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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 12:02 AM
Original message
Anti-Israeli propaganda seeping into European schools
Edited on Wed May-25-05 12:02 AM by JohnLocke
Anti-Israeli propaganda seeping into European schools
By Herb Keinon -- Jerusalem Post
Monday, May 24, 2005

----
Three days after Israel's ambassador to Spain protested anti-Israeli propaganda in a Spanish teachers' manual, the Foreign Ministry Monday protested the inclusion of an anti-Israeli poem in a Norwegian matriculation exam.
Norwegian Ambassador Jakken Biorn Lian was called to a meeting with Deputy Director-General Rafi Shutz, who protested the inclusion of what the Foreign Ministry described as a one-sided poem about a Palestinian girl killed in Bethlehem in 2002.
The poem was presented as an example of a text dealing with a conflict, and the students were asked to analyze it using the literary techniques they had studied. This was the only political text in the test, with other poems and texts dealing with personal or family conflicts.
Attempts by Israel's ambassador last week to get the poem removed from the test failed. Last Friday Israel's ambassador to Spain protested a teachers' manual put out by the Barcelona municipality that drew parallels between the Holocaust and the security fence.
----
Read the rest here.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh my, "a one-sided poem"! Such "Anti-Israeli propaganda"!
Why can't controversy just be left out of poetry? How could anyone write a poem about, or have sympathy for "a Palestinian girl killed in Bethlehem in 2002", let alone have children study, and be tested on it?
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Let's be honest
If the poem had been about the terrorist bombing of the Israeli disco, people would be saying the same thing, just from the other side.
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. "one-sided poem" what is missing a stanza on the evils...
of homicide bombing and how she probable deserved it?

One sided poem, give me a break they could at least
reproduce the suspect poem for support in the article.

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. It was one-sided.
Without seeing the poem, and going from from the article, it only spoke about the death of the Palestinian girl. The discussion was about conflict; yet only ONE SIDE was shown (at least one can speculate). It would be no different if they were asked to to discuss conflict and the poem was about the terrorist bombing in the Israeli disco. That would also be ONE SIDED. If the poem was being discussed for merit, style, poetic issues, then no problem.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Answer this honestly.
If the poem had been written about the Israeli disco attack and this article appeared in Al-Jazera as anti-Palestinian, would you have the same opinion? From your writings here, you'd declare it Israeli propaganda.

I agree, why not discuss political systems that cause death of innocents.

Why is this foolish? I said one had to speculate from the article. I said "without reading the poem," are opinions now verboten?

It was to be dissected as a poem about conflict, not death. The poem, likely only had one perspective.

And, it is offensive that you implied I had a sickness.
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. What do you base your assumptions about the poem's
Edited on Wed May-25-05 01:13 AM by not systems
contents on?

The article?

I don't think I would care if someone published a poem about
a suicide bombing and ask students to discuss it.

It seems like a very good subject for a poem and an interesting
discussion.

In fact if you know of a poem on the subject, I would be interested
in reading it and would certainly not be up in arms demanding
that it be removed from any textbook.

Even if it was propaganda it would be as interesting for analysis
as the poem in this article was.

I didn't imply you has a sickness, I said the idea that a
poem about a dead Palestinian girl couldn't be legitimate
for use in a class apriori is a sickness.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Answer
"What do you base your assumptions about the poem's contents on? The article?"

Without seeing the poem, and going from from the article...

And, it was ONE-SIDED. I am not saying that is wrong, but it IS one-sided.

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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. The article does say...
"the students were asked to analyze it using the literary techniques they had studied."

and you said:

"If the poem was being discussed for merit, style, poetic issues, then no problem."

So I guess their should be no problem, if the article is the definitive source.

I think it is a little silly to talk more about this absent
the poem and question for context.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The real issue
The article is about anti-Semitism in schools in Europe. The reason the poem was a problem was because it "was presented as an example of a text dealing with a conflict." If it was presented as a poem 'as an example of death/loss,' then there shouldn't have been any concern.

I will agree, without the poem and the question, it is nothing more than speculation, on both our parts.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Anti-semitism or anti-Zionism? Big difference between targeting an
ethnic group in general (Jews) and a political movement (Israel being the Homeland for Jews, with elastic borders).
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. In a perfect world one can draw that line - but the world isn't perfect
Edited on Wed May-25-05 07:40 AM by Coastie for Truth
http://www.nysun.com/article/14020>



Britain has a Jewish problem. More specifically, Britain has a problem with Jews. Few Britons will admit to that, fewer still would accept the proposition, and many will doubtless be offended by it. But what other explanation is there for a country where barely a week goes by without some form of opprobrium being visited upon Jews? Whether manifested as anti-Zionism or as anti-Americanism or in classic form - exemplified by the louts who shouted hateful slurs at a ceremony on April 10 commemorating Jewish war dead in East London - in the last 12 months Britain has witnessed the full spectrum of anti-Semitism, from brutish insensitivity through to a record number of physical attacks.

