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Let's launch 'Arab Apartheid Week'

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 09:43 AM
Original message
Let's launch 'Arab Apartheid Week'
<snip>

Consider the following findings: Of the 18 countries in the Middle East that Freedom House surveyed, only one is considered to be “free.” And just who might that be? Yep, you guessed it: Israel.

Not a single Arab country – not one! – did Freedom House consider “free.” Three Arab states – Morocco, Lebanon and Kuwait – were labeled “partly free,” while 13 other Arab states as well as Iran merited the dubious distinction of being branded as “not free.” In effect, then, this means that of the approximately 370 million human beings currently residing in the Middle East, only 2 percent enjoy true freedom – namely those who live in the Jewish state.

So much for “Israeli apartheid.”

NOT SURPRISINGLY, in a press release announcing the report’s publication, Freedom House concluded that “the Middle East remained the most repressive region in the world.” It is this message that Israel and its supporters need to begin highlighting. By casting a spotlight on the subjugation, oppression and tyranny that typify nearly the entire Arab world, we can open some eyes out there and educate the Western public as to who really shares their democratic values.

<snip>

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=170729
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Fail.
israel is only free if you have the right credentials. As for the other countries israel can once again, piss off, because they actively support the oppression of the people in these other countries.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Apartheid Arab regimes need to be exposed.
Edited on Sun Mar-13-11 11:34 AM by shira
"Israel is only free if you have the right credentials."

Israel had its first Arab President in 2007, before Obama was elected.

"As for the other countries israel can once again, piss off, because they actively support the oppression of the people in these other countries."

Israel doesn't actively support the oppression of people in other countries.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes they do, and israel is the biggest apartheid regime there is.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Israel had its first Arab President in 2007, before Obama. That's not apartheid.
Edited on Sun Mar-13-11 11:49 AM by shira
Here's a recent video interview of an Arab Israeli who says the claim of Israeli Apartheid is nothing but ignorance or a lie...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHPSdBztS98

So who should lead "Arab Apartheid Awareness"?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I would say that plenty of people are right now risking their lives in the Middle East...
for 'Arab Apartheid (and oppression and discrimination and lack of freedom, etc.) Awareness'.

Whether it will fail, or lead to something much better, or end up as 'Meet the new boss, same as the old boss' is still unclear.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Why aren't they calling Arab policies apartheid? Kinda hard to fight Arab apartheid...
Edited on Sun Mar-13-11 11:54 AM by shira
...when people are reluctant to describe it as such.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I don't care what they call it so long as they can achieve some progress
Certainly it's been 'Arab Oppression Awareness Week' since the end of 2010. And the article, despite its title, is mainly about oppressiveness and lack of freedom.

And another point: Michael Freund is not a person to trust in such matters. He is extreme religious-right; constantly criticizes Israeli leaders for not being hawkish enough; supports alliances with American Christian Zionists; would like Mike Huckabee as the next American president; and demands 'faith-based diplomacy' where Israel claims the 'God-given right' to 'Judea and Samaria' because of Biblical prophecy. Contrary to a lot of the stereotypes, Israel is far from a theocracy, and most Zionists, even right-wing ones, are not theocrats; but Freund does seem to be one, and as such his views are a danger to peace and freedom. It seems unlikely to me that he is really that interested in liberating Arabs from oppression or (in those states where it exists) apartheid; he seems to be using it just as a talking point for exhorting Israel to take a hardline attitude.

http://new.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=202525

http://israelinsider.net/forum/topics/michael-freund-annexation-time

One big problem in several states in the Middle East today is Muslim theocracy; adding Jewish theocracy to the mix would not improve matters at all.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Do you believe it's actually apartheid?
Edited on Sun Mar-13-11 12:16 PM by shira
As to Freund's politics, I could care less b/c on this he's 100% correct.

Why isn't the "Left" leading an Arab Apartheid Awareness campaign? Don't you think they should be?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. In some places yes, it some places not.
I would say that for instance Lebanese policies toward Palestinians, and Saudi policies toward women, amount to apartheid. In many Arab countries, it is simply oppression. And oppression is bad in itself. Why does it need to be called apartheid to be taken seriously?
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. It needs to be called apartheid if that's in fact the case. n/t
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Where it's in fact the case yes...
but sometimes (and that goes for many who comment on 'Israeli apartheid' too) it's just used to express negativity.

