Israeli MP proposes 'ethnic cleansing'

Israeli MP proposes 'ethnic cleansing'
By Khalid Amayreh in the West Bank
Sunday 04 January 2004

A member of the Israeli parliament has proposed “massive ethnic cleansing” of non-Jews in Palestine-Israel as a “final solution” of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

Uzi Cohen, a member of Ariel Sharon’s right-wing Likud party and a deputy in the Knesset, told Israeli public radio on Sunday there was widespread support in Israel for “the idea of ethnic cleansing”.

“Many people support the idea but few are willing to speak about it publicly.”

Cohen, an influential figure in Likud, proposed that Israel, the United States, the European Union as well as oil-rich Arab states make concerted efforts to create a Palestinian state in northern Jordan.

He suggested the Hashimi royal family in Amman “might view favorably this idea”.

Cohen, who is also deputy mayor of the town of Raanana, said Palestinians should be given 20 years to “leave voluntarily”.

“In case they don’t leave, plans would have to be drawn up to expel them by force.”

--snip--

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9DCD41A2-E372-4732-8F1A-411EC28F603D.htm

Like the Monkees of old, "may be comin' to your town.."

... beginning with making life so miserable for Palestinians that they would _en masse_ seek refuge in Jordan (Jordan has always been a likely prospect since almost 60% of its population is now Palestinian), but it hasn't worked. The Palestinians have clung to their lands, and their homeland, more tenaciously than the Likud ever expected.

The Likud now hopes that force and support from the US will enable Israel will drive out the Arabs from their midst. The aims of the Israeli government have long been to remove the Palestinians, particularly from the Golan Heights, where there is access to water from the north.

What so many fail to understand about the current conflict over the occupied territories is that resources, such as water, are more important than ethnic concerns, or concerns about "terrorism." Israel needs the land, because of water.

In Israel, the issue of the occupied territories centers on resources, in the same way that the US declares its interests in the Middle East regarding oil.

The Israelis have attempted to take those resources in the same way that the US has tried to control oil resources from the Middle East.

This latest missive from Cohen is little more than another attempt on the part of the Israeli government to justify the unjustifiable.

I couldn't agree more, punpirate. Scratch the surface of most conflicts, and you'll find something, somewhere about resources. It's simply easier to sell a conflict as some mysterious, destined clash of civilizations that's beyond our control. Though I'd also put the expediency of the conflict to various international actors high on the list, too.

that's why I put it up there, so it wouldn't just be ignored, like 99% of the things down here are.

:eyes:

UZI making the world a better place! Pass it on dude....

:)

Well, there goes those assurances I've read from some quarters that only the loony fringes of Israeli politics support ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians...

I doubt very much that there'd be widespread support in Israel for it, though, not unless I've misjudged the Israeli people as a whole. That line about there being widespread support but people being unwilling to speak about it publicly seems to be the rallying cry of right-wing twits everywhere with nasty, racist barrows to push...

Violet...

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

You didn't post an article in this thread, Gimel. I'm reading the article that Aidoneus posted which started this thread, where it says he's a deputy in the Knessnet. You have a problem with people reading the articles that start threads?

Violet...

Of course I know I didn't post an article in this thread.
Here is the link, I know you've already seen it on the thread I started. However, as you have refused to read JPost articles in the past (which I think that anyone really interested in the I/P issue would not hesitate to do).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=44403&mesg_id=44403

Being told I'm 'off the wall' because I haven't read an article you've posted in another thread seems a bit rough. If I wanted to read an article you posted, I'd trot off to the thread you posted it in and read it there....

As I and others here have said in the past we're not going to waste time with the ridiculous registration process to read a conservative rag, and all of us without a doubt are really interested in the I/P issue, I'd suggest that basing yr own opinions on who is and isn't interested in the I/P issue on whether they read articles from a right-wing piece of junk is just a tad 'off the wall'....

Violet...

you claimed that Cohen had a position of rank in the Knesset. Then I recommended that you read my post as it would clarify the matter.

