Anger against Israel grows in Palestinian town walled in ...

(shortened the long headline)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/07/31/international1545EDT0659.DTL

Khaled Amer's family tilled their vegetable fields and guava groves for three generations -- until Israel cut their land in half with a security barrier it's building in the West Bank.

Amer's story is no rarity in Qalqiliya: the town is walled off on three sides by a combination of concrete walls, fences, razor-wire and trenches that residents say is strangling their livelihood and feeding anger at Israel.

"If they want a security wall, why don't they build it on their land?" asks Amer, gazing through the fence at fields he hasn't been able to tend for five months. "This is the land that I live off, this is the land that feeds me, and now they've come and taken it away."

Israel says the northern section of the barrier -- which was declared completed on Thursday -- has 41 gates for farmers to reach their lands. But Palestinians say they are often denied passage. Amer says he hasn't been to his guava groves in five months.

The barrier also takes an emotional toll. Residents point to the watchtowers, with silhouettes of Israeli soldiers outlined against the sky, and say their town has become like a prison.

toll collector.

Now how on earth does any of this make any sense? Obviously the Palestinians ARE NOT going to go for this. All this will do is stir up the radical groups, and rightfully so. Going into this "roadmap" to peace is was obvious that Israel would have to leave the territories that are to be given over to the Palestinians. Self-government was a term used more than once. This makes it obvious that Sharon was never serious about the peace process from the get-go.

I understand the Israeli need to be able to defend itself from terrorist attacks. But to be so utterly obstructionist is self-defeating. What it looks like to me is that Sharon will say, "hey, we tried" and the peace process will fail. Maybe that's the plan. Bush and Sharon want to make it look like they are trying to negotiate a Mideast peace plan, but are throwing all kinds of obstacles in the way so that it will look like the Palestinians' fault. And it isn't helping anyone that the Bugmeister is loose running his mouth starting trouble.

I don't want to throw a wet blanket on everyone but there is a reason that these people are referred to as Palestinians. It is because they come from the region known throughout history as PALESTINE. This is their homeland. Why is it so unreasonable that they too might want a place of their own?

I don't want to throw a wet blanket on everyone but there is a reason that these people are referred to as Palestinians.

The word actually comes by way of Hebrew PL'SH'TH, or "Philistine" in King James speak. The Philistines weren't Arabic or Semitic (and didn't speak Arabic/Aramaic/Hebrew), they were pushed out of Egypt after a failed conquest.

It is because they come from the region known throughout history as PALESTINE.

After the Jews rebelled against Rome (the second time), the Romans changed their administration from "Provincia Judea" to "Provincia Syria Palaestina". The Arabic word "Falastin" is simply a transliteration of the British-by-way-of-Roman-by-way-of-Hebrew name for a culture long disappeared. Calling themselves Canaanites or Phoenicians would be equally (in)accurate.

they were there for a few thousand years and no doubt a great, great many of them are converted decendents of the Jewish kingdoms anyway.

is indeed Roman in origin. I'm not sure about the reason the Romans called it such. Perhaps you are correct in that it came from the Hebrew word for Phillistines.

The Palestinians are Arabs in ethnicity, and therefore semitic people.

The Latin is "Palaestina", the Hebrew "plesheth" by way of declining "palash".

The Palestinians are Arabs in ethnicity, and therefore semitic people.

Semitic simply means "descendent of S(h)em", which is a silly genealogical classification since it requires the Noah story to be literal truth.

but the English word Palestine was taken from the Latin.

The word for Palestine in modern Hebrew is not "pleseth." I am not sure if you are speaking of modern or ancient Hebrew here.

but rather for a section of it.

In biblical Hebrew, the land itself was refered to as "Kna-an" which has been translated to English as Canaan.

it's a modern semantic. All people deserve a place to call home, it just seems strange to use a colonial name for a liberation movement.

Yes it has been obvious Sharon was never serious about the peace process from the get - go. Speculation is generally discouraged in our oh so pragamatic world, ya know! People always just like to wait for the more conclusive evidence. Which by the time that arrives, it can be argued, it is sometimes too late.

For those that enjoy second guessing the news and reading between the lines, this is already very old news. Sharon is working on the nerves of the Palestinian Resistance most commonly all called terrorists. He knows his enemy so well, this is another deceptive instigation in the works. When it blows he fancies he will once again be within his right to claim Israel only defends itself. At least from his perspective.

Afterall not much movement has occurred since cease fire but the near completion of the Separation Wall and further expansion in and construction of various settlements. And the three month period has almost ended with a show of bad faith rather than good. Very old news. And all of this failure will have to do with anti-Semitism, those who point this out are not just calling a spade a spade, but instead are calling for the destruction of Israel.

From the militarism to the perfection of propaganda, interesting strategies, eh? All in the name of Jewish Nationalism.