Naturally, there is resistance to speaking of smashed Jewish gravestones in the same breath as an academic boycott of Israeli universities. But it is legitimate to do so, because both examples reveal an unhealthy fixation with a miniscule percentage of the British - not to mention global - population and a disproportionate emphasis on supposed Jewish misdeeds. The litany, by now, is a familiar one. Highlights include: London Mayor Ken Livingstone comparing a Jewish reporter to a Nazi concentration camp guard; Lord Ahmed hosting a lecture by a virulent anti-Semite who railed against Jewish media barons; and the resignations of Jewish members of the National Union of Students Executive Committee because of their anger and frustration at unchecked anti-Semitism on campus.

Much of this hostility is camouflaged as criticism of Israel. It is often expressed by eminently reasonable, educated people who would hotly deny the charge of anti-Semitism. For the record, Orla Guerin, the BBC reporter who was recently made a Member of the Order of the British Empire, despite overwhelming evidence of bias in her reporting from Israel, should not be accused of hating Jews. Neither should that charge be made against the actor Alan Rickman, who has brought the story of Rachel Corrie, the American activist killed in Gaza in 2003, to the London stage.

Even so, Britain's liberal milieu has yet to face up to some uncomfortable questions: are Jewish sensitivities about Israel-bashing given the same consideration as, say, Muslim concerns about associations with terrorism? Are Jews being held to a unique standard? Are these negative portrayals and abuse of the facts - particularly the canard that Israel resembles apartheid-era South Africa - fueling dislike, distrust, hatred of the Jews? To the first question, the answer is no; to the second, yes; to the third, absolutely.


<snip><<


Going on, Foxman makes the point that hostility to Jewish national aspirations, and those who identify with those aspirations, runs deep in the UK. He notes that when politicians or academics or celebrities argue not just against Israeli policy, but against Israel's very legitimacy, that increases the feelings of vulnerability among many British Jews.


    Going beyond proper questioning policy
    to questioning very legitimacy
    leads to feelings of vulnerability
    is this somehow unusual or unjustified.
    Foxman thinks not.




Of course, Brits, like liberals and progressives everywhere conflate Israel (and Zionists and ultimately and illogically and incorrectly all Jews) with (neocons and PNAC and US foreign policy and American Jews) Foxman argues that enmity toward Israel is a natural bedfellow of the anti-Americanism which is now an established feature of British political life. Foxman argues that one would have to be myopic to deny that all the talk of "neoconservative cabals" and "conspiracies" has a distinctly anti-Semitic flavor.

But there is another important factor: While Britain was spared the Holocaust that accompanied Nazi occupation, there is a misguided sense of responsibility for the Palestinians' fate, given Britain's historic role in the Middle East. (I have posted citations to William Engdahl's book "A Century Of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order" and to Sir Mark Sykes of Sykes-Picot Agreement infamy that I hesitate to refer to them again).

Those in Britain who regard the Palestinian narrative as an unassailable truth will point to the Balfour Declaration of 1917 as proof of their country's complicity in the Zionist enterprise, while totally ignoring the Sykes-Picot Agreement as methodically dissected by Engdahl.

The problem with selective history is just that, selective.


    1. Foxman correctly asks when was the White Paper of 1939 - which led the British authorities to virtually close Palestine to Jewish immigrants at a time when this escape route was never more needed - last mentioned in public debate?

    2. Foxman asks how widely known is it that Britain threatened to intervene on the side of Egypt during Israel's 1948-49 war of independence, when five Arab armies simultaneously attacked the new Jewish state?




Foxman asks, why is there such a willingness to embrace the Palestinian version of events when respected historians of the region - including Benny Morris, whose work is often cited by Palestinian sympathizers - state clearly that there was no Zionist grand plan to drive out the Arab population?

Is it somehow just remotely possible that Israel emerged in spite of, and not because of, the policies adopted by the British Foreign Office in implementing the Sykes-Picot Agreement or the British Mandate authorities in Palestine in implementing the 1939 White Paper.

While Palestinians may blame the British, as well as the Zionists, for their fate, it is indisputable that Britain's actions also cost thousands of Jewish lives. That was the tragic consequence of a policy based on the idea that Jews are different and, therefore, not deserving of their own country. As long as that idea remains in play, Britain's Jewish problem will persist.

And let me draw a crude and coarse and politically incorrect analogy - how long would a member of DU last with posting privileges if that member conflated Rev Martin Luther King Jr., Thurgood Marshall, Charles Rangel or John Conyers with Ward Connerly, or Clarence Thomas, or Condi Rice, or Bush Judicial Nominee Janice Rogers Brown?

Apology - I realize that Foxman was writing about England -- do you think the US body politic is innocent with vanity web sites (sometimes linked to or cited in IP) of Allison Weir, Paul Findley, or Swift Boat Veteran for Truth fellow traveller James Ennes?
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. I'm sorry, but i'm British and that article is a load of crap.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Regardless
Edited on Sat May-28-05 07:22 PM by Coastie for Truth
Is the Sykes-Picot Agreement in the same category? Or the White Paper of 1939? Both Sykes-Picot and the White Paper are facts - they will not go away.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I don't dispute the historical facts, i just dispute the huge leap of
implication taken from those historical facts. I also dispute strongly his sweeping assesment of British society and politics RE: anti-semitism. The spectre he identifies is simply not there.

