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'Let me fight my monsters' (New Play on Rachel Corrie)

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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 09:03 PM
Original message
'Let me fight my monsters' (New Play on Rachel Corrie)
Friday April 8, 2005
The Guardian

There is a particular entry in Rachel Corrie's diary, probably written some time in 1999, four years before she was killed by an Israeli bulldozer in the Gaza Strip trying to prevent the demolition of Palestinian homes. She is aged 19 or 20. "Had a dream about falling, falling to my death off something dusty and smooth and crumbling like the cliffs in Utah," she writes, "but I kept holding on, and when each foothold or handle of rock broke I reached out as I fell and grabbed a new one. I didn't have time to think about anything - just react as if I was playing an adrenaline-filled video game. And I heard, 'I can't die, I can't die,' again and again in my head."

Article continues
Last year, I was asked by the Royal Court theatre to edit the writings of Rachel Corrie into a drama with Alan Rickman, who was also directing. I had read the powerful emails she sent home from Gaza, serialised in G2 in the days after her death, and I'd read eye-witness accounts on the internet. But I didn't know that Rachel's early writing - before she even thought of travelling to the Middle East, from her days as a schoolgirl, through college, to life working at a mental-health centre in her home town of Olympia, Washington - would be similarly fascinating, and contain such elements of chilling prescience. Nor did I have a sense of the kind of person Rachel Corrie was: a messy, skinny, Dali-loving, listmaking chainsmoker, with a passion for the music of Pat Benatar. I discovered all that later.

Rachel was killed, aged 23, on March 16 2003, by a Caterpillar D-9 bulldozer, a vehicle especially built to demolish houses. Three decades before, her father had driven bulldozers in Vietnam for the US army. Her death was the first of a string of killings of westerners in Gaza in spring 2003, as the war was taking place in Iraq: Briton Tom Hurndall, 22, shot on April 11; another Briton, cameraman James Miller, 34, shot on May 16. She and Hurndall were activists in the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), an organisation set up "to support Palestinian non-violent resistance to Israel's military occupation". Rachel was killed only two days before the start of the assault on Baghdad while the world was mostly looking elsewhere.

<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,1454963,00.html

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 09:08 PM
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classof56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. My eyes are blurred with tears, so I hope no one will mind me saying...
if she were my daughter I'd be very, very proud of her, and immeasurably sorry that she's gone. I hope Rachel's parents are proud and know that we share their sorrow.

I have a beautiful blonde-haired daughter (and a dark-haired one, too). My heart aches...

Tired Old Cynic
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-05 09:49 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 05:52 AM
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. There IS that side of the equation. How convenient it is to
ignore. However, people are bringing in arms through the tunnels.

Hello?

The arms are not kids' toys, they are made to kill and maim.

I don't understand why promoting the importation of arms, demonizing attempts to STOP the importation of arms, brings peace.

Can somebody explain?

Like everyone else, I deplore the loss of innocent life and I hate the people lost their homes. But this other factor is REAL.

So? I am listening.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. So if there might possibly be a tunnel nearby...
the house should be bulldozed?
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. AAARRRGGHHHHHH. You know me better than that. I
hate that this happened.

BUT - this was a WAR.

Let me point something out: most nations, under that kind of provocation, wouldn't have gone to court and used a bulldozer.

The United States, for example, would have loaded up a B-52 and carpet bombed the entire region. You know this is true, and most of the citizens would have respected the decision. In fact, the world's worst administration is sitting in the White House at the moment, due to this respect Americans have for their personal rear ends.

The Israelis, not well I'll grant you, are trying to stop a war POLITELY.

***

I'm NOT saying these efforts have worked out well, or that Palestinians haven't been hurt, or that it isn't sad about Ms. Corrie - but the arms are being smuggled to this day, they KILL PEOPLE, and I doubt that even complete release of the territories would stop that. I doubt it will EVER stop.

So, we are supposed to lie down and get attacked? AS USUAL?

Sorry, I'm getting mad here. Not at you, you understand, but at the perception that Jews are OK if they're getting killed, otherwise, forgetaboutit.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. You are quite right about the likely US response...
US foreign policy is far, far worse than Israel's is, and has always been.

We disagree somewhat on the prospects for peace, though. A viable Palestinian state created through a more-or-less just peace plan would very likely refuse to allow the sort of militant activity going on there now to continue. The current Palestinain Authority, which still does not possess much power, has made some progress in that direction, and hopefully that will continue.

If terrorist attacks continue after a peace solution, and such attacks are not state-sponsored, then the proper response on Israel's part would not be to invade Palestine, smash villages, bulldoze houses, and shoot people, but to enhance the security situation in their own country. Self-defense is justified, but it is a right that should be exercised proportionally and with caution.
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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. And if
in that situation, "enhancing the security" solely with actions within Israeli territory is ineffective* - and the Palestinian government abstains from any action?

*keep the scale in mind; for example, a suicide bomber can leave Qalqilya and be inside the town of Kfar Saba after 20 minutes on foot; that doesn't give a lot of opportunity for interception.
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I am 100% with you, that a strong free Palestinian state is
absolutely the best security Israel AND the Palestinians could have, and connections between people that already exist - familial, economic, friendship - would only be enhanced. The two societies would knit themselves together, if not be actually in love with other - and the radicals on both sides, one hopes, would grow fewer.

I would hope in time, these would just be seen as simple criminals, like we have in Chicago, who are dangerous, but who are not seen as a threat to the stability of the whole city. Of course, a cultural change would have to occur - eventually - which would make violence as a means of political discourse - unacceptable.

This might take time, though! There's been so much rhetoric, so much hate and fear, for so long. Plus there are truly reactionary forces about, and religious nuts, and so forth.

People don't realize, I think, that 1,000,000 plus Israeli citizens are Arabs, already there is great diversity within Israel. Eventually, I would hope that people could live on both sides of the line, Jews in Arab areas too, without fear.

Agree with you too, about unnecessary violence.

The self-defense issue, that of course overlaps with that hideous wall. It has helped reduce terror, which has reduced counterattacks. But I truly hate the whole idea. Still, if in the short term it helps, I suspect that over time it would disappear.

As far as the desire to take revenge, to retaliate - that's hard. That's a disease of the human heart, we all have it though, unless we are saints:)
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simcha_6 Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. I doubt it could stop it
The only way a Palestinian state would stop violence is if

1.) Hamas was in control of presidency and parliament

2.) Israel allowed this

3.) Hamas found some way to profit from being in power so that it gave up its goal of destroying Israel (i.e. it sold out to capitalism.)

4.) It managed to control its rogue elements
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. You're quite right
that arms kill people.

Apache helicopters, guns, and tanks while not exactly smuggled into isreali still ensure a fiery grave
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. the systematic bulldozing for houses had nothing to do with tunnels...
please provide 2 credible sources which find evidence of tunnels.
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Yosie Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Two - that's even more then the US District Court requires.
You set a very high standard - even higher then the Federal Rules of Civil procedure and the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure (except for treason)

You must be Hastings or Boalt Hall.
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. journalism not law school... n/t.
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silverlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. It's my understanding that the
tunnels are used as an "excuse" per se. If you've seen the pictures, tunnels are very difficult to construct through all the rock. It has been done, but is a rarity. If tunnels were in the reasoning, they would be going through the homes and perform a search. The house where Rachel Currie was killed was proved not to have a tunnel.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It is my understanding that the Palestinians receive advanced notice of demolitions, but have no recourse to a formal hearing or a request for a search to prove the tunnels exist. They just simply have to wait, not knowing exactly when their "block" will be selected. They will generally "hear thru the grapevine" that they are next up for demolition.
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. more or less but pelsar will know more.
Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 04:42 PM by idontwantaname
my understanding as far as house demolitions go is that there is no set rule.

i suppose a person could attempt to legally challenge it but even if the court rules in the home owners favor the military does what it wants.

some home demolitions are "eye for an eye" for suicide bombers families and/or families who are related to a "fighter"... al-aqsa or hamas for example.
many families i have met did not support the individuals choice whether its fighter or bomber... yet the home gets listed among those to be demolished.

some cases like the one a couple months back of the suicide bomber from nablus/balata area... the army reacted very quickly and demolished the families home less than 24 hours after the bombing.. and gave 20 min. notice to remove valuables and furniture.

other homes have been notified theyre up for demolition and the family may wait years before action is taken.

in the past internationals/israelis present along with ICAHD could buy the family time to remove valuables and such...
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. house demolitions....
Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 06:38 PM by pelsar
idontwantaname got it right as far as I understand.....its not clear what the "rules" are. bascially is was a punishment, the idea being that if the suicidebomber/shooter doesnt care about himself he might think twice if his family will lose their home, also tried was blocking up the house.....sometimes it worked...sometimes not...the timing of the demolitions related alot to the damage and atmoshpere as well as geographical placement...

