9 Sept. 2009: B'Tselem publishes complete fatality figures from Operation Cast Lead

<snip>

"Today (Wed. Sept 9th) Israeli human rights group B'Tselem published its findings on the number of Palestinians and Israelis killed in Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip. According to B’Tselem’s research, Israeli security forces killed 1,387 Palestinians during the course of the three-week operation. Of these, 773 did not take part in the hostilities, including 320 minors and 109 women over the age of 18. Of those killed, 330 took part in the hostilities, and 248 were Palestinian police officers, most of whom were killed in aerial bombings of police stations on the first day of the operation. For 36 people, B’Tselem could not determine whether they participated in the hostilities or not.

Palestinians killed 9 Israelis during the operation: 3 civilians and one member of the security forces by rockets fired into southern Israel, and 5 soldiers in the Gaza Strip. Another 4 soldiers were killed by friendly fire.

B'Tselem’s figures, the result of months of meticulous investigation and cross-checks with numerous sources, sharply contradict those published by the Israeli military. Israel stated that 1,166 Palestinians were killed in the operation and that 60% of them were members of Hamas and other armed groups. According to the military, a total of 295 Palestinians who were “not involved” in the fighting were killed. As the military refused to provide B'Tselem its list of fatalities, a comparison of names was not possible. However, the blatant discrepancy between the numbers is intolerable. For example, the military claims that altogether 89 minors under the age of 16 died in the operation. However, B'Tselem visited homes and gathered death certificates, photos, and testimonies relating to all 252 children under 16, and has the details of 111 women over 16 killed.

Behind the dry statistics lie shocking individual stories. Whole families were killed; parents saw their children shot before their very eyes; relatives watched their loved ones bleed to death; and entire neighborhoods were obliterated.

The extremely heavy civilian casualties and the massive damage to civilian property require serious introspection on the part of Israeli society. B'Tselem recognizes the complexity of combat in a densely populated area against armed groups that do not hesitate to use illegal means and find refuge within the civilian population. However, illegal and immoral actions by these organizations cannot legitimize such extensive harm to civilians by a state committed to the rule of law.

The extent of civilian fatalities does not, in itself, prove that Israeli violated the laws of war. However, the figures must be considered within the context of the numerous testimonies given by soldiers and Palestinians during and after the operation, which raise grave concerns that Israel breached fundamental principles of international humanitarian law and caused excessive harm to civilians. The magnitude of this harm requires Israel to conduct an independent and credible investigation, and not make do with military debriefings. Shortly after the operation, B'Tselem published guidelines for such an investigation and sent the Judge Advocate General’s Office some twenty illustrative cases, in which a total of about 90 Palestinian civilians were killed, demanding that they be investigated.

B’Tselem’s list of fatalities in Operation Cast Lead has been sent to the IDF Spokesperson’s Office for comment.

Organizations that participated in the statement: The Association for Civil Rights in Israel, Bimkom, B’Tselem, Gisha, Physicians for Human Rights, Adalah , Yesh Din, HaMoked,Center for the Defence of the Individual, Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, Rabbis for Human Rights."

http://www.btselem.org/English/Press_Releases/20090909.asp


Cast Lead fatalities figures.

Full Title: PCHR Publishes ‘Targeted Civilians’ a Comprehensive Report on the Israeli Military Offensive against the Gaza Strip

<snip>

"The Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR) today published ‘Targeted Civilians’ a comprehensive report on the latest Israeli military offensive against the Gaza Strip (27 December 2008 – 18 January 2009). The report is the result of extensive investigations, and documents numerous war crimes committed by Israeli occupation forces (IOF) over the course of the offensive.

The Arabic version of the report is available here. An English version of the report will be available next week.

PCHR has already published a number of reports on war crimes committed by IOF against Palestinian civilians and their property. On 14 July 2009, PCHR published "Impacts of the Israeli Military Offensive on Water and Sewage Services in the Gaza Strip. On 14 May 2009, PCHR published, "War Crimes against Children: Report on the 313 Children Killed during Gaza Offensive." During the period of the offensive, PCHR published two reports: "The Aggravation of Humanitarian Crisis in the Gaza strip as IOF Offensive Continues," published on 3 January 2009; and “Report on Attacks by IOF against Palestinian Medical Personnel during the Military Offensive against the Gaza Strip," published on 13 January 2009. PCHR is currently finalizing a report on the gender-specific impact and consequences of the offensive.

