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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 08:23 AM
Original message
Scandal in the raw

Vaunting themselves as peers of Israel, Ramallah's leaders and their lackeys in Geneva are a disgrace to the Palestinian national struggle and are leading the Palestinian people to disaster, writes Azmi Bishara

The decision to behave in Geneva like the made-in- Oslo Palestinian Authority (PA) was but an extension of the Israeli occupation was the final nail in the coffin of international solidarity with the Palestinian cause in its customary sense. Those who took this decision knew this. International solidarity was confounded by the questions stirred by the Oslo Accords, a treaty struck with the occupation power before a solution was in sight. Was the liberation struggle still in progress as the occupation was still in place? Or did the Oslo process mean that matters now rested with the ability of "the two sides" to reach a settlement? Although the solidarity movement revived somewhat with the second Intifada, the Palestinian rift and the behaviour of the PA towards the war on Gaza threw it into confusion again. Even so, as fragmented and disarrayed as they were, all grassroots and semi-grassroots organisations and movements mustered what spirit they could to stand behind the Palestinians, as divided as they are, in the wake of the Israeli assault on Gaza. The Goldstone Report was the product of this drive. But now, after 2 October in Geneva, who is going to demonstrate solidarity with the Palestinians, how would they do so, and why should they?

The Palestinian party that declared, in Geneva, that it would withdraw its support from the Goldstone Report behaved not as though the Palestinians needed as much support as they could get, but as though this were part of the international order. Grassroots solidarity embarrasses such officials. It doesn't mesh with their self-image. They are up there with those in the White House, and who needs popular solidarity once you're a guest of the US president? Also, that solidarity movement can be more of an enemy than a friend at times. That movement supports the people in Gaza, for example, whereas the Palestinian officials in question stand on the other side of the blockade, working to obstruct any efforts that might give an advantage to their Palestinian political adversaries. These officials bade farewell to the liberation movement some time ago. "So long, liberation movement," they said well before liberation was even a glimmer on the horizon. That was painfully obvious to those who had eyes and ears. However, their behaviour in Geneva came as the definitive and impossible to miss adieu to the spirit and logic of liberation and solidarity movements.

The whole and essence of the Palestinian cause have been lost amidst the details of the political manoeuvres and the fine points of the settlement process that predominate the news. This is precisely the problem that responsible media committed to objectivity should overcome....

read on...
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/968/op5.htm
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 08:32 AM
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1. Bishara recommended that Hizbullah attack south of Haifa
In one of the conversations Bishara was asked an unusually direct question by his Hizbullah contact who wanted to know how Israel would respond if it were hit by long range missiles which would reach beyond the city of Haifa. Bishara mumbled and admonished his contact, hinting that the conversation may be monitored, but after a short while his aspirations got the best of him and he told the Hizbullah man that such an action would serve Hizbullah's goals. Several days later rockets began hitting targets south of Haifa.

Bishara also provided his contacts with detailed explanations of optimal targets for their rockets and which towns should be avoided. Hizbullah put a great deal of trust in Bishara's situation assessments and apparently operated according to a lot of the information he provided. In addition to the monetary compensation for this information Hizbullah apparently spared no efforts at making Bishara feel important in an attempt to boost his motivation to help them.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3395153,00.html
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The gov't of Israel actually attacked civilians in Gaza. You support them and read the POV
Edited on Tue Oct-20-09 09:16 AM by ProgressiveMuslim
of their spokespeople.

You used to be interested in what those who support Palestine think.

What's next in your transformation, posting on the PSU site?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I opposed the Gaza invasion
You keep claiming that opposite no matter how many times that has been repeated to you.

What is "the PSU site" ?
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You're saying that Bishara should be ignored because he advocated an attack on Israel.
I am pointing out that the gov't of Israel DID an attack, yet you still read pieces generated by those in that gov't and by those who support that gov't.

Your reason for blasting this piece is bogus.

Seems to me you want to shut down converation, rather than to understand PsOV that differ from yours.

That's a change from the way you used to conduct yourself here.

And Oberliner, I'm sure you well acquainted with the prosemite undercover site!
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I did not blast the piece - I made no comment about it whatsoever
I just provided a little contextual background on the author of the piece.

I welcome anyone who wants to share any thoughts about the article you've posted. I have no desire to shut down any conversation.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Like I said, Israel does much worse than "advocate" attacks on civilians. It carries them out.
Brutally. Mercilessly.

Just a little context.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Hamas brutally and mercilessly has carried out attacks on civilians
And they have openly bragged about such "operations" in the not-so-distant past.

That context often seems to elude you as well.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. To be frank, much of this sounds to me very much like a Likudnik talking about Peace Now.
There are some truths: yes, the Israelis are still persisting in settlement construction and that is morally wrong and a huge obstacle to peace; yes, both Israel *and* the Arab states tend to be anti-Palestinian in their policies.

But neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are going to go away so that the other group will have rule of the whole area, and both groups are going to have to make major compromises -or face eternal war.
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