And even in this thread, no one seems able to come to agreement as to how 'apartheid' should be defined. Both you and Azurnoir seem to disagree with me, probably for different reasons, about how to use the term. Before calling for 'Arab' (or 'Israeli') Apartheid Weeks', we should at least define the term - and perhaps it would be better to just state more clearly and what what we mean; e.g. 'Israeli Anti-Discrimination Week'; 'Middle Eastern Democracy Week'; 'Arab Gender-Equality Week'; etc. (Though such things generally require more than a week anyway; remember Tom Lehrer on National Brotherhood Week: "It's only for a week so have no fear/ Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!")
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. So do you think the label is just used to express negativity vs. Israel? n/t
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I think there are genuine reasons for referring to 'apartheid' in the West Bank; though I'd usually
Edited on Sun Mar-13-11 05:05 PM by LeftishBrit
use other terms.

Referring to Israel as a whole as an 'apartheid state' is generally a sign of negativity.

More generally: I think that criticisms of any country (or person) are generally more effective when thought-out and applied to the specific circumstances. Over-using terms like 'apartheid' is rather lazy and likely to be ineffective. Though I admit that I do use the phrases 'economic apartheid' and 'gender apartheid' - perhaps more than I should.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. so apartheid means virtually any discrimination?
interesting redefinition indeed, not to mention a refocusing of subject, but I must wonder were you out saying the same when it was South Africa
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. See post 16
Before calling for 'Arab' or 'Israeli' Apartheid weeks, we do need to come to a definition of the term.

I would say that it refers to virtually any discrimination *that is embodied in law* or a direct result of things that are embodied in law.

When it was South Africa, 'apartheid' was the word that the government used for its legally embodied racism, so there was no debate about what word to use.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. ah ha so does this embodiment occur in the OPT?
but still it is quite 'creative' I would say to 'universalize' the term as to render it almost banal
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I must ask about you post
"Israel had its first Arab President in 2007, before Obama. That's not apartheid.
Posted by shira"


exactly which President of Israel was that?

List of Presidents of Israel

This page was last modified on 25 February 2011 at 20:07.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_Israel

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Majalli Wahabi. n/t
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. He was not elected president like Obama, however...
he was acting head of state for a day or two, when Katzav had been forced to resign and the acting president, Dalia Itzhik, was briefly out of the country,
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. He was head of state before Obama. The UK has never once had a Black, Arab, or minority HoS. n/t
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. also he was Druze but more on him
Majalli Wahabi (Hebrew: מגלי והבה‎, Arabic: مجلي وهبه‎, also spelt Majalli Wahbee, born 12 February 1954) is an Israeli Druze politician who currently serves as a member of the Knesset for Kadima. He briefly assumed the position of President due to President Moshe Katzav's leave of absence and Acting President Dalia Itzik's trip abroad in February 2007, making him the first non-Jew to act as Israel's head of state.

This page was last modified on 31 January 2011 at 13:24.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majalli_Wahabi
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. South Africa had high profile black leaders but the truth is they were
a apartheid government. Same as israel. Saying otherwise just makes you look like a jackass with with a set of blinders to the reality of the situation.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. S.Africa had a black president during the apartheid years? I can see this is going nowhere. n/t
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. Well, yes - that's why there are finally all these protests.
'Casting a spotlight on the subjugation, oppression and tyranny' in the Arab world - well, a lot of protesters have been doing that recently; and several nasty dictators have been sadly demonstrating their oppressiveness.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Wishful thinking, LB. For some reason, protestors won't call it "Apartheid". Why is that?
Edited on Sun Mar-13-11 12:23 PM by shira
Throughout Arab countries there is very real ugly and vile gender apartheid, written into legislation.

Which protesters are opposing that?

Where are the protestors WRT Lebanese apartheid policy vs. Palestinians?

:shrug:
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. Freedom House is a right-wing CIA front.
I'm not surprised the right-wing Jerusalem Post gives them credibility.
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