as far as the tunnels go...and the rafiah area...its great for tunnel building as its very soft dirt and the tunnels go deep. When machinery is needed for a particular spot the palestenians would start a fire fight to cover the noise.....as far as "evidence".....its kind of strange for me to call on "military briefings" or a unit that came after mine and lost a reservist to a palestenian who came to the erez industrial area via a tunnel.....(we received the details after) several IDF bases that had bombs placed "under" them in Gaza in the last few years

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/rafah1004/6.htm
And Palestinian armed groups admit receiving weapons from Egypt through tunnels in Rafah....

today, the tunnels are operated by a reportedly small group of smugglers who plan, dig, and maintain the passages, transporting goods for whomever pays.  The exit shafts are usually dug in private homes, both inhabited and abandoned


there are enough picts if you do a google search for tunnels and gaza


a search could be done..but that would require a major operation and cost IDF lives as the rafiah area is full of snipers.....hence the easier alternative is to fire up one of the D9s and go on info-whether that info is right or wrong.

in the end it appears that the IDF has come to the conclusion that the house demolitions dont deter anything and it appears to have been stopped.....but i haven heard anything else one way or another.
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Yosie Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Half Right and Half Wrong and No Cigar
1. "The house where Rachel Currie was killed was proved not to have a tunnel." - Not what I have read -- but I am not going to get into a infinite loop "swearing contest."

2. "Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It is my understanding that the Palestinians receive advanced notice of demolitions, but have no recourse to a formal hearing or a request for a search to prove the tunnels exist." Unlike in the United States under the Bush-Ashcroft Patriot Act - they do have recourse to the court to enjoin the destruction of their house.

3. "They will generally "hear thru the grapevine" that they are next up for demolition." No they do get further notice - which frequently triggers a second round of hearings.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - do not confuse Israeli lawyers and the Israeli Justice system with Texas lawyers like John Cornyn and Alberto Gonzales and James Baker and John "Swift Boat" O'Neil and Texas courts like the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals. (I actually practiced in Nueces and Harris Counties)
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. All of this is moot. I posted an article some time ago,
confirming that the Israeli government has stopped the demolitions altogether.

Of course, since this was good news, nobody commented and the post vanished in the haze.

However, it was my understanding that the house thing also had to do with the hiding of said smuggled arms, duh, not necessarily because they were sitting on the tunnels. Also, people were accused of housing violent militants.

I think, though, it was awful; I'm not saying it was good - on the contrary! But there WAS a rationale, and the arms traffic hasn't stopped.

In any case, as I said, it's OVER. We are moving forward, let's PLEASE try to help heal this situation and not aggravate the injuries!

Another article I posted, which got NO attention, indicates that the settlement houses in Gaza will probably be left to the P.A.

I'd like to point out something else: there are NO PEACE AGREEMENTS in place, the militants are NOT disarming, just waiting - and yet Israel is giving up land, settlements and security and indicating the will to use the army, if necessary, against its own citizens in order to move this process forward.

Those are profound concessions, which could well result in thanks being given in the form of more violence.



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Deleted message
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silverlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. I met her parents
Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 12:43 AM by silverlib
on a tour where they have taken up her cause. It was a peaceful cause, or should I say, a cause promoting peace.

She and her group stood many times between the houses and the caterpillars, not necessarily to stop the demolitions, but to slow them down. When they stood, the number of demolitions went down daily. This particular day, my understanding is, for the first time, the CAT driver was told to proceed before the group she was in was moved.

I saw pictures of this equipment - not your typical CAT. I cannot imagine what else it could be used but to destroy block buildings. Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to its other uses, and I would love to see a source where the modifications were made by the IDF.

Edited to say that I am really looking forward to seeing this production. (sorry, got a little off track)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Concerning the picture;
Where was it taken- Lilliput?!?

And as to the spectacularly crass idea that a photo
of a bulldozer is a suitable addition to this thread,
on this subject..
What next? A photo of a sniper rifle to illustrate a thread
about Tom Hurndall?
A photo of a explosives belt in a thread about a suicide bombing?