According to PCHR's documentation, 1,419 Palestinians were killed during the Israeli military offensive on the Gaza Strip. This number includes 1,167 non-combatants (82.2%) and 252 resistance activists (17.8%). The non-combatants include civilians and civil police officers who were not involved in hostilities, the protected persons of international humanitarian law. Investigations conducted by PCHR indicate that 918 civilians were killed (64.7% of the total number of victims). The civilian victims include 318 children (22.4 % of the total number of victims and 34.7% of the number of civilian victims) and 111 women (7.8% of the total number of victims and 12.1% of the number of civilian victims). According to the Ministry of Health in Gaza, at least 5,300 Palestinian were wounded during the offensive. This number includes at least 1,600 children (30%) and 830 women (15.6%); at least 2,430 children and women were wounded, 45.6% of the total wounded.

According to PCHR's documentation, IOF completely destroyed 2,114 houses (2864 housing units) affecting 3,314 families (19,592 individuals). They also partially destroyed 3,242 houses, (5,014 housing units) affecting 5,470 families (32,250 individuals). A further 16,000 houses at least sustained various degrees of damages as a result of bombardment and destruction, including the burning of dozens of houses in different areas. Approximately 51,453 individuals were made homeless.

The latest offensive was the most violent, brutal and bloodiest since the beginning of Israeli occupation in 1967. It resulted in large scale loss of life and destruction to property, and decimated the infrastructure of the Gaza Strip.

PCHR emphasizes that Israel’s conduct of hostilities in the Gaza Strip violated the principles of distinction and proportionality. As detailed in the report, IOF launched indiscriminate attacks against densely-populated areas. PCHR affirms that such acts constitute grave breaches of the Fourth Geneva Convention, and war crimes. Additionally, the widespread and systematic nature of Israeli-perpetrated violations of international law indicates that crimes against humanity may have been committed in the Gaza Strip."

more

The US has certainly killed far more civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq than Israel did in Gaza.

Maybe we should stop funding our own wars to the tune of hundreds of billions and dollars and counting.

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Just wondering.

anti-Semitic tripe on a public forum. Israel is the cause of all the world's troubles. Why don't you just come out and say it? Don't spare us will you?
:puke:

is supported by facts. His is supported by prejudice.

The problem is that those who indulge in such bigotry will always claim that facts are on their side, even though their idea of what's a fact is very different to that of people who aren't consumed by hatred for either Jews or Arabs. Sorry, but yr supposed *facts* have been shown time and time again to be supported by prejudice, and the most recent example is in the Iran man-rape thread...

How about joining the chorus of condemnation for the anti-semitic remarks?

It might help go a long ways towards shutting down that kind of ugliness if its not just the Israeli "partisans" calling people out on that stuff.

Hey, when you start speaking out even once against some of the bigotry against Arabs and Muslims on this forum, then you can demand that I speak out against bigotry. You know very well that I do speak out against antisemitism, so how about an apology for what you said? That was really out of line...

You had nothing to say about them. I was not suggesting that you have never spoken out against anti-semitism. Just that your only response to this particular expression of anti-semitism was of the "you do it too" variety.

I find it safer to operate that way. I'm not sure why you'd expect me to comment on a post that I didn't get to read....

btw, I wasn't responding to any antisemitism. I was responding to an Islamophobe jumping up and down about bigotry. I think it's hypocritical. Don't you?

:thumbsdown:

And let's not forget that even the lower estimates represent a real tragedy.

RIP all the victims of the war.

"The bombing of the Hamas Police Academy earned wall-to-wall condemnation because, according to international law, police are considered civilians. Here we will go into the results of the research conducted by Dahoah-Halevy. According to a name-based investigation of each of the "policemen", it turns out that 88.4% of them belong to the security - i.e., terrorism - mechanisms of Hamas. One of them, Muhammad el-Dasuqi, a member of the Resistance Committee, is suspected of being one of the perpetrators of the terrorist attack on the American convoy in 2003."

http://middle-east-analysis.blogspot.com/2009/07/how-many-civilians-were-killed-in-gaza.html

more (36 page very detailed analysis) about those 'civilians'......

http://www.ict.org.il/Portals/0/Articles/ICT-Hamas_Casualties_Operation_Cast_Lead.pdf

B'tselem is basing their research on Palestinian based NGO's influenced heavily by Hamas pressure.

