Israel Calls for Palestinian Crackdown on Militants

Some interesting bits, the dead guy, some different language.
This cracked me up:

Shalom said the fence, a concrete wall in some places and a wire
mesh with electronic sensors in others, was "very important" because
"it prevents the extremists from destroying the peace process."

Like Israel is just this helpless pawn in all these other guys
evil machinations, "stop me before I have to kill again ..."

or

"Warden Sir, it was so unfortunate, the cell door just popped open,
and he attacked me Sir, and I just had to beat him to death to
defend myself ...

But really it's just transparent propaganda, I'm sure the wall would
be good for motherhood and apple pie if they thought anybody would
buy that. They are almost as clumsy about it as the Soviets used
to be.

The wall supports the peace process, it is essential to the peace
process, that is a good one. :puke:

I suppose that the visit with Shrub is making the GOI nervous, the
one guy who can actually jerk them around.

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's foreign minister urged Palestinians to crack down on militants after a
soldier's body was found in northern Israel on Monday, although there was no claim of responsibility from any
militant group.

The death threatened a relative calm that has prevailed in the month since Palestinian militants declared a
cease-fire vital to a U.S.-backed peace plan that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon will discuss with President Bush
on Tuesday.

Bedouin trackers and police found the 20-year-old soldier's body in an olive grove as Sharon began a U.S.
visit with Bush, who has said Israel's construction of a West Bank security fence could pose a problem in
implementing the peace "road map."

Israeli troops fired rubber bullets to break up a protest by Israelis, Palestinians and foreigners who surged
toward the fence and tried to tear down a gate, witnesses said.

Reuters

and what do we got now... a request for Pollard's release and it's back to demands to crack down on the militants... with several more Palestinian children dead... a little rubber bullet action at one of the checkpoints...and...what concessions on the part of Sharon? I must have missed those!

Israelis, please vote Labor next election!

:shrug:

Yitzhak Rabin was a Labor Prime Minister. He was strongly in favor of peace and made huge proposals and concessions for peace.

collective punishment took place in the OT's... but I am not going to get into that...

While he was being celebrated as some great dove and lover of peace, he sent General Barak (who is also referred to as some dovey-peacenik) up to bomb the hell out of Lebanon. :shrug:

It's not quite what is needed IMHO either, but it is
better than Sharon, for the Palestinians, for Israel, for
almost everybody.

between labor and a party in the US. Or would that be a faulty analogy?
I realize Likud and Labor are two different parties, but so are the dems and repubs, and there is at times serious overlap in policy direction.

which does appear byzantine from here,
but I would think comparison with US politics
would not be very useful, and would most likely
reflect my own biases rather than anything you
could bet money on.

My own bias would be toward Shinui(sp?) which
wants to get religion out of government, a step
forward at least.

You are correct that WRT policies towards Palestinians
Labor is just a kinder-gentler version of the same
refusal to deal with legitimate Palestinian greivances,
and the same desire for more territory. But Sharon is
an ethnic cleanser of the old school and a rabid nationalist
and racist too, and he cares much less for the welfare of
both the Palestinian and the Israeli peoples, as one can
easily see from his policies and their effects.

Of course these are just my silly opinions, so YMMV.

The problem is taht Shinui is not decisive on the peace process, and would probably join any coalition that offered. A Labor/Shinui coalition with a few other left-wing parties would probably be the best for Israel.

Combined with some serious pressure from the USA that
might be enough to get a deal cut and save Israel.

what they represent is more or less an agenda of European secularism and modernism with every bit of the Chauvanism of the Likud but extended towards everything Oriental including Sephardic Jews.

They fear peace, and they are major league control freaks,
and the US can tell them what to do, up to a point. What I
normally take to be GOUSA propaganda organs are saying
bad things about the wall and the prisoners.