(edited for correct spelling)

Second edit:

Your post :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=44374&mesg_id=44408&page=

is all about Uzi Cohen being a "deputy" in the "Knessnet" which is going off on the wrong tangent.

Have I got the wrong guy here, perhaps? This one looks pretty senior to me...

http://www.knesset.gov.il/mk/eng/mk_eng.asp?ID=77

Violet...

quick edit: meant member, not Minister...

This article reports on statements that Uzi Cohen made in a radio interview. Uzi Landau is a different person. It can't be claimed that one is the other, as you are doing.

That's why there was a question mark at the end of my question, Gimel. If they're different people, could you maybe point me towards some information on the right guy?


Violet...

I've already posted the information on this thread with a link leading to the JPost article:

Ra'anana Deputy Mayor Uzi Cohen's ideas include transferring Palestinians to a new state that would be carved between Jordan and Syria, giving the central committee the right to choose the Likud's leader, and increasing the number of MKs to 160.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=44403&mesg_id=44403

As Limor Livnat is the Education Minister in the Likud government, and has written this article, I think she knows what she is talking about. Uzi Cohen is not in the Knesset even. His name does not appear on this list, you most certainly must agree:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Politics/knesset99a.html

So it certainly proves that the article posted here from al jazeera claiming that Uzi Cohen is an Israeli MP is simply false information and propaganda.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=44403&mesg_id=44403

to ask if the person is a deputy in the Knesset?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

the person named, Uzi Cohen is not a member of the Israel Knesset. Uzi Landau is a member of Knesset, and a well-known political figure in the Likud. Landau is not Cohen.

what you think, Gimel. Do you agree with Mr Cohen?

that I do not.

I can't imagine any thinking person agreeing with him.

Thanks. :-)

what do you propose to do with the Palestinians?

"Doing something with the Palestinians" is not Israel's option. To establish security is. There is a very pragmatic plan that has been put forth by PM Sharon. The Security Fence will provide an edge on keeping terrorists out of Israeli cities. If there is no action on the Road Map within 6 months, Sharon proposes to take unilateral steps and begin dismantling settlements to secure a complete separation from the Palestinian population.

While Sharon's plan was not well received by the Likud members at the Likud Convention, Shinui MK Lapid has endorsed it fully.

good old Sharon, doin' the best he can, right? (to make the world a better place) :eyes:

The idea may have come from someone else, I do not know, but Sharon has chosen to implement it which I think was an excellent move.

Already there is a 50% drop in the number of terror attacks in 2003 as compared to 2002.

The number of terror attacks in 2003 dropped by 50 percent and the number of people killed in attacks dropped by 30 percent compared with the previous year, according to statistics published Thursday by the defense establishment.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/380958.html

in Palestinian civilans killed by the IDF. So much for peace...

Let's wait a bit. Prevention hasn't been totally bloodless for sure. I hope that we will soon see a drop in Palestinian casualties. There is reported to be a significant drop in warnings of attacks. Hope that that trend continues.

The article from Al Jazeera is announcing that an Israeli MK made these statements which is not true. Uzi Cohen is a member of the Likud central committee but is not a member of the Knesset. He is a Deputy Mayor of Ra'anana.

I checked this out on the Arutz 7 site:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=39598

It seems to be something that many media sources have done at times in the past, and the way I see it, either an MK said it and it's been attributed to the wrong person, or this guy said it and the reporter has confused his membership of the Likud central committee with membership of the Knesset. Whichever it is, the guy is a loonytune racist and it wouldn't come as a shock to see someone like this in the Knesset seeing as how racist loonies like Benny Elon are there :)

Violet...

this anti-Arab one gets attacked as much as those who are considered anti-Israel.

What he said is disturbing, especially coming from such a powerful man. However, he is not an MK. Benny Elon is not merely an MK, he is a member of Sharon's cabinet, which is also disturbing.

Nevertheless, I would like to know about what Mr. Taibi is speaking in the article. Are they going to discuss Cohen's remarks at some level in the Knesset? What is the procedure for this? Mr. Cohen's remarks are so out-of-line that hardly seems necessary to seriously discuss them. One would think that the politicians would be trying to score points by denouncing them and leave the matter at that.

In 1948, the newly-born Jewish state expelled the bulk of the Palestinian population from what is now Israel and destroyed more than 460 Arab towns and villages.

Israel has consistently refused to allow the repatriation of the refugees, arguing that allowing some or all of them back to their homes, many of which no longer exist, would undermine the “Jewish identity” of Israel.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9DCD41A2-E372-4732-8F1A-411EC28F603D.htm

Of course, the official Israeli version of the story is that the Palestinians fled on their own in fear based on unfounded rumors. Is that really a credible story?

The first Palestinian exodus

This territorial expansion by the use of force resulted in a large-scale exodus of refugees from the areas of hostilities. Palestinians allege that this was part of a deliberate policy to displace Palestinian Arabs to make room for immigrants, and quote Zionist sources, including Herzl:

"We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country.

"Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly". 69/

Herzl's plans in respect of the size of the Jewish State are cited as another item of evidence of this policy. Describing a 1939 meeting with Churchill, Weizmann writes:

"... (I) thanked him for his unceasing interest in Zionist affairs. I said: 'You have stood at the cradle of the enterprise. I hope you will see it through'. Then I added that after the war we would want to build up a State of three or four million Jews in Palestine. His answer was: 'Yes, I quite agree with that'." 70/

Palestinians also charge that the terrorizing of the civilian population through military or psychological means was an integral part of this policy of expelling Palestinians, and again cite Zionist writings:

"... Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country ... We shall not achieve our goal of being an independent people with the Arabs in this small country. The only solution is a Palestine, at least western Palestine (west of the Jordan river) without Arabs ... And there is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries, to transfer all of them; not one village, not one tribe, should be left ... Only after this transfer will the country be able to absorb the millions of our own brethren. There is no other way out;..." 71/

One of the most notorious cases of the terrorizing of civilian population occurred, according to Palestinian and other sources, in April 1948 at Deir Yassin, a village near Jerusalem, situated in territory assigned to the Jewish State by the partition resolution. A former Israeli military governor of Jerusalem writes:

"We suffered a reverse of a different nature on April 9 when combined Etzel and Stern Gang units mounted a deliberate and unprovoked attack on the Arab village of Deir Yassin on the western edge of Jerusalem. There was no reason for the attack. It was a quiet village, which had denied entry to the volunteer Arab units from across the frontier and which had not been involved in any attacks on Jewish areas. The dissident groups chose it for strictly political reasons. It was a deliberate act of terrorism ...

"... Women and children had not been given time enough to evacuate the village, although warned to do so by loudspeaker, and there were many of them among the 254 persons reported by the Arab Higher Committee as killed.

"The event was a disaster in every way. The dissidents held the village for two days and then abandoned it. They earned the contempt of most Jews in Jerusalem, and an unequivocal public repudiation by the Jewish Agency. But they gave the Arabs a strong charge against us, and the words 'Deir Yassin' were used over and over again both to justify their own atrocities and to persuade Arab villagers to join the mass flight which was now taking place all over Palestine." 72/

Other Zionist leaders deny the charges, making this a controversial case. Begin writes:

"The enemy propaganda was designed to besmirch our name. In the result it helped us. Panic overwhelmed the Arabs of Eretz Yisrael ... the Arabs began to flee in terror, even before they clashed with Jewish forces. Not what happened in Deir Yassin, but what was invented about Deir Yassin, helped to carve the way to our decisive victories on the battlefield. The legend of Deir Yassin helped us in particular in the conquest of Haifa ... All the Jewish forces proceeded to advance through Haifa like a knife through butter. The Arabs began fleeing in panic, shouting: 'Deir Yassin!'" 73/

Whatever the versions of this controversial case, the psychological effect of such incidents was a mass exodus of the civilian population.

