Chief Rabbi: Palestinian Mosque Burning Harkens To Kristallnacht

Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi Yona Metzger on Monday visited the West Bank village of Yasuf, where days earlier a mosque was torched allegedly at the hand of settlers angry over the 10-month construction freeze.

"I came here to expression my revulsion at this wretched act of burning a place holy to the Muslim people," Metzger told the residents after he was escorted into the village under the protection of the Israel Defense Forces and Palestinian police. "This is how the Holocaust began, the tragedy of the Jewish people of Europe."

On their way out of the village, the rabbi and his escorts were pelted by rocks from protesters. The troops fired two shots in the air and a tear gas grenade.

On Sunday, a delegation of Israelis from the West Bank settlement bloc of Gush Etzion brought copies of the Koran to villagers to replace those destroyed in the attack.

The group, led by peace activist Rabbi Menachem Froman, met the village elders at a nearby checkpoint after being held up for several hours by the IDF.

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HAARETZ: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1134975.html

of the persecuted becoming the persecutors.

This was told to me by an Israeli woman.

Ashkenazi are basically European and Sephardi are more Mediterranean right?

Askenazim: Northern European/Eastern European(based in what was known as the "Pale of Settlement" in the Tsarist empire). Their common language was/is Yiddish.

Sephardim: Southern European(largely centered on the Jewish community in Spain, which was expelled from that country by the Inquisition). Their common language was/is Ladino, a language derived from Spanish and Hebrew.

Mizrahim: Jewish communities in North Africa and the Persian Gulf region, with many cultural similarities to Arab culture. Their common language was/is Maghrebi.

(Not sure where the Jewish exiles from Ethiopia fit into all that, but they must certainly have traditions of their own).

I bring what little I know from a novel by Michener on the birth of Israel...I was not aware of the Mizrahim which would probably identify more closely with the Sephardim. In the book, the Ashkenazi were the more "learned" Europeans ex-patriots while the Sephardim were more identified with more basic early Jewish law of biblical times (ie:the group that sang and danced). In the novel the Ashkenazi were the logic and The Sephardi were the passion. I'd love to hear more on this from the better informed.

both Ethiopians and South Africans practice a pre-Talmudic form of Judaism I believe

eta the Mizrahi may practice that form of Judaism also as I remember reading that Yemani Jews had multiple wives and the one wife clause did not come up until the Talmud

What IS the name of that South African tribe?

I've heard there was a community in India as well. Not sure what their traditions are.

it was a show on the History Chanel about the Ark of the Covenant

here are several different Jewish communities in India the oldest of which the Cochin have been in India for 2,500 years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Jews

reminds me of a joke I read in Dissent or somewhere like that: `you know what I dont like about the Jews? They`re so damn anti-semitic`

So because the Chief Ashkenazic rabbi of Israel makes a very specific reference to an aspect of how the Holocaust began, that means that everyone who makes clumsy, ugly broad brush claims that Israelis are Nazis isn't really an antisemite? You're smart enough to know better. Did Rabbi Metzger claim that the thugs who did this were Nazis? No. Did he say that the act was equivalent to the Holocaust? No. Did he make the ludicrous claim that Israel was practicing genocide? Of course not. He's not a fool. He made a pertinent point about how hatefulness begins and grows. Sure, if you misstate it, take it out of context, and add some hyperbole, you can claim it's antisemitic, but you wouldn't do that, would you?

That is one of the usual rhetorical techniques used by that particular poster (along with the use of humorously clever hyperbole).

It is part of what makes this board such an entertaining read at times.

...for pointing this out. And I am probably one as well for making this comment. But in all seriousness, it's so simplistic and stupid that it indeed becomes entertaining.

There should be a DU I/P summit where we can all chat about these issues in person over a few beers.

I think that would be a lot of fun.

And as that would unfortunately be a bit expensive, it would be nice at least to have one thread where each person says a little about their background and reasons for being interested in the issues. It is too easy for people to pigeonhole others on the forum as being 'on your side' or 'the other side' and not really listen to what they have to say.

I think even more could be gained, however, from a sit down face-to-face conversation.