Also, from the B'Tselem report:

'Based on the findings of the study, the ICRC determined there are two categories of persons
who lose the protection given them as civilians during an armed conflict between a state and
an organized armed group. B’Tselem included both categories under the classification “took
part in the hostilities.”

1. Persons who fulfill a “continuous combat function.” Such persons are legitimate
objects of attack, even if at the moment of attack they are not taking a direct part in
the hostilities. This category includes persons who are involved on an ongoing basis
in the preparation, execution, or command of combat acts or operations. An
individual recruited, trained and equipped by such a group to continuously and
directly participate in hostilities can be considered to assume a continuous combat
function even before he or she carries out a hostile act. On the other hand, persons
who continuously accompany or support an organized armed group but whose
function does not involve direct participation in hostilities maintain their status as
civilians and are not legitimate objects of attack. Thus, recruiters, financiers and
propagandists may contribute to the general war effort, but as long as they do not
directly participate in hostilities, they are not a legitimate object of attack.

2. Persons who do not fulfill a “continuous combat function” but take a direct part in
hostilities (for example, on their way to fir a rocket, during the firing of the rocket,
and on the way back).

The fact that persons who were killed during the operation belonged to an armed Palestinian
group does not constitute, in and of itself, proof that they took part in the hostilities, or that
they lost the protection granted them as civilians. Only persons who carry out a continuous
combat function are deemed to be taking part in hostilities at all times.

http://btselem.org/Download/20090909_Cast_Lead_Fatalities_Eng.pdf

The report is only six pages and doesn't take long to read. I think everyone who wants to comment about what it contains should at least take the few minutes required to read it...

for example, if an unarmed combatant fires off a rocket and runs away from the launcher but is killed within seconds or minutes, B'tselem, PCHR, etc.. will consider such a person a civilian under their narrow definition.

the same holds for any Hamasnik who shoots a gun at IDF troops, escapes through some tunnel, and re-emerges outside dressed as a civilian and mixed in with them. It's wrong to consider such a person a civilian who is as innocent as someone minding his/her business within their home spending quality time with the children.

if an unarmed combatant fires off a rocket and runs away from the launcher...

The act of firing a rocket makes them a combatant. Did you read what I copied from the report for you to read? It was covered in that, and the example you bring up is mentioned specifically. Here, I'll copy and paste it again...

Based on the findings of the study, the ICRC determined there are two categories of persons
who lose the protection given them as civilians during an armed conflict between a state and
an organized armed group. B’Tselem included both categories under the classification “took
part in the hostilities.”

<snip>

2. Persons who do not fulfill a “continuous combat function” but take a direct part in
hostilities (for example, on their way to fir a rocket, during the firing of the rocket,
and on the way back).

http://btselem.org/Download/20090909_Cast_Lead_Fatalities_Eng.pdf

The table of casualties at the beginning of the report confirms that there's indeed a separate category for police.

From the report:

'On 27 December 2008, the first day of the operation, the army bombed the main police
headquarters in Gaza City, killing 42 police cadets who were standing in formation. The same
day, Israel also bombed some 18 police stations in the Gaza Strip. In total, 248 police officers
were killed that day.

Israeli officials stated, in interviews with the media and in official announcements, that
attacks on the police were justified because police officers would in the future take part in
hostilities against Israel, and that every object belonging to Hamas was a legitimate target,
regardless of the actions of the persons attacked.

B’Tselem knows that many police officers in the Gaza Strip are also members of the military
wings of Palestinian armed groups, and might take part in hostilities against Israel. However,
without concrete information on integration of police officers in the combat forces of Hamas,
and taking into account the assumption that persons are deemed civilians unless proven
otherwise, B’Tselem is unable to determine that all the police officers were legitimate targets
and that the Palestinian police in Gaza, as an institution, is part of the combat forces of
Hamas, all of whose members carry out a continuous combat function.