The psychological tactics used are described by Yigal Allon:

"I gathered all the Jewish mukhtars, who have contact with Arabs in different villages, and asked them to whisper in the ears of some Arabs, that a great Jewish reinforcement has arrived in Galilee and that it is going to burn all of the villages of the Huleh. They should suggest to these Arabs, as their friends, to escape while there is still time. And the rumour spread in all the areas of the Huleh that it is time to flee. The flight numbered myriads. The tactic reached its goal completely. The building of the police station at Halsa fell into our hands without a shot. The wide areas were cleaned, the danger was taken away from the transportation routes and we could organize ourselves for the invaders along the borders, without worrying about the rear". 74/

The terror that spread among the Palestinian population was a crucial factor affecting developments in Palestine. It led to a mass exodus of refugees into neighbouring countries. The number of Palestinian refugees resulting from these hostilities were estimated to number 726,000 75/ by the end of 1949 - half the indigenous population of Palestine. Charges that their flight had been incited by Arab leaders is refuted by a United Nations report noting that the refugees either fled from the war or were expelled:

"As a result of the conflict in Palestine, almost the whole of the Arab population fled or was expelled from the area under Jewish occupation".

"... an alarming number of persons have been displaced from their homes. Arabs form the vast majority of the refugees in Palestine and the neighbouring countries. The future of these Arab refugees is one of the questions under dispute, the solution of which presents very great difficulties ...

"The majority of these refugees have come from territory which, under the Assembly resolution of 29 November, was to be included in the Jewish State. The exodus of Palestinian Arabs resulted from panic created by fighting in their communities, by rumours concerning real or alleged acts of terrorism, or expulsion ..." 76/
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

it is just rare these days to hear an Israeli official openly suggest ethnic cleansing as an option. The trick these days is to pretend you're fighting terrorists all the time and that all Arabs want to throw you in the sea, then use that as cover to continue with the gradual ethnic cleansing that is taking place.

it's "refreshing" that he is not beating around the bush. He has said it openly. What's more interesting is what percentage of the Israelis agree with him.

Source?

Heck, the majority of Israelis seemed to be against the marriage law in Israel that was passed. I doubt that many of them support this.

Just found this.

"Will our students, as they do in Israel, write to our troops imploring them to kill as many Arabs as possible?*"

"*Letters from schools in central Israel were sent, mostly from students in the seventh to tenth grades, from two public, religious schools, Yeshiva Aderet in Bat Yam and Maalot Neria in Bnei Brak."

http://yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=1723

The author is pretty much writing an opinion piece, which claims to know for certain that Israelis as a culture (not a government, but a culture) think that they are superior to the Arabs. The author then talks about students writing to soldiers, asking them to kill as many Arabs as possible. What isn't being mentioned is that people believe that Americans think that they are superior "as a culture" for the exact same reason. The US also have a brutal foreign policy (in which the author pretends that it's not as bad as Israel, when it's probably worse), and people outside of the US also think that we think that we're superior to others as a result. Also, many in America want our soldiers to kill as many Arabs as possible.

Wanting as many Arabs to be killed as possible might come from hate, or it might come from fear about what they'll do to their country if they're not killed. Many Israeli kids might believe that if they're not killed, then Israel will be destroyed (which might supposedly get all of the Jews killed). Likewise, many Palestinians might believe that they need to kill as many Israelis as possible so Israel won't kill all of them.

I have to be cautious of any author that actually paints the US in a better light than Israel. We're more powerful, and we do far more damage.

because there must be ignorant parents on both sides who teach their children hateful things.

I guess Israel "pretends" that all those bombs go off and kill Israeli civilians too.

And the perpetrators of that activity are the Arabs, not the Israelis.

How many Jews rise today in Damascus, Tehran or even in the PA controlled areas of the West Bank and Gaza?

the fact that so many Palestinians are driven from their homes (demolished or even killed) by the IDF and Israel's policy...