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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. englander
Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 10:22 AM by pelsar
it wasnt my intention to be crass about it...i actually just put the http address in for information...-since that was the subject and what it looks like i believe is appropriate

If lithos feels it should be removed, then he should, but sometimes images/pictures help one understand. A bombers belt? ever see one, the more modern ones?...unlike the first versions these are not detectable by simple sight as they are very thin, a picture helps understand, hence many times the palestenains at checkpoints have to open their shirts (degrading?)

ever see a person holding a stick or TV camera at 75 meters, looks like an RPG or a sniper rifle....pictures help understand that.


the image is not attempting to produce an emotional reaction, but more informative, that was my intention
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I know,I know,I believe that your intentions.....
were benign. What you see & what I see when shown a picture
of an armoured Cat are two very different things.

And on the scale,& perspective of the picture,it looks
totally out of scale,that can't be a real picture?

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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. real?
Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 10:51 AM by pelsar
actually i think the cat was "blown larger" then it really is.... though when I posted it I didnt pay that much attention to it. I'm not a photographer expert (photo manipulation I know)..after really looking at it...the people are way way too small, they were probably added for affect

an avg person, if I remember correctly goes up to the height of the upper wheel that holds the tread..so it puts the D9 at apox 4m tall
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The vehicle looks almost twice as large...
as I'd imagine it to be.

I think it's definitely been altered; it looks "wrong"
& not to scale.

I'd guess that whoever put it together was trying to
make a political point,and one that was not of a pro-Israeli
nature.

So,pelsar, it seems you've unintentionally posted some
pro-Palestinian propaganda..! :-)

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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. oh no!
Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 12:53 PM by pelsar
not that!...if this gets back to "world zionist organization" I might get thrown out and lose my shares when we "take over the world"...damn! might have to change my name, go in to hiding........i'm in real trouble now!!!
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Caterpillar D9 Bulldozer
<>


<>

This is a Caterpillar D9 Bulldozer. Caterpillar's web site says that "The size, power and weight of the larger track-type tractors dictate that they are used primarily for major projects. The D9 is most commonly found in use in construction, forestry, mining, waste, and quarry operations."

I grew up in coal mining country (The Interstate 70 corridor through the coal fields of southwestern Pennsylvania, the West Virginia "Panhandle", and Southern Ohio). Saw D9's every day when I was a kid. My dad's family was in the residential and light commercial construction business - the D9 is a workhorse. The D9 is the work horse of strip mining, highway construction, airport construction, urban renewal.

Englander - you may be interested in Wilk and Peyer's picture book
<>



Ciao,

Coastie, Board Certified Professional Engineer (Pennsylvania),
Chartered Professional Engineer (Saskatchewan)
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. And we were getting along so well...
Israel: Caterpillar Should Suspend Bulldozer Sales

Weaponized Bulldozers Used to Destroy Civilian Property and Infrastructure

(New York, November 23, 2004)--Caterpillar Inc., the U.S.-based heavy-equipment company, should immediately suspend sales of its powerful D9 bulldozer to the Israeli army, Human Rights Watch said today. As Human Rights Watch documented in a recent report, the Israeli military uses the D9 as its primary weapon to raze Palestinian homes, destroy agriculture and shred roads in violation of the laws of war.

“Caterpillar betrays its stated values when it sells bulldozers to Israel knowing that they are being used to illegally destroy Palestinian homes,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “Until Israel stops these practices, Caterpillar’s continued sales will make the company complicit in human rights abuses.”

In a letter to Caterpillar’s chief executive officer and board of directors, Human Rights Watch on October 29 called on the company to cease all sales to the Israeli military of the D9, as well as parts and maintenance services, so long as the military continues to use the bulldozer to violate international human rights and humanitarian law.

Caterpillar’s CEO James Owens responded to Human Rights Watch in a letter dated November 12 by saying the company did “not have the practical ability or legal right to determine how our products are used after they are sold.” This head-in-the-sand approach ignores international standards on corporate social responsibility and the requirements of Caterpillar’s own code of conduct.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/11/22/isrlpa9711.htm
________________________________________________________

Wednesday, April 13, 2005 -- Day of Action Against Caterpillar

Stop Caterpillar from selling home-crushing bulldozers to Israel

On April 13, join groups all over the world in opposing Caterpillar sales of home-crushing bulldozers to Israel. That day, Caterpillar shareholders will meet in Chicago and will discuss a resolution on sales of bulldozers to Israel. We're calling on groups to organize local demonstrations at CAT-related locations, such as board of directors' offices or CAT dealerships, to send a strong message that cooperation in human rights abuses is unacceptable.

