First Jewish settlers agree Gaza move

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=596145

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"Twenty families in a small Israeli farming community deep in the southern Gaza Strip yesterday became the first Jewish settlement to agree to move inside Israel under Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan.

The 50 adults and more than 100 children at Pe'at Sadeh will settle in Mavki'im, an ailing smallholders' co-operative near the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon. With government assistance, they plan to rebuild their greenhouses and continue growing tomatoes, peppers and other salads for export to Europe. Five families from neighbouring settlements have signed up to join them.

Yonathan Basi, who is overseeing civilian aspects of the evacuation, welcomed their decision as "the beginning of a great movement of settlers towards dialogue with us", though he admitted others were slow to reach agreement. In all, 8,500 settlers are to be evacuated from 21 Gaza settlements and four from the northern West Bank. The first group could move as early as March."

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"Motti Levy, one of the Pe'at Sadeh farmers, said: "We founded the settlement in 1989 for ideological reasons, and we never thought we'd have to leave. It hurts us a lot. But we're law-abiding people. We accept the government's decision."

A free gaza is first step, turning 89% of west bank into long lasting greater jewish state,will secure peace.

I also think that a one-state solution is the best solution. In a few years, the people of Gaza will return home to live with their Palestinian partners under conditions of equality. I wonder what these folks thought about living in Gaza without having the same legal status as the natives living there.

your big on a one state soluton, but i get the feeling your not too knowledgable about the cultures involved.

for example in your one state solution...what will happen to the cultural icons of israel, its museums, which celebrate the history of judiaism/zionism, the archeological digs which emphisise the history of the jews to the land, the many works of art which landscape israel which represent jewish history.

in your "one state solution" the palestinains really wont be too happy with them....which culture is the lesser one? which one gets their cultural icons and which one doesnt?

the "national museum"....which history will it show?

I'm also a big fan of a two-state solution. Anything that all of the people agree upon is fine with me.

However, I do recognize the following important difference between a one-state solution and a two-state solution:

- A one-state solution is more likely to protect all culture than a two-state solution.

Why? A one-state solution will be more culturally mixed and thus more culturally aware, being forced by the people to protect and preserve both cultures. A two-state solution, on the otherhand, will lack the voice and power of the other culture to protect and preserve its culture in the other half.

Thus, I prefer a one-state solution. In a democratic environment, people learn to give and take so that everyone will be happy.

the present two societies are up to their neck in nationalism/self identity etc...

it will take a couple of generations to reduce the cultural tensions and suspicions. Latest example is the structure were the dome of the rock sits is falling apart, though israeli engineers discovered the problem, the palestenians would only accept jordanian/egyptian engineers to solve it.....(with israeli advice...)

and after that period where neighborly relations exist and if the palesteians do develp a democratic society, there really wont be a need for a one state solution.

If the palestenians dont succeed in developing a democratic society, then obviously a one state solution would endanger israels democracy....either way, there is no need for it.

Well, Palestinians living west of the green line, in the US or Europe are a democratic society. Palestinians simply need to be a part of a democratic government. Palestinians in the occupied territories will become a part of the Israeli democratic government unless Israel creates a two-state solution.

With a two-state solution, the People living in the independent state of Palestine will need assistance to create and protect a democrate government. Hopefully, if a two state solution is created, the people living in the state will have someone whom they can trust to assist them in creating a government that will be beneficial for them.

thats the hope...they'll get israeli assistance and in fact are very aware of democracy in action (during their years in detention the palestenians have an "education system" that amongst other things teachs them about democracy).

at anyrate they have a lot of political "undoing to do." Arafat made an incredible mess over there, and we shall all be watching to see how they do.

Simply for security reasons that cant be a single state solution, since that would require giving the palestinians full citizenship, freedom of movement etc. Besides, there is nothing that i've heard that says they want a single state. The two societies will get along fine, once palestine is up and running....

You are correct that Arafat made life difficult for Zionists, encouraging Palestinians to stand up and speak out for their rights. This caused an incredible mess for Zionists who had to change their plans to accomodate for such.

Security is a police problem. More crime means the need for more police. More police means that criminals end up in jail. It is seldom that people choose which country that they want to live in. Most of the time, people are born within political borders which attempt to define their nationality. Citizenship and equality for everyone within certain political borders sometimes takes a while to recognize, but it does come eventually for the benefit of everyone. Sometimes, it takes some time for everyone to realize that conditions of equality are the best for everybody.

no arafat made an incedible mess for the palestenians...their society is run by several overlapping groups of pseudo freedom fighters who also have a bad habit of "shaking down the locals" for donations. How they are going to rein them in, is a very sensitive subject

and I really dont have to go int to the details of them settling their own scores via the gun, do I? (100 Palestinians were killed by Palestinian civilians on suspicion of collaborating with Israel. 19 of them were killed while held in the custody of the Palestinian security forces- http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Al_Aqsa_Fatalities_Tables.asp

their freedom of the press, was stilfled when arafat and company 'came to town". etc. etc etc etc. He created a socity of the "tunisians vs the locals"....and its the tunisians that run the place.

their society has a long way to go as its a mixture of some western ideals, traditional arab/islamic culture mixed in with a the addition of the gun culture.

they will have to straighten themselves out, as well as take responsability for their own society without "blaming anybody else for it...as that is the first step toward independence. This no doubt will be a difficult step as it requires admitting ones faults, going through self criticism, etc. But without that, they have little hope of going on to the next step which involves civil rights for all (this would be a first for an arab/islamic country) hence they have a lot to do.

While what you say sounds nice, it will never happen. It's not possible. The illegal settlements will expand so much that they will never be removed. In fact, it's not moral to remove the illegal settlements because transfers are unacceptable. Thus, if we follow your logic, a two-state solution is impossible and there will be a one-state solution.

I think that the reason why Yesha (the occupied territories) has more problems than Israel is because the Palestinians of Israel have citizenship and more rights in Israel than the Palestinians in Yesha. The best method of discouraging Palestinians from fighting for equality is to give them equality, since they are going to get it anyways given the expansion of the settlements. Why not recognize such sooner rather than later? The sooner that citizenship and equality for everyone is recognized, the more lives that will be saved.

I'm hoping this is sarcastic....