The Israelis are building the wall, which will kill many Palestinians due to a lack of agriculture, will drive many of them from their homes, and they've been doing stuff like this to a far lesser extent for decades now. They've also destroyed water areas to drive out Palestinians. They've killed far more Palestinians than they have Israelis. How are the Palestinians the ethnic cleansers?

I don't support Palestinian suicide bombings, but I am not going to call it ethnic cleansing when the issue is their desperation to fight back against the REAL ethnic cleansing of their people.

This article makes clear to me that the accusations of "ethnic cleansing" are more a matter of a political pendulum than of fact. The accusations are screamed loud enough to beg for some recognition, and that in itself overlooks the actual investigation of fact. It will be interesting as to how this revisionism is looked at by future historians.

doesn't it?

..

Why on earth are you all believing what this source says? I'm not saying that what they say isn't true, but I don't see how it's any less biased than the Jerusalem Post.

I strongly wish that you all would be careful about what you accept information from. At least look for other sources (hopefully less biased ones) to back up what they're saying.

I'm referring to the first source. I have no comments about the second source. I'm just disturbed that you all believe that this person openly proposed ethnic cleansing because of that one source.

Why shouldn't the Israeli Press be believed in this rather than al Jeezera? What is the loyalty of al Jezeera? Do they have an interest in demonizing Israel? Of course they do, and they have consistently shown it. The al Jazera press also shows suicide bombers in hunters mode with their victims. You can bet it's biased.

has an interest in demonizing Palestinians. That makes as much sense...

If you could actually give examples instead of stating opinion, it would give you more credibility.

if you don't recognize that then we don't have much to talk about sorry...

:shrug:

The first one, is the article that is the subject of this thread. That is why I posted it.

The second source, presents both versions of the history, although to me, it seems clear which is credible.

I never said whether or not I believed "this person openly proposed ethnic cleansing ". And in fact that is immaterial to the point I was making.

remember Dick Armey suggesting that we give them parts of the US west? I really did hear him suggest this , I just can't remember where he said this. I remember marveling that someone so high up could be so inept socially. Since *ush doen't like Nevada, or at least doesn't like the Las Vegas area, maybe he'll offer them Vegas.

...to move Israel anywhere. Pure fantasy. But Israelis won't bomb you if you say it.

This is a big accusation, and I don't trust that source alone for believing it.

It was a news story, Jackie, not an opinion piece, where I do think bias does come into things in a big way. What would be so shocking about an influential Likudnik supporting ethnic cleansing? You are aware that Benny Elon openly supports it?

Violet...

the idea that the person openly said it. I have no problem believing that a Likud person is for ethnic cleansing; just that they're openly advocating it as a final solution and that he's not in big trouble now for being open about it.

It was a news piece. So what? It was also a news piece when the US media reported that Iraqi soldiers went to Kuwait and killed premature babies. It was a *false* news story.

A friend of mine also told me of a news story that he found on LGF about how the head of Hamas supposedly said that he would keep killing Jews no matter what (at the time when Hamas was openly declaring a ceasefire). That open wording of that makes me as skeptic as the story in this thread does. LGF's threads, like DU, always has a source to "back up" what they're saying. However, I couldn't find the thread that he was talking about, so I couldn't find the source to see if it was reliable. I also looked up on the internet to see if I could find it, and came up empty. I even e-mailed the head of LGF to see if they would tell me which thread it was so I could check out the source. I just got the automatic e-mail. In the end, I decided not to believe it until I could see something to back it up from either a reliable source or from maybe more than one source that might be believable. My mother told me how she saw from the "news" special on TV how the Arab world was supposedly all reading Hitler's book and all supposedly wanting to kill all of the Jews. However, I couldn't see this source for myself to examine it, and I've seen evidence of the opposite. My mom couldn't even remember which news source it was. In the end, my mother was pissed off at me for not taking her word for it.

