Abbas strikes note of defiance as Palestinian presidential contest begins

Associating himself heavily with the legacy of the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, the moderate former premier delivered an uncharacteristically hardline message to Israel, which has been looking to his election as a historic chance for a breakthrough in the Middle East peace process.


In his speech to around 2,000 supporters in Ramallah, Abbas spelled out his vision of an independent Palestine built on all the land Israel has occupied since 1967. Jerusalem, the holy city the Israeli government regards as its undivided capital, would be the Palestinian capital.

"We want a state on the lands of '67 and that means we will not concede Jerusalem," he added.

snip


On the issue of refugees, Abbas said he would continue to hold out for an implementation of UN General Assembly Resolution 194, which stipulates the right of return for Palestinians who either fled or were expelled from their homes when the state of Israel was created.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041225/wl_mideast_afp/mideast_041225162121&e=2

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Oh great...An Arafat wanna-be.

Abbas ...

Demands Right of Return unconditionally
Demands Jerusalem entirely
Refuses to Dismantle the TERRORISTS uneqivocally
Demands release of all prisoners immediately
Demands the Peace Fence be removed unhesitatingly


yup.....same fuckface.

Finally, Bush and Sharon have a new excuse to continue expanding the illegal settlements, slowly pushing certain Yesha natives into the dead sea.

So....whats your opinion on Abbas ??

My opinion of Abbas? I think that Sharon will be able to get rid of him sooner than he got rid of Arafat. Of course, one must ask, who will be blamed next after Abbas?

.... I mean the part about pushing a group of people into the sea?

It sounds familiar to me....

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Well, in 1948 and 1967, Israel not only expanded further towards the dead sea, but prevented more of the natives from returning, pressuring them towards the dead sea. In 2003, Israel expanded further towards the dead sea and even received Bush's stamp of approval. In 2005, Israel will expand even further towards the dead sea.

Certainly in '48 the intention and the hope of the Arab Nationalists was to drive Jews entirely from the land: that matters developed otherwise does not alter the fact of that intention.

"The best laid plans of Mice and Men oft gang a'glee."

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That claim to me appears to be an incredibly simplistic representation of what the aims of the Arab states involved in the war of 48 actually were. While that claim would cater well to the frothing at the mouth *Arabs are frothing, murderous, anti-Semites* brigade with it's vision of the war aims of the Arab states as being one and the same, I think I can see quite a few problems with it...

Violet...

As befits a single sentence summary of a large and complex event. But it seems one that is true enough for the purpose.

What do you think, on the basis of your own studies of the matter, would have been the consequences for the Jewish population of Israel had their military arm gone down to defeat in '48, as many expected it would do?

I'd really like to get some idea of the specific reasons you believe the Arab states that declared war on Israel the day after it declared independence were one same-thinking group of anti-Semites with all the same aims, which was to entirely rid Palestine of all Jews...

If anyone were to take a guess at what the consequences would have been for the Jewish population of Israel, it'd only be a guess and not worth much at all. I could give it a try though, just for entertainment value if you want, but I'd be taking two guesses, rather than one. But I thought we were talking about war-aims rather than how the war panned out?

Violet...

That is a somewhat different category than Arab States; certainly Trans-Jordan, a close and loyal client of England, would not come under that rubric.

It does not seem to me possible to deny that the aim of forces and elements loyal to the Mufti, and the forces of Qawukji (he of the many spellings...) in the Gallilee under Syrian sponsorship, was anything less than the driving out of all Jews from Palestine. Nor does it seem likely to me that, in the event of the defeat of Israeli military forces, any of the state powers involved would have prevented these forces from carrying out that design.

The major players in the war of 48 were the Arab states and Israel, as the Palestinian groups had been in open conflict with the Zionists from when the partition plan was announced, and that just continued after the declaration of statehood. And confusion possibly because someone rather clumsily tried to make out that the wars of 48, 67, and 73 were all ones where 'driving the Jews into the sea' was the goal...

As for the goals of the Palestinian nationalists, it's more than possible that they wanted the Zionists gone. Whether by that point they'd blurred the lines between Zionists and the Jewish communities who had lived in Palestine in peace for so long, I'm thinking that it would have been blurred in the same way that the Zionists started seeing all Palestinian Arabs as hostile, with no regard to whether they were living in peace or not...

Violet...

Radicals existed on both sides. Both sides had their gangs which practiced "terrorism". However, both Jews and Palestinians had lived together under conditions of harmony for hundreds of years. The idea that all Palestinians wanted to drive all Jews into the sea is simply foolish and there is no evidence to back up this claim. Even if small violent gangs had attempted such, the Palestinian people would have defended their Jewish friends.

It is furthermore important to recognize that Palestinians in the 40's did not riot and protest to remove Jews. Rather, they rioted and protested because they wanted independence in a nation which consisted of both Jews and Palestinians and rightfully feared the conditions of a "Jewish" State.

Unfortunately, the demographic realities on the ground since 1948 have been demonstrating the problems of a "Jewish" state which has been slowly pushing Palestinians into the dead sea, expanding further towards it year after year without giving most natives citizenship and equality in their homeland.

What Palestinians feared in 1904, they still fear in 2004, 100 years later. They are still being pushed out of their homeland, pushed into the dead sea.

It is not often a King plays the Jester, as you have done here, and to excellent effect. Many thanks for the laugh....

"The mind wobbles...."