Which radical groups? The bus bombers or the street dancers?

What a welcome headline that would be!

and "Work will set you free".

The signs of a failed democracy and/or failed colonial experiment are quite evident. Even the language and concepts espoused by supporters is becoming more deranged and fatalistic.

Racist Aparthied Wall
Racist Aparthied Laws
Ethnic Cleansing

Yup, this experiment is FUBAR. I don't want to pay for any of the above lunacy. The question is, how long do we continue to send good money after bad?

What Middle Eastern country you are taken with? Israel is the a beacon to her neighbors, telling them democracy means a superior country.

None of them. But my criticism will be sharpest on the one with its arm in my pocket up to the elbow.

also recieves US aid. Second most, after Israel.

Building an aparthied wall?

Annexing foreign soil?

Enacting aparthied laws?

Dropping 1-ton bombs on apartment complexes?

Bulldozing Palestinian homes?

Killing Palestinian children at an alarming rate?

Planning ethnic cleansing?

(shall I continue?)

We pay Egypt the aid package, in part, as a bribe to disengage with the Israelis. Guess what? That bribe worked, the Egyptians are at least *honest* in that respect; unlike the Israelis that take the money, come back grovelling for more money, then flip us the bird after the check has been cashed.

Imprisoning pro-Democracy activists?

Launching a racist propaganda machine about muslims, sanctioned and paid for by the government?

Secure from terrorist attack?

Yes.

Room for debate.

Never will be on the current path.

Now if you don't mind, I prefer to get back to the primary topic, which is the reaction to Israel imprisoning an entire population based on race and annexation of foreign soil.

that according to your justification of concentrating on Israel, you should concentrate on Egypt as well.

You can make a convincing case that the "aid" Egypt receives substantially flows back to the United States and in fact is only given to remove Egypt from the I/P conflict, therefore essentially the money is a cheque to Israel.

to Egypt is at least as bad as military aid to Israel. Egypt's human rights record is pathetic.

n/t

you should criticize both, not one and not the other.

I've criticised Egypt plenty, you just haven't seen it. Further, I've signed petitions and lobbied for anti-war activists imprisioned by Egypt earlier this year, and in fact demonstrated in the freaking rain on their behalf.

My principles generalise across all nations. That should be trivally obvious.

but rather to anyone, including myself, who criticizes Israel, reminding them that there are other human rights abuse cases aside from that of members of the IDF.

you know the difference between abusing your own citizens and visting abuse on foreigners outside of your borders.

We pay the Egyptians to stop fighting with the Jews and they stopped.

We pay Israel to stop fighting with the Arabs and they take the money and tell us to get fucked.

That is the primary point I get out of dragging Egypt into this discussion.

gives military aid to Israel so that they will have a militarily strong ally in the Middle East-very important to American interestis, whether PNAC-based or truly progressive.

that reason died with the USSR.

Israel is by far the strongest military power in the Middle East. Since the PNACers want to rebuild the Middle East, like the world, in their image, such an ally will be essential to them.

An Israeli state with seperation of church and state alongside a Palestinian state with the same seperation, perhaps joined by some sort of treaty, would be a boon to American interests in the region.

Israel is by far the strongest military power in the Middle East. Since the PNACers want to rebuild the Middle East, like the world, in their image, such an ally will be essential to them.

An excellent reason to cut all military aid and start tracking the money that's left.

An Israeli state with seperation of church and state alongside a Palestinian state with the same seperation, perhaps joined by some sort of treaty, would be a boon to American interests in the region.

A fantasy, I am afraid, at this point. Israel is shedding democracy rapidly and becoming a Religious-Ethnic Aparthied State. Israel is annexing foreign soil and you and other diehard supporters only want to *appease* this action. Sorry, been there, done that, don't want nothing to do with it anymore.

A fantasy, I am afraid, at this point. Israel is shedding democracy rapidly and becoming a Religious-Ethnic Aparthied State. Israel is annexing foreign soil and you and other diehard supporters only want to *appease* this action. Sorry, been there, done that, don't want nothing to do with it anymore.

When have I said that I want to appease this action? I am against the vast majority of the settlements. I am against clearing land for the settlements. I am against the seperation wall.

I amm also against the Palestinian terrorists who enter Israel and kill dozens of people.

I strongly condemn all of those actions.

Would you welcome the headline as I wrote it?

and the reaction to the wall you suggest is highly unrealistic. The only concept I can agree with is the need for Palestinians to police themselves.

Would you like to see this reaction? I think you know the answer.

but, alongside it would perhaps be "Israeli popular anger at IOF and settlers grows as human-bomb assaults continue".

They protect her from the homicide bombers! Oh, my.

being an Irish Catholic, I have great empathy for the Palestinians.

My people, too, had to resort to violence to oust imperialists.