Over 50,000 Palestinians have been made homeless by Caterpillar bulldozers. CAT supplies equipment used by the Israeli military to destroy Palestinian homes, infrastructure, orchards, greenhouses, agricultural land filled with crops and sometimes lives, including American peace activist Rachel Corrie and Palestinian Suha Sweidan, who was nine months pregnant when she was killed in the middle of the night in a home demolition. While US taxpayers foot the bill, CAT profits from the wholesale destruction of Palestinian homes and livelihoods.

Taking what Human Rights Watch calls a "head in the sand" approach, Caterpillar officials have repeated the same line over and over again, that Caterpillar has "neither the legal right nor the ability to monitor and police individual use" of its equipment. Last year, instead of looking into the wanton destruction that their company's policies cause, the Caterpillar Board of Directors successfully urged the defeat of a shareholder resolution investigating whether Caterpillar is adhering to its own corporate code of conduct regarding sales to Israel. Caterpillar not only has the ability to monitor the use of its equipment, but after calls from human rights organizations, members of the office of the UN Commissioner on Human Rights, several religious and social justice organizations, and the victims themselves, CAT has the responsibility to investigate the ethics of selling bulldozers as weapons and profiting from human rights abuses.

http://www.catdestroyshomes.org/article.php?id=132

_______________________________________________

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
PRESS RELEASE

March 16, 2005
The Killing of Rachel Corrie
Amnesty International Urges Rice Urged to Support Independent Investigation

(Washington, DC) -- Observing the two-year anniversary of the killing of Rachel Corrie on March 16, 2003, Amnesty International USA (AIUSA) today called on Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to support an independent investigation of her death. Corrie, a US citizen, was apparently trying to stop the demolition of a Palestinian building in the Rafah refugee camp in the Gaza Strip when an Israeli army bulldozer ran her over, crushing her to death.

Amnesty International believes that investigations into Corrie's death, conducted by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), failed to resolve contradictions between the official IDF position and eyewitness testimonies. Although this year's Department of State Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel agreed, stating bluntly that "U.S. officials who have seen the IDF report found inconsistencies among the statements of the people involved in the accident and other witnesses," there is no indication that the US has sought further investigation of these inconsistencies. While the US government has assisted in the investigations into cases of US citizens killed by Palestinian armed groups, it has failed to do so in Corrie's case, raising the appearance of a double standard.

"An American citizen was killed two years ago and the US government notes the inconsistencies in the reports to date, yet it has failed to insist on a thorough, fair and impartial investigation," said Marty Rosenbluth, AIUSA's Country Specialist for Israel, the Occupied Territories and the Palestinian Authority. "Secretary Rice should demonstrate a willingness to act on her Department's conclusions by promptly supporting a new inquiry with the assistance of US law enforcement agencies"

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/israel_and_occupied_territories/document.do?id=52A4E74D1EA54C3F85256FC50077DD71


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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. As an environmentalist and alternative energy engineer
I am no fan of strip mining -- it has destroyed Appalachia. So, I would ban the sales of D-9's to mineral extractive exploiters of the land (be they Appalachian Coal exploiters or Middle Eastern oil exploiters).

PS, I had a close friend in high school who was killed when a Pennsylvania Department of Forests D9 inadvertently killed several campers on a plainly marked campsite -- the crew started some land clearing operation at first sun rise.
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. has the Pennsylvania Dept of Forests taken action to prevent recurrances?
i assure you they have... and israel did not.
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Radio_Rick Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Two pieces of credible documentary evidence for each statement
That's two pieces of credible documentary evidence that the Pennsylvania Dept of Forests taken action to prevent recurrences, and also two pieces of credible documentary evidence that post-Rachel Corrie, Israel has not taken action to prevent recurrences.
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idontwantaname Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. i call up Pennsylvania Dept of Forests monday and talk to them...
as far as rachel corrie and israeli army neglect goes... i have 2 documentaries and 1 personal account.

1. Dispatches: the Killing Zone
http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/special_reports/dispatches_killing_zone.html
Published: 19-May-2003
By: Dispatches

DVD available at: www.palestineonlinestore.com

if you do not have this film or access to it i can loan you it provided you do return it in same condition it was sent to you.

2. death in gaza
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/death_in_gaza/
Premieres Thursday, August 12th at 9:30pm ET/PT.

DVD available at: www.palestineonlinestore.com

if you do not have this film or access to it i can loan you it provided you do return it in same condition it was sent to you.

3. i was nearly run over twice and shot at more than that while "visiting" balata camp after rachels death... and was present during a military operation(i assume) where a bulldozer and 3 jeeps entered and "rearranged" accessible roads according to their preference... dumping large piles of dirt and rock... and large boulders.
i was just western privilege getting in the way...


see how easy that was.
if youd like more ill get it to you monday... but please check out those i posted above... i can email you photos of the bulldozer.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Rick....the recurrences....
Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 08:23 PM by pelsar
your under the mistaken impression that Rachels death, however tragic would in itself cause a major change in the IDF bulldozer operations. As far as i know, it hasnt (though I am not involved in those units). The operating procedures in a combat zone, which is what Rafiach is considered is that the two operators stay buttoned down, and that surviellence is done by long range camera...which existed then as well. I've watch the bulldozers after her death and many times they operate alone...which means it could easily happen again...

I hate to reiterate but, she was attempting to stop a miltary operation in a war zone....thats very different from walking palestenains to school....
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Radio_Rick Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I think you were responding to "idontwantaname"
and not to me. I have been a (US) combat engineer.

In the US military we have a lot (too many) "friendly fire deaths" - and really nothing is done. No change in operations or doctrine. I had a cousin (who was like an older brother to me) killed in a "friendly fire death" - and I was a Casualty Assistance Call Officer (notify the family) for a "friendly fire death." In a "tactical environment" "friendly fire deaths" are inevitable.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. rick......
your right - wrong response...but in light of your experience, I always find a certain amount of frustration in attempting to explain the "world of the army" to those who have never been. Its rather difficult as its a world unto its own, with its own set of rules (many of which seem to be in constant change), usually in direct contradiction to that of civilan life.

sometimes there is nothing to be done.... a human error cannot be "regulated out" or a particular incident is simply too rare to change the rules....or in this case, in the military eyes, it was she who crossed the line in terms of the "rules," hence there was nothing to change (that i am aware of).
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
31. Repost of deleted message
Inline pictures of I/P events are not allowed per forum guidelines.

Here is the body of the text w/ link to picture.

Lithos
I/P Forum Moderator
Democratic Underground

*******************************

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=88888&mesg_id=88910
Forum: Israeli/Palestinian Affairs
Subject: bulldozers in war.....
Author: pelsar
Body:
------------------------------------------------
they have a wide variety of uses within the military during combat. War consists of making and destroying obstacles that hinder or promote movement of material and soldiers.

if you think of a tank column that has to get across a wide ditch...the bulldozer is used to fill it in....clearing a mine field with its blade,.....creating ditch/berms to slow down or block off an approaching enemy.....The armored D9 wasn't brought in for house demolition. In fact it was "an after thought" as first the houses were blown up, but that was a very dangerous and uncontrolled type of destruction as pieces flew everywhere plus it required a lot of soldiers to prepare, defend and blow it up. The bulldozer is a far more controlled method.

Military operations are designed to be carried out with or without the loss of life-thats what they're all about. In the cases of the house demolition in Gaza, it was believed that their destruction was essential in the war as in Gaza next to the Egyptian border they are part of the tunnel infrastructrure... once designated to be destroyed, that is what was going to happen, no matter who attempts to stop it that said, those bulldozers with all their armor and small thick windows have very limited vision and move very slowly. I'm afraid Corrie, though perhaps brave in her beliefs, was also quite naive-she took sides in a military operation in a war zone and thats a very dangerous thing to do.

heres a picture.. quite the monster...

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/D9-idf_pic214.jpg
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-05 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
38. MARLA RUZICKA
WHY THE SILENCE ON MARLA RUZICKA?
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Perhaps
It is more appropriate to talk about Marla Ruzicka in a context that is purely her own? Or do you see a similiarity between Rachel Corrie and Marla Ruzicka that I personally fail to find?

L-
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
41. Back by popular demand;
"Alan Rickman's critically acclaimed premiere production of My Name Is Rachel Corrie, which has just completed a sell-out season in the 80-seat Royal Court Jerwood Theatre Upstairs (See News, 8 Dec 2004), will return to the theatre this autumn, this time to the larger, 395-seat Jerwood Theatre Downstairs, where it will have a limited season from 11 to 29 October 2005."

http://www.whatsonstage.com/dl/page.php?page=greenroom&story=E8821115117415

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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
43. I hope we see a feature film
;)
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