I can't make an exception on the Palestinian side of the issue. One thing that Iearned a long, long time ago, it's that different parts of the media are twisting facts and flat out lying for their cause; especially on both sides of the I/P conflict. I didn't make an exception on the side of Israel, and I won't make an exception on the side of the Palestinians. I'm too big of a skeptic on this subject, and I wish that you all on both sides would pick up some of that skepticism instead of just believing things portrayed as a "news story".

From JPost:

"The 100-page booklet includes many proposals. Ra'anana Deputy Mayor Uzi Cohen's ideas include transferring Palestinians to a new state that would be carved between Jordan and Syria, giving the central committee the right to choose the Likud's leader, and increasing the number of MKs to 160."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1073189811779

What was pointed out in this thread was that Uzi Cohen isn't an MK, but a member of the Likud Central Committee and Deputy Mayor of Ra'anana. That he had said it wasn't in question. Why would he be in big trouble for openly expressing his views when Benny Elon is a member of Sharon's Cabinet and gets away with terrorising Palestinians without getting into any trouble?

I'm struggling a bit here to understand why yr so disbelieving that this man could have said this...

Violet...

If an overly biased towards Israel source like the JP confirms it, then it must be true. Just like if the original source ends up claiming that Arafat did something horrible, I'll have to believe it. I figure it has to be true if ever their own side is saying it.

The reason why I was so disbelieving about it is because I'm just not used to hearing politicians openly advocate it or any other brutal foreign policy. For example, think of the US sanctions against Iraq. There was even a document from the Defense Intelligence Agency which said that these sanctions would be deadly if they went through with it because their clean water supply would deteriorate within months, causing diseases. Our government knew ahead of time that they were about to kill God knows how many Iraqi citizens. We also are sure that our government did this for oil because evidence has pointed towards that. However, did you ever hear George H.W. Bush or Bill Clinton *openly* say "We're going to commit genocide against the Iraqis as a "final solution" so we can get their oil for the purpose of keeping our oil supply safe in the economy"? No, you never heard that. What you did hear was that the US placed sanctions upon Hussein to protect ourselves from WMD's and that Hussein could supposedly stop the deaths, but was holding back all of the money. Even Nazi Germany never openly told the Germans that they were going to commit genocide against the Jews and try to kill them all off from the world. Instead, they said that they were deporting the Jews so Germany could be Jew free supposedly for their own protection. Many of times in Israel, the politicians do not come straight out and use the terms "ethnic cleansing" and "final solution" as a way to deal with the Palestinians. Remember, the Israeli government is trying to make Israelis think that they (not the Palestinians) are the ones in danger of being exterminated. They might use the term "transfer", which many people don't realize is ethnic cleansing (especially since many Jews were ethnically cleansed from the ME countries and driven to Israel), but I've never heard an open statement in favor of "ethnic cleansing" or a "final solution".

One thing about politics is that a politician often can't come straight out and say something without getting in trouble. They have to make it look like what they're doing isn't so bad, and that it's justified. That's why I had a hard time with believing this one.

How quaint.

Israel has been engaged in systematic, brutal ethnic cleansing for 37 years, even if we forget about the ethnic cleansing that founded the state of Israel.

Israel isn't like Rwanda or Serbia. They do it slowly, systematically, with sophistication, with good press, by playing the victim, which in some ways is even worse.

http://images.maariv.co.il/channels/1/ART/620/862.html (scroll down)

Cheerful fellow, ain't he? :)

Note: those who questioned the Al Jazeera piece are correct, since Cohen is not an MK (as others have noted above). However, he is very important within Likud. The Hebrew article above specifically notes that this sort of insane plan would usually come from the standard right wing loons, not people like him.

What's up with the orangey panhandle on Jordan?

That's Palestine.

Don't you know your history?

Anyway, give the guy a break. He obviously hasn't finished colouring it in yet. I don't see any rivers of blood...

There is no Palestine, and no Palestinians, either,
and there never have been, that was all just made up
to annoy Israel after they started building stuff in the
empty desert, out of jealousy most likely.