One thing that I've observed is that, on the whole, we are a very kind and compassionate group and I think we'd all get along very well in real life.

I'm afraid I just don't like anyone here enough to travel much further than the local pub to have a drink with them. And in this season of having christmas drinkies with work colleagues, some of who I have to sit and politely nod at while inwardly cringing at their boring dribble, I couldn't think of many more cringeworthy things than sitting nursing a drink and nodding politely while some Americans tell me all about the I/P conflict, while I'm thinking to myself 'wonder why these guys want to talk about boring shit and not play the game of pub golf I just suggested? I may as well be out drinking with my work colleagues!' ;)

I think DU is great, But communicating in person would allow us to understand each other better.

There's only a small handful of people who I'd never want to encounter, and I'm pretty sure they'd know who they are. When it comes to folk like you, Obie, LeftishBrit, and Meshuga, I'd even shout you guys a drink before I got stuck into making fun of yr accents (LB can sit out of that one coz her accent sucks less than yrs)...

On a serious note, you guys are right that communicating in person has so many advantages to posting on an internet forum, where things like tone of voice and body language doesn't come across. While meeting in person is cost-prohibitive for us living in the bestest parts of the world, if anyone were to ever set up a voice chat that was for forum regulars, I'd so be there with bells on! In fact, why hasn't anyone organised something like that? Is it something anyone else would be interested in?

And most definately not for pointing that out. Maybe you should read posts more carefully in future...

And if you read me carefully you will see that I am not saying he is being accused of that. I am merely pointing out the exaggeration in the charges against people on the other side of the argument. And I would like to emphasize that the exaggeration comes from all sides, not just from a particular group here in this forum.

With this said, I think his invitation for a face-to-face beer would not be a bad idea for people here. And from your response to my post I can see that you would benefit from it as well. :-)

It makes me very cranky. I'm just not a summer person at all. :(

It's freezing where I am.

I like early Fall the best. Not too hot or cold and the colors are changing. So pretty.

My idea of a perfect life would be to travel while it's summer here and totally avoid summer at all. I'm really envious of you guys in the northern hemisphere right now :)

Did Rabbi Metzger claim that the thugs who did this were Nazis?

He compared the burning of the mosque to Kristallnacht. By logical extension, I think we can say that he was comparing the motivations of the people who burnt the mosque to the people who carried out the destruction on Kristallnacht.

Obviously, Kristallnacht was carried out on a much wider scale and involved significantly more people, but that confuses lack of ability with lack of intent. I do not doubt that the mosque arsonists would have liked to have seen hundreds of mosques burning rather than one. Nor do I doubt that there are people on the Palestinian side with equally dark intentions.

Generally, right wing posters on this board take issue not only with comparisons between Israel and Nazis, but with comparisons between Israel and virtually anything. This includes apartheid, as well as the Irish conflict, or colonial wars against indigenous peoples in the new world.

Those posters would submit that the Israel situation is entirely sui generis, and that its uniqueness prevents any comparison with any other conflict. Mostly this is because any comparison would tend to reflect unfavourably on Israel. The Palestinians, by and large, have done nothing that other indigenous peoples elsewhere have not done in an attempt to defend their interests. The Palestinians are criticised for rejecting partition in 1947, but in all honesty, has any other people consented to the loss of 60% of their ancestral homeland?

When I have made comparisons with the Nazis I have generally done so judiciously and particularly rather than gratuitously. I have noted on previous occasions that right wing posters generally do not do the same in comparing Arab/Iranian leaders to the Nazis. Ahmadinejad attracts such comparisons notwithstanding that, on a simple bodycount basis, he has killed far fewer Jews (zero) than Israel has killed Arabs in the same time span. I have made the point before that if there is to be a ban on gratuitous comparisons, it should cut both ways.

I've noticed that this uniqueness only applies for them if they think it can benefit Israel. When it comes to criticism, then it's a whole different ballgame and suddenly it turns into a comparison of Israel to other countries and an insistance that the criticism is singling Israel out and treating it as though it's unique....

Everyone is entitled to mistakes, but some should be more aware of those mistakes. Is it sand or quicksand for which upon you wish to step?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x296223

Any other usage is irresponsible and inflammatory.