For these reasons, police officers that Israel killed in an attack aimed at police or police
stations were listed in a separate category. Where B’Tselem knows a police officer was
affiliated with an armed group, the fact is noted. If a police officer was killed during combat,
or if he was killed when not taking part in hostilities and not in an attack aimed at police, it is
mentioned that he was also a police officer, if B’Tselem knows this was the case.'

http://btselem.org/Download/20090909_Cast_Lead_Fatalities_Eng.pdf

Can't get much clearer than that....

Based on their past history, I'm not very confident their list of civilian casualties is honest and accurate.

Here's one example:
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=33&x_article=493

Say what you will about CAMERA - the fact is Betselem has been known to fudge the statistics (and never in a way beneficial to the IDF but always helpful to Hamas, Fatah, etc).

If organizations make mistakes, that's fine - and expected - I just don't expect objective, impartial, and honest organizations to repeat the same type of one-sided mistakes (for one side over another) over and over again.

Some internet blogger? Why should I believe them?


I've already said what I think of CAMERA before.* Does it need repeating? Or should I start linking to highly partisan sites that are just a bit selective with their 'truth' and telling you that's 'fact'? B'Tselem has not been known to fudge statistics, which is accusing them of doing something deliberately, and just because you or CAMERA say so doesn't make that the case at all. Have you gone back and fact-checked what CAMERA claimed?

I'm aware that yr not willing to accept what B'Tselem reports, and it was clear in this exchange that you hadn't read their report and had to be shown parts of the report that contradicted what you were claiming.


*on edit - Now I have a lot more to say about CAMERA. Do you realise those nasty pricks are patting themselves on their backs for pressuring Facebook to have West Bank settlements listed as being part of Israel? Someone needs to tell CAMERA that the West Bank isn't part of Israel...

in fact, PCHR has claimed for months now that all the Hamas police killed during OCL count as civilians. Do you remember the rest of PCHR's claims and would you like to compare them to B'tselem? Do you realize the person running PCHR used to work for B'tselem?

Perhaps there's good reason why PCHR claimed what they did - and it wasn't deliberate - and if so, why haven't they retracted their disinformation?

Let's at least agree that PCHR fudged the stats before we move on to B'tselem, okay? And not attribute it to innocent "differences".

There's no question PCHR's final tally differs from B'tselems and is not based on the newest ICRC definitions of civilians. According to PCHR, those who were unarmed and fired a rocket, ran away, and were killed within seconds or minutes were dishonestly counted as civilians. That's not some innocent difference in opinion and if we cannot at least agree on this, what's the point moving on to B'tselem?

I can repeat them if you can't locate them. And at the risk of sounding like I'm repeating exactly what I said in the post you just replied to, B'Tselem are not known to fudge stats. It's a bit irritating to find myself in an exchange where what I say and any questions I ask get ignored. If this is going to continue, I'm not going to continue this discussion...

1. I don't care who cross-references PCHR or B'tselem's work. So long as they have convincing evidence that civilians are in fact combatants.

2. I realize CAMERA is a partisan organization, just as PCHR and B'tselem are. The question is whether those organizations are generally reliable, honest, and accurate - or whether they are typically dishonest, unreliable, and for the most part inaccurate. And no - I have not cross-checked everything CAMERA claims - I'm certain that like anyone else, they're human too and make mistakes. The question is whether those mistakes are innocent or not.

As for CAMERA claiming the settlements are part of Israel, could you cite that one please?

======

What other questions did you ask previously that you request I answer?

And is now a good time for you to try answering my last post?

Thanks for answering. I find it a bit surprising that you don't care if some internet blogger 'cross-references' and that you don't seem to care if they use a methodology, let alone get into what sort of methodology they use. Correct me if I've read what you said incorrectly, but it does appear that you have a conclusion you have already settled on and you'll accept whatever or whoever comes closest to yr conclusion, which appears to be that civilians are combatants...

No, PCHR and B'Tselem are not partisan organisations at all. Unlike CAMERA, which has never once advocated in support of the Palestinians or criticised Israel, PCHR and B'Tselem both report on human rights abuses by Israel and Palestinians...

I strongly suggest you do go and cross-check what was said in that CAMERA link, before accepting what they say as fact and insisting that I should accept it as fact....

