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Just watched "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime"

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11

Ignacio Upton

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Wed Aug-30-06 07:37 PM
Original message

Just watched "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688&q=everybody+has+to+learn+sometime&hl=en

To be honest, I was expecting to see another "Loose Change" (what with the whole controlled demolition and Flight 93 Cleveland swap and all) but this movie actually paints a picture of the administration that makes sense. I'm not yet sold on LIHOP, as I want to see how much of this movie's research is accurate, but overall it is a believable film, unlike that other one that claims the Pentagon was hit with a cruise missile, and uses Wikipedia and Neo-Nazi sites as sources.

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canetoad

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Wed Aug-30-06 08:02 PM
Response to Original message

1. Welcome to the dungeon Ignacio

Gird your loins, set your tinfoil beanie at a jaunty angle and haul out your asbestos underwear.

You do not need to be a conspiro-nut to ask questions. No matter what the OCTabots tell you.

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AZCat

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Wed Aug-30-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #1

3. Hah! You mentioned "tinfoil" first...

Na-na-na-na-boo-boo!

(where's the raspberry smiley?)

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canetoad

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Wed Aug-30-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #3

6. Right here

:yourock:

lol. We got a guaranteed shit-stopper. lol

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AZCat

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Wed Aug-30-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #6

8. Ahh, maybe we'll have to let this one roll on for a while...

It's still fresh and juicy. :)

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Sinti

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Wed Aug-30-06 09:17 PM
Response to Original message

2. It's asks good questions, if not all the good questions

Most, if not all, of that information can be found in the Corporate Media, and the government's own statements, congressional records from Thomas.gov, etc. Definitely research it, I can't give you a link other than perhaps google.com to start with. Then again, these are things you should find for yourself anyway. :)

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greyl

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Wed Aug-30-06 09:31 PM
Response to Original message

4. Yes, it's in a totally different league than loosechange.

Edited on Wed Aug-30-06 09:47 PM by greyl

It comes at the situation from a totally different angle, and is definitely worth checking out.
I can't say if everything in it is true, but it's believable.

edit: I haven't watched it since May 25. Skimming through it again for a few seconds, it does ask some questions that have been answered. Also, it does deal with actual quotes and news stories but occasionaly frames them in a misleading fashion. Plus, the way it cuts in clips from popular movies is a bit emotionally manipulative.
Still, there's no comparison with loosechange and still, people should keep their bullshit detector on red alert while watching it.

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Ignacio Upton

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Wed Aug-30-06 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #4

7. Is there a website where I can check the facts for that movie?

I seen sites debunking Loose Change do better research than its creators did, but I'm wondering if there are similar sites debunking Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime. I would think that this movie would have fewer factual innaccuracies (since they don't go out on a tangent and try to prove things that are bullshit, like controlled demolition) than Loose Change, for the reason that they seem to only promote LIHOP.

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greyl

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Wed Aug-30-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #7

9. I don't know, I haven't bothered to check yet.

Ya wanna race? ;)

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FogerRox

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Wed Aug-30-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #7

10. When I first saw Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime

I thought, this guy Albanese must listen to Randi Rhodes... Randi has covered most of what Albanese puts into Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime. I think Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime is suited real good for the beginner..... it does a good job of bringing the noobie into the issue. I think its for the People that would be turned off by Loose Change.

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Ignacio Upton

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Wed Aug-30-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #10

13. That's because LC is total horeshit

If they tried to make that same film for a college project, they would have gotten a failing grade, especially with their frequent use of Wikipedia as a source. And voice-morphing technology and cruise missiles? It makes more sense that Hani Hanjour at least flew that damn plane (even though he was a crappy pilot he still had enough hours of experience to know how to pilot it) than some of the crap they're talking about.

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greyl

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Wed Aug-30-06 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #7

11. I haven't found any dedicated page to it yet.

Of course, there's always an independent internet search.
Thing is, because it isn't based on such outright, blatant falsehoods like loosechange is, critical thinking and skepticism about how the info is presented becomes more important.

Maybe a debunk page would be a good project for somebody.

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Ignacio Upton

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Wed Aug-30-06 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #11

12. Well, both this movie and LC talk about the put options

But I remember reading that the 9/11 Commission said it didn't find credible evidence of market manipulation in anticipation of 9/11 (I read that on a LC debunking site.)

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pauldp

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Wed Aug-30-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #12

14. The 911 commission has no credibility.

The 911 commission didn't find credible evidence of a lot of things.
Like state sponsorship of the attacks, although the WSJ, the Times of India and others
reported on the wire transfer to Atta from Pakistani intelligence.
It's still on the times of India site.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=107432

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greyl

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Wed Aug-30-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #12

15. Yes, the put options are one myth that should be put to rest.

Edited on Wed Aug-30-06 11:48 PM by greyl

Here's a lot of credible info on that:
www.911myths.com/html/put_options.html

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mhatrw

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Thu Aug-31-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #15

21. Here's my summary of the "debunking."

Edited on Thu Aug-31-06 01:30 PM by mhatrw

1) The high volumes that were traded were not as high as some claim.