And he anticipates my argument by saying it is of course hotly disputed. I hotly dispute it here in this post so therefore its true. Its a journalistic trick.

And, to leap across a century of history, linking a bit here with a bit there makes his article very readable and intriguing, but ultimately misleading.

Bigotry and Racism are found in all socities, and i'm not denying that it exists in Britain. Of course it does, i just think the article is cleverly exposing things that don't exist, and piecing a puzzle together by cutting the peices to fit his picture he has already decided upon.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. You can not deny that there is much egregious anti-Semitism
and that it pre-dates Israel, and political Zionism, and Herzl, and goes back to early days in Church history.

Some of it is just plain egregious and nasty - and counter productive - like the Mogon Dovid Adom issue- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=92166&mesg_id=92549
or the Arab League "tertiary boycott" - which hits individual working people - proletariats-- see, e.g., "The Economic War Against the Jews" by Walter Nelson and Terence Prittie (a little old - but it describes MY world when I completed my doctoral work).

I know where I have been, what I have seen, the battles I have fought - the battles I have lost and the battles I have won. It's not relevant - and I've quit PMing them around DU.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I'll certainly admit that yes. Europe has a shameful history concerning
the treatment of Jews. But it also has a history to be proud of in helping them.

For all the cases of persecution, there has been counter cases of humanity in the face of that persecution from non-Jews.

Talking of today, i just don't buy much of that article. In the political arena many prominent figures are Jewish, such as Jack Straw, and Michael Howard, and the reason i am optimistic is i didn't even know Jack Straw was Jewish until a couple of years ago and i'm keenly interested in politics.

I also grew up near a fairly large orthodox Jewish community, and from what i can gather, apart from the odd drunken ignorant lout, who would shout anything at anyone, the community as a whole faced nothing but kindess. I used to take their coal in for them on sabbath. In fact my Grandad was the first in the area to get a phone and used to get phone calls from Tel Aviv, and my father would have to run off to the next street to shout the name of who was wanted on the phone, which he thought fantastic. Anyway i digress.

I just thibk the article is finding things that aren't there today
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. It would help to be able to see the poem that goes with the headline.
I suppose some people might get upset that there are more poems about Indians, than Cowboys, studied in school.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. This is true.
It would be helpful to see the poem in question. I suppose some might get upset if more poems about the benefits of slavery, than the evils, were studied in schools.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
15. Anti- Israel ? In Europe ?
gee...i'm glad it hasnt turned into anti-semitism or anything.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. That would never happen in Europe. Moooooooo!!!!
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. Read more? There isn't any more
The reader is given few facts in this article. As some posters have pointed out, the article is guilty of editorializing when it calls a poem "one-sided" without providing the poem itself in order to give the reader an opportunity to judge.

Although it is not said specifically, the poem appears to be a part of the literature curriculum, not history or social studies.

The article tells the reader that this is the only political poem in the text. However, the brief article makes no mention of whether students are provided an Israeli point of view of the conflict, either in the literature curriculum from another source or in the history or social studies curriculum.

The reader is also told of a teacher's manual used in Barcelona that draws parallels between the Holocaust and the security fence. However, no context is given. The reader does not know whether those parallels are presented as facts rather than as points of discussion, or whether or not there is any Israeli point of view to balance the Palestinian point of view.

Is the reader to assume that European youngsters are given an unbalanced view of the Middle East conflict?

The brief article appears in the Jerusalem Post, a notorious piece of right wing fish wrap with a well-earned reputation of its own for a lack of journalistic balance.

Given the lack of context provided and the disreputable nature of the source of the article, it is impossible to take this seriously. That could be unfortunate; perhaps there really is a problem. Nevertheless, one would be foolish to draw any conclusions from reading a brief article such as this in the Jerusalem Post.


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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. That's right, move along, nothing to see here...
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Perhaps not "nothing", but pretty close to it
. . . and certainly nothing of substance.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. Orwellian babble.
The poem was presented as an example of a text dealing with a conflict, and the students were asked to analyze it using the literary techniques they had studied. This was the only political text in the test, with other poems and texts dealing with personal or family conflicts.

How is a dead girl "political"?
How is a poem about a dead girl "anti-Israel"?

If you actually care about Israel and its future chances it
would be best to develop a clue about the humanity of other
people.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. Fucking hell, the title is a tad overboard is it not. There are 400
million people in the EU. 700 million in the whole european continent, to say that that "Anti-Israeli PROPAGANDA is SEEPING into European schools" based on a poem in Norway and a memo in Barcelona is tabloid crap.

Misleading, innacurate and just plainly wrong.

I bet i could find more examples of anti-Liechtenstein bias if i tried. Or anti-anyone in fact. I bet there is more literature in Schools syllabus which could be construed as anti all European countries, America, and the whole of the world than ONE POEM about a palestinian girl being killed.
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