I didn't say that CAMERA claimed the settlements were part of Israel. This is what I said: 'Do you realise those nasty pricks are patting themselves on their backs for pressuring Facebook to have West Bank settlements listed as being part of Israel? Someone needs to tell CAMERA that the West Bank isn't part of Israel...' What I said that CAMERA claimed was that they were responsible for pressuring Facebook to have West Bank settlements listed as being part of Israel....

Sorry? What last post didn't I answer?

All I'm saying about cross-referencing PCHR or B'tselem is that no matter who does it, if they are able to provide convincing evidence and facts that clearly dispute an NGO's findings, I'll accept that. For example, if they take a name off PCHR's list of 'civilians' and show that the person was clearly a combatant (with a picture or Hamas claiming them as one of their militants or warriors) that should work not only for me, but anyone who is honest, objective, and committed to accuracy. If the evidence is flimsy or lacking, that's not good enough for me.

Do you have a link to show me where/when CAMERA claimed what you accuse them of claiming?

As for cross-checking CAMERA in the article I linked earlier, the sad fact is I cannot find those particular claims from B'tselem anymore. It's as if those Palestinian casualties never occured according to B'tselem. For some reason, B'tselem has removed that information from their website.

So why am I expected to agree with you when you claim they did?

As for cross-referencing, I got it right about what you were saying. All yr interested in is 'proving' regardless of the means or the methodology used (if any) as few non-combatants were killed by the IDF as humanly possible. And you've already been told more than once that just belonging to an organisation like Hamas or even the IDF does not make someone a combatant. If you want to believe otherwise, at least apply the same definition to Israelis killed and if there's any photos of them in uniform, make sure you insist that they not be counted as non-combatants...

What on earth do you think I'm accusing CAMERA of claiming? I just want to get this clear as you've already misread what I said on the matter once...

What particular claims from B'Tselem are you saying don't exist anymore? No offense, but you didn't look very hard. So much for fact-checking...The stats are on their site, have always been on their site, and the way the casualties are listed is consistant all the way through, and each of those names listed by CAMERA are there...

http://zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2009/09/idf-refutes-betselem-claiims-of-gaza.html

The rights group Betselem has published claims about the allegedly large number of casualties in Operation Cast Lead.

Refutations of earlier similar claims may be found here and here Evidence that police served as terrorists is given here.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/ipc_e021.htm
http://www.jewishblogging.com/blog.php?bid=188770
http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/ipc_e021.htm

Of particular relevance is this order issued by the Hamas during operation Cast Lead:

"" In accordance with the policy of the factions of the jihad resistance in Gaza …we inform you that it is completely forbidden to issue information about the numbers, names or pictures or any detail about the shaheeds and wounded of the resistance . The order is in force until the end of the Zionist aggression which is clear to us and our nation, with the consent of Allah, may he be exalted. Any which violates these rules will be deleted and a warning will be sent to whoever is responsible for the posting. Let us all be soldiers of the resistance, and if we cannot assist it, at least let us not assist the enemy against it." "

A facsimile of the original Arabic is here.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/ipc_e021.htm

The following is the published response of the IDF Spokesperson to B'telem allegations:



OTR:


With regards to the categorization of the "police officers," information can be found that proves their terrorist activities on the website of the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center: www.terrorism-info.org.il.

An example of the double use of Hamas "police officers" in reports can be openly seen in a statements made on June 28, in which the Hamas Minister of the Interior, Hamad Fatahi, and also Haled Mashal himself, admitted that on the first day alone, 400 or 500 "Hamas warriors" had died. Furthermore, as Hamas has a policy of withholding information regarding sustained casualties during the operation, it is possible that the number of terror operatives who were killed is higher than the IDF's calculations.

It should also be stated the Manager of Emergency Services in the Palestinian Health and Emergency Services Ministry stated that there were approximately 1400 casualties during Operation Cast Lead.

A possible explanation for this discrepancy is that a number alone was given unsupported by identifying names, as well as the addition of natural death cases, which stands at approximately 400 per month in the Gaza Strip, possibly caused by the confusion at Gaza Strip hospitals during the operation.

As was explained to the organization, the IDF is unable to disclose the methods in which it gathers such information, as it is classified.