So what?

2) There may have been other reasons that the volumes were so high.

And?

3) Some people think the claims of other suspicious trades were overblown.

And?

4) Those who didn't claim the millions they made betting against the airlines did so because of their consciences. They felt bad about making money off the 9/11 tragedy.

This is the type of ridiculous speculation that passes for "debunking" throughout http://www.911myths.com .

5) There's no conclusive proof -- just claims by major media outlets -- that most of the transactions went through Banker's Trust-AB Brown where A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard (executive director at the CIA) served as Vice Chairman until 1998.

Why is this less than persuasive?

6) Nothing to see here folks.

We aren't convinced.

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greyl

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Thu Aug-31-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #21

22. Your summary is very weak and misleading.

Edited on Thu Aug-31-06 01:12 PM by greyl

Why is it necessary for you to first Quote Mine, then misrepresent(re-word so as to change their meaning) the quotes you've mined?
I'd be interested if you tried again, this time using actual quotes from 911myths.com.

Till then, your "summary" is unconvincing.

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mhatrw

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Thu Aug-31-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #22

23. That's hilarious.

Why is it necessary for you to first Quote Mine, then misrepresent(re-word so as to change their meaning) the quotes you've mined?

If you hadn't noticed, you just described the entire www.911myths.com site.

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greyl

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Thu Aug-31-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #23

26. You've changed the subject.

Edited on Thu Aug-31-06 02:18 PM by greyl

Whatever. As I said, your summary remains misleading and unconvincing.

edit: spling

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mhatrw

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Thu Aug-31-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #26

27. So what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander? n/t

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greyl

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Thu Aug-31-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #27

28. That comment is senseless.

You may recall that our conversation began with me saying: "I'd be interested if you tried again, this time using actual quotes from 911myths.com."

You have yet to do so, so it is you who has tried to change the subject. More than once.

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Bushwick Bill

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Thu Aug-31-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #21

24. Then, there's this.

I'll go with what the experts said.

"This could very well be insider trading at the worst, most horrific, most evil use you've ever seen in your entire life... This would be one of the most extraordinary coincidences in the history of mankind if it was a coincidence," said Dylan Ratigan of Bloomberg Business News, interviewed on Good Morning Texas on Sept. 20.

"I saw put-call numbers higher than I've ever seen in 10 years of following the markets, particularly the options markets,' said John Kinnucan, principal of Broadband Research, as quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle," reported the Montreal Gazette on Sept. 19. The paper also wrote, "Agence France Presse, on Sept. 22, reported, 'And Germany's Bundesbank chief, Ernst Weltke, said on the sidelines of the meeting that a report of the investigation showed "bizarre" fiscal transactions prior to the attacks that could not have been chalked up to coincidence.
"Weltke said the transactions, 'could not have been planned and carried out without a certain knowledge,' particularly heavy trading in oil and gold futures."
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/040804_condi_rice.html

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greyl

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Thu Aug-31-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #24

25. There WAS knowledge that encouraged the put options.

Immediately before 9/11 American Airlines released a string of bad news:

12:48pm 09/07/01 AMR NOTES 'POOR' ECONOMIC CONDITIONS, 'FALLING' DEMAND

12:49pm 09/07/01 AMR SAYS DEFERRING JET PURCHASES BEYOND FIRM ORDERS

12:47pm 09/07/01 AMR'S AMERICAN RETIRING 5 MORE 727 AIRCRAFT EARLY

12:48pm 09/07/01 AMR: AMERICAN TO RETIRE ENTIRE 727 FLEET BY END OF 2002

12:46pm 09/07/01 AMR SEES Q3 LOSS 'CONSIDERABLY LARGER' THAN Q2'S

12:47pm 09/07/01 AMR ANTICIPATES 'SIGNIFICANT' LOSS IN Q4

12:49pm 09/07/01 AMR SAYS CUTTING 2001-02 CAPEX BY NEARLY $1.2 BLN

12:50pm 09/07/01 AMERICAN AIR FEELS SQUEEZE OF FUEL PRICES, LABOR COSTS

1:07pm 09/07/01 AMR warns of wider losses - William Spain

2:44pm 09/07/01 Analyst: Airline Stocks Face At Least Another Bad Quarter

2:51pm 09/07/01 AMR DOWN 3.4% AT $30.08 FOLLOWING Q3 WARNING

4:04pm 09/07/01 Boeing stock rating cut over commercial growth - August Cole

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/browse_day.asp?scid=0&siteID=mktw&strYear=2001&strMonth=9&strMonthName=September&strDay=7& strDayName=Friday&nextPage=371 41.5442824074-788605255
a

Just a few quotes from the Yahoo finance boards:

GOLDMAN CUTS AMR ESTIMATES-again
by: nnyjou 09/10/01 01:31 pm
Msg: 13352 of 111136

-- B After AMR warning, Goldman again cuts '01 airline EPS estimates --

By Elaine Grant
St. Louis, