashed adherence to the demands of American leadership questions the whole notion of our true political sovereignty.

Another example that brought this question to the forefront was witnessed in the recent elections. Rather than seriously addressing the Israeli public about real issues and problems, the leading candidates invested a lot of time trying to prove who would work better with President Barack Obama. Obviously, there is nothing wrong with having good relations with America and its president; however, when this becomes a central issue in Israeli national elections, then certainly our whole status as a sovereign nation state becomes rather suspect.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/8636
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Let's talk about how American sovereignty has become subservient to Israel's
Edited on Tue Mar-10-09 08:02 PM by IndianaGreen
The only good thing that will come out of the incoming crypto-fascist Bibi/Lieberman regime is that even Joe Six Pack will see Israel for what it really is, and it ain't pretty.

Israel's Racist Minister of Foreign Affairs
By Reuven Kaminer

It might be difficult for the uninitiated observer to accept the fact that a racist, crypto-fascist politician is on his way to becoming the second most important figure in the Israeli political arena. It is, therefore, worth re-establishing the factual basis of the charge that we are dealing with the truly ugly face of racism, pure and unadulterated. Avigdor Lieberman is on his way to becoming the Minister of Foreign Affairs in Netanyahu’s new government.

It is clear that the person who shouts “fire” in a crowded theatre cannot claim the privilege of free speech and is responsible for the results of his action. Compare this with the prominent political figure, Avigdor Lieberman, who in Israel centered his recent electoral campaign on the slogan: No citizenship without loyalty.

The slogan, which is only one of the many items in Lieberman’s racist arsenal, is a clear provocation directed against Israel’s Arab population which comprises one fifth of Israeli citizens. Lieberman asserts that Israeli Arab citizens must be assumed to be insufficiently loyal to the state since they refuse, naturally enough, to support Israeli consensual policies on major political issues. Lieberman’s justification of his plan is also revealing. The loyalty oath is not racist, he argues, because it will be administered to all Israeli citizens. But only those who do not pass the test will have their citizenship revoked.

It should be clear to any objective observer that Lieberman’s program is a declaration of war against Israel’s Palestinian minority which comprises a fifth of the population. In our society, which lives on from one war to the next, in a sickening atmosphere of seething hatred and hostility one can, it has been proven, win many votes by calling for the disenfranchisement of 1.5 million Israeli Palestinians. It should be clear that what comes after disenfranchisement is ethnic cleansing…

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/8228/

The OP's article is more of the same crap of Israel always portraying itself as a victim, when in fact it is the United States of America that has been victimized by Israel.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It works both ways, believe it or not.
The disfunction is symmetrical. But the USA will still be here when Israel is rubble.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. When Israel is rubble?
Can you explain what you mean by that?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Israel is following a path that will lead to her self-destruction
We warned you so!

Bibi/Lieberman!
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-10-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Israel is small and weak. The USA is not.
"Rubble" is a figure of speech, if that helps.
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henank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. But you and others here
are always claiming that Israel is being paranoid when it claims it is the weaker side. Many people on this forum claim that Israel is a mighty superpower, that it doesn't need nukes because it is stronger than any other country in the Middle East.

So I would love an explanation from somebody here as to how Israel will end up in real or allegoical rubble.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. You won't find me saying that. Search the whole archive.
I consider Israelis "paranoia" to be well-founded.
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. How has the US been victimized by Israel? np
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Israels "representatives" in the US
who wish to "guide" foreign policy according to Israels interests which of course they claim are identical to America's just ask Chas Freeman
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. So influence is the equivalent of vicimization to you?
just ask Chas Freeman

So then do you see american politicians who opposed his appointment as "representatives of Israel?"

What do you suppose would happen if a US politician, say the president, decided upon policies that were strongly opposed by AIPAC?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-11-09 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. Wow. Just goes to show that all RW xenophobes are fundamentally alike
Reverse the names of the countries, and this could be by Pat Buchanan!

The Israeli xenophobic-isolationists are slightly more accurate than their American counterparts here, as America is a bigger country and holds the purse-strings over Israel, rather than the other way round. But this article goes to paranoid extremes, just like its mirror-images.
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