FWIW I have no idea what we have now, there are way too many
balls in the air, but one could think that Sharon was summoned to
Washington, based on the facts so far. Stay tuned.

he thinks the wall is a bad idea? Or perhaps he is going at this late hour to impress upon Sharon that is time he show some good faith and play some fair ball?

you are right there are way too many balls in the air. In combination with the family jewels it's anybodies ball game. I wouldn't take any serious bets at this time.

The "road map" is public, and while general, says some quite
specific things, and it seems clear at this point that it is
not the Palestinians that are reluctant to follow the road
map, they have much to gain from it. The question is whether
at some point Shrub will slap Sharon around or will allow the
continued shuck and jive we now see to continue. If Shrub does
not enforce it, it will fade into inconsequence fairly soon.

Of course the other parties to the road map might apply pressure
too, but Shrub has more direct leverage to apply, he can interfere
with the flow of money.

Of course, if anything is done, if any pressure is applied, it
will be under the table, and an elaborate dog-n-pony show will be
performed in which all parties are made out to be saintly and
sacrificing for peace.

The thing to watch is what happens to the settlements and the
wall and the prisoners and so on. All the rest is propaganda.
So far its been lip service on both sides other than the decline
in the level of violence.

I thought it had already started. Oh yes and the wall, and the settlements, and the prisoners, (of which now I was just told 500 are to be released -- have they been released -- I missed the show early regarding the sharon and bush meeting) what else right of return, and on and on...

as far the wall. Construction on this wall began all of a year ago NOW bush decides to make it an issue? I vasilate. Sometimes I say to myself, oh you have to follow closely day to day see what's going on. Yet. On the other hand. I say what is to follow it seems I can almost predict the days to come. Yet. I don't want to let myself get to far ahead with speculation. Although. Even as supposed new news emerges. It all feels like old news. You see what I mean?

but there will be a special one if Bush decides to
argue with Sharon. I see today Sharon told him to
bugger off, so we will see soon. This is sort of a
win-win situation, Bush looks like Sharon's bitch or
Sharon gets slapped down. :-)

A 20-year-old Israeli solder was kidnapped as he was hitching a ride home. Off-duty and therefore equal to civilian status. Body was found buried near an Arab village.

Israel set the standard by dropping a 1 ton bomb on an apartment building to get one guy (which they missed).

If you lay down with dogs you get fleas.

Not only did the 1 ton bomb hit the top militant of Hamas Shehada, killing him and his body guard and two family members,it is not the same as intentional civilian deaths. An off duty soldier is in the same category as a civilian, as verified by Human Rights Watch.

There is no cancillation of this principle. No standard was set. The collateral deaths of residents in a building near Shehada are the result of tactical error, and they were not the target.

The kidnap=murder of a soldier is targeting an off duty-soldier. Nothing can change that fact.

crackdown on settler and IOF violence. Yesterday I was on a conference call with Michael lerner and his editor, that talked to Abu Mazen. He truly has taken many steps to take control of their situation while Israel in essence has given them close to zilch in return. This endangers his position of authority that he is trying to build.

I trust Mazen's sincerity and hiw intentions of stopping the violence but Sharon has a track record that is not exactly supportive.

Quid pro quo.

Thanks for giving us this inside info, although even without it it seems obvious the New PA is genuinely wanting to move on to peace, has renounced terrorism against Israeli civilians, and is intent upon coming to some kind of resolution if only Sharon would stop screwing around and show some good faith. When one considered the handicap under which the New PA works: a new exodus from the OT's, the PA bombed to smithereens, unjust demolitions, regular killings of Palestinian children, etc., without knowledge of this conference call, it seemed clear Palestinians are sincerely read to negotiate peace.


Sharon seems intent however, in tieing up their hands even tighter than they are, in his attempt to either negate the peace process altogether, or control ever point. He can not even be trusted to keep his word on dismantling settlements without now throwing another potential contingency on the table: Jonathan Pollard.

too much working against peace here.

Palestinians call for crackdown on settler and IOF violence. No mention of Palestinian terrorism there, that's for sure. I support a crackdown on illegitimate violence, (aka terrorism)from both sides.