Can someone explain to me two things......

1. How can Bush and Sharon have their plans taken seriously when they have excluded any discussion with the Palestinian authorities?

I'm not being odd or taking one side over another here, but I just don't get it. It's akin to a husband agreeing divorce terms with his own lawyer, but not getting the approval of his wife and her lawyer.

I can understand the US providing mediation, facilitation and encouragement during the whole negotiation process, but what I can't understand is how the US & Israel making agreements is of any consequence if the Palestinians aren't involved as well.

What is the US bringing to the table here? Why is the situation any better now?

2. How can Israel assert its own "right of return" to land that its ancestors left 2,000 years ago, but simulataneously deny Palestinians the right of return to homes they left 50 years ago?

I'm not asking for a "political argument" on this one, I'm asking how, in practice, Israel is doing this.

As an addition, if one were to recognise Israel's right of return after 2,000 years, does this have signficant impact on other issues. For example, if Israel still has this right after so long, don't the descendants of slaves have a right to compensation for something that only happened 100 - 200 years ago?

It has the guns. Period.

As for why the plan can be taken seriously, that is because most of the media (and intellectual culture generally) takes it as a given that the US and Israel have the right to do whatever they please, and the consequences for the 'insignificant nations' are irrelevant.

In simpler terms, the Palestinians are not considered to have any human rights. You would not ask them for their opinion on important matters, just as you would not ask the donkeys in the WB for their opinion.

I'm generalising of course, but the above is pretty close to true.

This pronouncement seems to be a veiled dare for Palestinians to "bring it on."
Why now?
Why so blatant a pronouncement?

I can't help but fear the Bush* is so desperate to deflect attention from his many failures that he is willing to allow Sharon to push the red button.

I hope I'm wrong.

Headline in the Hebrew media:

"Sharon threatens, Bush surrenders"

Since it violates I/P rules to start a post without an article, I will respond. (I woke up early.)

1. The Palestinian authorities have marginalized themselves by refusing to end terror or end their support of it. In effect, they are forcing Israel's hand to make a mandated agreement and just move on.

Since it is clear that many elements inside the Palestinian terror network won't accept any deal, Israel has little to lose by antagonizing them.

2. The right of return is complex. Actually, the UN asserted Israel's right to having a state. There were still many Jews living in Israel prior to 1948, so it wasn't just "return" as much as acknowledging a state. The UN also created a Palestinian state and the Arab attack destroyed that.

The state of Israel is the homeland for the Jewish people -- a people who have suffered 2,000 years of abuse, murder and Holocaust around the globe. The UN action acknowledged that Jews needed their own state to help prevent more of this activity. The right of return for Arabs would destroy that homeland.

In practice, that is how Israel is doing this.

In my defence, my questions are based entirely on UK TV news from this morning, where presenters were asking similar questions of reporters.

On BBC Breakfast news they had a Palestinian representative in the studio and were covering the same ground with her.

Don't know whether that's good enough to avoid a locking!

As always, it's up to the mods.

Now, care to elaborate on the genesis and explanation of the term "monkey-trumpets?" I'm dying to know.

and thought that it was a good substitute for swearing!

Especially as I am vaguely obsessed with monkeys....

P.

That is a clear statement. The Palestinians can't have their state and their terrorists , too. They can't force Israel to :
1)concede to Palestinian border demands
2)give over their state to the Palestinians at the same time.

No negotiations as long as terror and terrorists remain in the PA government.

Not based on a recent news or op-ed article.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground