Were there not Israeli terrorists before 1948?

Flame away.

a certain ignorance of the Israeli/Palestinian issue but for further reading - this is by no means an exhaustive list:

* November 1944. terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.

* July 1946. terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing or injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.

* December 1947. terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas, after bombing an Arab market-place and Arab cafe. 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.

* December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked a village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found 10 bodies, including 5 children.

* December 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 injured, in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

* December 1947. Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.

* January 1948. Haganah blew up the The Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem killing 20 people

* March 1948. The Stern Gang drove an army truck up to the Salam building in Haifa and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives. 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured.

* March 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.

* March 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.

* April 1948. Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including women and children. Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.

If you do a tiny bit of research you'll note that Israeli society absolutely LIONISES these people, votes them into the highest office, dedicates memorials to them builds museums to honour them.

For some strange reason, Palestinians being distressed at Arafat's passing is proof of some warped Palestinian mind set yet the overt glofication of Zionist terror is not

my point was that the poster seemed to toss out flame bait without taking an initial position, and thus incurring no risk. I object to that.

mine was that something well documented shouldn't need to explained every time it's posted - if I post that Bush's cronies display fascistic tendencies I don't expect to have to re-post every tit bit about the Patriot ACt, what's happening in Gitmo, FBI visits to people who make Bush jokes in bars etc etc - especially not here as it's assumed people already know.

I guess in the I/P I shouldn't make that assumption - funny though, people are happy with "Arafat the terrorist" (btw I don't disagree) type posts without wanting detailed run throughs of all his crimes but when people point out the "other" side has teh same skeletons in the closet it's flamage?

Yes, dear. The Stern Gang was well known. Blew up the King David hotel. They were attacking the British.

Now, doesn't that justify every foul, vicious, murderous thing Arafat ever did?

I'm sure it does. For some people.

or else Rabin wouldn't be laying in the ground with a hole in his head.

Really loose definition, honey.

extremist Israeli groups engaged in their own battles of hate and vengeance.

Fortunately, when we have heard about them in the news it is because they've been thwarted by Israeli police or military.

One bullet in the prime minister over land rights speaks volumes.

Really, both sides disgust me equally. The only sad thing I think is that like here in the U.S., it's only the violent bastards on both sides that make the news, not the moderates or people who dare to have any kind of real vision for a future.

Now, doesn't that justify every foul, vicious, murderous thing Arafat ever did? I'm sure it does. For some people.

Many seem to think that because of Palestinian terrorists everything Sharon/IDF/Likud has done is justified :shrug:

I'm sure it's an excellent one.

Not shooting missiles into crowds.
Not blowing up houses because of a relatives actions.
Not shooting schoolgirls 20 times.


Are these "justified" to you aquart?

From your posts down here I suspect I already know the answer,but I'd love to be wrong.

this is being screeched all over the place today - yet somehow "pro-Israeli" (I hate that term because I don't considered myself "anti" Israeli but for want of a better one...) posters REGULARLY justify violence by the IDF by referring to Palestinian terrorism.

Good for the goose and all that?

And then started electing them after they'd retired.

state sanctioned terrorism is better than the other kind how?

Torquemada and Vlad the Impaler...

Vlad tended to impale invaders.

Torquemada was not a head of state.

Care to try again?

Gilles de Rais and H. H. Holmes?...

you mean we aren't playing Jeopardy?...and here I am coming up with Evil People Before 1948 for $1,000...

never mind...

Zionists terrorists pioneered the bombing of buses but that's irrelevant because it happened in the 40's - but what Arafat did in the 70's is relevant??

just curious - what the cut off, obviously somewhere between 1940's and the 1970's?

n/t

so most of Arafat's crimes (including the murder of the athletes in Munich) are discounted as part of history's dustbin as are all of Hitler, Stalins, Pol Pot's... Remind me to call you for a moral makeover if I ever decide to become a homicidal maniac

?

They all are. His methods did not work. He was a failure.

He only became famous, not successful.

Billions in a personal account. Embassies in 96 nations. Welcomed at the UN. Lotta people been displaced in this world. Any of them have that?

HE NEVER NEGOTIATED IN GOOD FAITH. Why? So many possible reasons.

1. The people who bankrolled him wanted the Palestinian refugees as a deliberate disquiet in the Middle East because peace with Israel might mean open borders and trade with Israel, the only western-style democracy in the area and NOBODY wanted that idea to catch on.

2. He couldn't face an audit.

3. He didn't want the loss of power that could result in forming a state under western auspices since they would all insist on elections.

That's three off the top of my head. You?

I believe there was money that isn't accounted for. Certainly, absolutely not billions.

He probably couldn't face an audit, I will agree with you on that. Do I believe that is why he wouldn't cede power? That's very simplistic.

As to your point #1 - that's so ridiculous it doesn't even bear a response other than a tin foil hat smilie.

I don't understand personal anger on this topic. I'm certainly not an Arafat supporter, nor a believer in zionism (of any kind). I think that Israel has been utterly despiccable to the Palestinian people, and continues to be, and I think that Palestinians have not responded wisely or effectively. It's the Hatfields and the McCoys at this point, and keeping alive old hatreds is what is keeping the situation from ever being able to move forward.

For every example of horror inflicted by a Palestinian on some innocent settler, there is a story of horror inflicted on a Palestinian family by the Israeli state. There are no good guys in that story.

without some people just assuming that you are anti-semitic. If you step into it be aware that even normally rational people become irrational on the topic.

Terrorism is an overused word.

When some stupid child straps a bomb to his ass and blows up a cafe because his brother was shot in a raid, it's not terrorism any more. It's revenge. When somebody takes a bit of extra human collateral from their gunship while chasing terrorists who killed their sister at the cafe, it's revenge.

There really are not terrorists under every fucking rock people.

They are all barbarians, the whole lot of them. And the war there will not end until it is fought with knives.

OR

Both sides come to a compromise that both can live with.

That the media uses to "prove" the Republicans are no worse than the Democrats.

Good going, there.

Not based on a recent news or op-ed article.

Lithos
I/P Moderator
Democratic Underground