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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 11:23 AM
Original message
Jerusalem families waiting for US action
In the early morning hours of Sunday, 2 August, a force of hundreds of police and border guards invaded the quiet East Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah and systematically evicted the sleeping Hanoun and Gawi families from their homes. The sun dawned upon a new reality: chaos in the streets, children crying and elders in anguish. The police blocked every entrance to the area, preventing friends from coming to the aid of the distressed families or even helping them to remove their belongings from their homes. Revealing prior coordination with the authorities, the homes were quickly occupied by ultra-orthodox Jewish settlers.

The Hanoun and Gawi families, consisting of 16 and 38 members, respectively, lived in their homes for 53 years. Built in 1956 by the UN and the Jordanian government (who had sovereignty over East Jerusalem at the time) as part of a temporary housing complex for refugees of the 1948 war, these were homes for those who already knew eviction and ethnic cleansing. However, this time the dispossession was accomplished "legally."

Since the 1967 conquest of the West Bank and Gaza, Israel has been building settlements along the eastern flank of Jerusalem to prevent expansion of its Arab neighborhoods. Moreover, within the past 20 years, the Israeli settlement project has begun encroaching upon the Arab neighborhoods themselves, installing nationalist Jewish families within their perimeters by force. Slowly but relentlessly, Israel is attempting to Judaize these neighborhoods in a manner designed not to attract international scrutiny and criticism.

Thus Maher Hanoun, the head of the Hanoun family, was ordered by Israeli courts to hand over the keys to his home to the Association of Sephardic Jewry on 19 July. Rather than comply with the court order, he held a press conference outside his house accompanied by several top officials, including Nils Eliasson of the Swedish Consulate representing the European Union, Robert Serry representing the UN, and Dr. Rafik Husseini of the Palestinian Authority. They all condemned the proposed eviction, calling it an affront to norms of international justice. In spite of US President Barack Obama's call to freeze Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, no representative from the US was present.


http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10709.shtml">full story - read more
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Funny how EI never mentions the POV that it was a commercial dispute over violation of a lease
Then again, its EI, we should know better and have diminished expectations from them
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That might lead people to think that this was an orchestrated political stunt.
EI wouldn't want that.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. EI is right there with World News Daily in many ways
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. sorry you have a problem with leftist views
perhaps a message board "generally supportive of progressive ideals" isn't for you?

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Perhaps a message board that "supports Democratic candidates for political office" isn't for you
Since EI has consistently been antagonistic towards Democratic candidates for political office, including our current president.
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I do support Democratic candidates for political office
There goes your theory
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. So do some readers of "Commentary"
I don't think it's fair for you to attack that person for citing that source when you used the source that you did.

That is my only point here.
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Your problem is you equate the sources
You equate right-wing gossip sources with progressive ones on the basis that both have disagreements with Obama.

A rather flimsy argument!
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I don't think EI is a progressive source
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 02:41 PM by oberliner
I don't think it's progressive to attack Obama and Abbas for seeking a peaceful two-state solution.

Edit to add: Their position regarding the conflict is in line with that of Pat Buchanan and other Paleoconservatives.

I've never heard of any Democrats in Congress speaking out against the two-state solution as EI does - have you?
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. EI is a very progressive source
You obviously have misunderstood their positions, given your inaccurate characterizations.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. They are far from progressive
on a different axis than WND, but about as far out.
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Ridiculous.
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 03:45 PM by subsuelo
Unless opposing war crimes and supporting human rights is now considered a "far from progressive" view, your comment is absurd.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. If they really did what you say, you would be right
There is no consensus on EI in the community and your insistence will not make it so.

There are much better sources to cite in the Middle East, why not use a credible one.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. And what do you consider to be a credible source? n/t
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Can you identify one inaccurate characterization?
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 03:58 PM by oberliner
I have characterized them as being opposed to the two-state solution, opposed to Obama's position on the conflict, opposed to both Obama's and Abbas's approach to the peace process.

Can you tell me which one of these characterizations is not accurate?
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. That's not what you wrote above
You wrote that they "attack" Obama and Abbas "for seeking" a 2-state solution.

Not quite what their position is, although now I'm getting into defending what someone else says, and for that I would refer you to their own material rather than my interpretations.

What I believe EI has said is that a two-state solution is unachievable. So when you state that they "attack" Obama "for seeking" a 2-state solution, well yeah, that's definitely an inaccurate characterization.

Anyway, I see in this post you've softened your characterization by saying they are "opposed to Obama's position". That's a bit more honest than saying they "attack Obama for seeking" a two-state goal, isn't it?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. EI - Obama in Cairo: A Bush in sheep's clothing?
From the article, it is clear what the author thinks about Obama's pursuit of the two-state solution:

This raises the question of where Obama thinks he is going. He summarized Palestinians' "legitimate aspirations" as being the establishment of a "state." This has become a convenient slogan that is supposed to replace for Palestinians their pursuit of rights and justice that the proposed state actually denies. Obama is already on record opposing Palestinian refugees' right to return home, and has never supported the right of Palestinian citizens of Israel to live free from racist and religious incitement, persecution and practices fanned by Israel's highest office holders and written into its laws.

He may have more determination than his predecessor but he remains committed to an unworkable two-state "vision" aimed not at restoring Palestinian rights, but preserving Israel as an enclave of Israeli Jewish privilege. It is a dead end.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10576.shtml

I believe that this article referring to Obama in its headline as "A Bush in sheep's clothing" constitutes an attack. You disagree?

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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. The problem is you aligned them with conservatives
Which made your portrayal in the post above inaccurate.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. EI is hoist on their own petard. Oberliner is just point out their long held positions.
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 09:57 PM by ProgressiveProfessor
Being anti Israel does not make it progressive. The real world is not that binary

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Correct me if I'm wrong, but EI is made up of articles from many writers...
It doesn't have one set opinion as there's many different writers who contribute, and I would have thought Oberliner at least would be aware of that.

And what does 'anti-Israel' mean? From what I've seen there's nothing progressive about using that label, as it's very similar to the 'anti-America' label right-wingers love to throw at people who opposed the US-led invasion of Iraq...
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. rotflol - if you consider pro-Fatah and pro-Hamas positions to be progressive, it's no wonder...
...your positions are so far out in rightfield regarding I/P.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. Maybe two or three READERS of Commentary support the Democratic party...none of its editors do
Or its writers. They've been backing the Dark Side ever since our party dared to defy them and not nominate Scoop Jackson for president...thirty-seven freaking years ago.

Before that, Commentary cheered for Daley and the cops in Chicago. And they loved them every bomb ever dropped on Vietnam. And after that they loved them a mess of Contras.
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. perhaps because EI isn't a right-wing gossip rag?
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 02:04 PM by subsuelo
when I want to hear right-wing justifications for kicking families out of their homes, I'll turn to you for sources. Deal?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. They certainly don't support anyone who works for a two-state solution
They are disdainful of such a concept and have great vitriol for any attempts by Obama or, for that matter, Abbas, in that particular direction.

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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Not all progressives agree on every issue. nt
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. It is certainly not progressive
It and WND are little more than fringe propaganda rags. To cite either of them as meaningful, thoughtful, or progressive is laughable. There are much better and more honest sources for news in at that area.

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. I don't think anyone would take what yr opinion of *progressive* is seriously...
That you try to equate a conservative nutjob rag like WND with EI shows that you have no understanding of what propaganda is, nor what the big difference is between the two. WND is an extremely bizarre and extremely right-wing piece of shit, while EI is partisan on the I/P conflict. Partisanship doesn't mean that something is dishonest or fringe propaganda. It means that like the many equally biased in the other direction sites that are partisan in favour of Israel (and despite the large number of links posted in this forum to those sites, not once have you ever spoken up and accused them of being fringe propaganda), there will be selectivity in what's reported...

All this stuff I've seen lately about what is and isn't progressive has gotten me wondering. Do you consider yr political views to be progressive? It's not a term that's used here, and while I get that in the US it tends to mean very liberal views when it comes to social issues and human rights in particular, it seems to get used at DU by folk who have what I consider to be quite, uh, 'centrist' political views overall...
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. I've never seen any post by that poser
that could be considered "progressive" or worthy of the title of "professor" or "historian" as its previous but widely discredited nick used. Maybe the "professor" can pont to one or two posts that are marginally progressive in some slight way at best, and since I don't read all of DU, there may be one or two, but none I've noticed so far.

But this is the one forum where the moderator encourages and supports the posting of right wing hate mongering and demonizing of "the other."

Just read the posts that were allowed by the most frequent and persistently hateful posters here to see what is being encouraged. The fact that those commnts, which would be regarded, rightly, as murderously fascist in any other context were allowed and endorsed, says a lot about the values and perspective of the moderator and what is being encouraged by its obviously and consistently partisan moderator. So we, the less powerful here, those who believe "people" status is not as narrow as the supremacists and their brokers here would allow, are jusrt limited to stating facts while screaming insults ("you're an anti-Semite and so on") by those who regard Palestinians as less than human is being encouraged by the moderator.

Again, just to state the obvious, this is he only forum on DU where the most consistent and persistent right-wingers are allowed to spew their venom. Moderator might want to give half a thought to this fact, or, more likely, as is its usual practice, just delete any post that it would rather not be seen and block any highly recommended threads it dislikes from appearing on the Greatest Page.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. I think yr being a bit hard on the I/P mods there...
While I was sitting here wondering to myself how many people would believe they had a handle on my politics and my occupation if I changed my username to 'Right-leaning Astrophysicist', I did think that you were being too hard on the mods. They definately don't encourage demonisation of any ethnic, religious or cultural group, and my experience has been that they do quickly delete posts that contain bigoted or hateful comments. Some of their decisions don't make sense to me, but in general I've found that they're pretty fair and I don't bother them and they don't bother me.....
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. EI trots out the pro-Hamas, pro-Fatah line....and that is not progressive
Edited on Fri Aug-21-09 06:40 AM by shira
In fact, Hamas and Fatah are about as REGRESSIVE as it gets.

EI's articles are not significantly different than the state-run newspapers within Gaza and the W.Bank and that's a fact.

==========

Going further, Likud's platform that is without question rightwing but also democratic in general, is at least 10x more "progressive" than the Fatah/Hamas party line (that makes any rightwing platform in any western nation look extremely liberal in comparison).
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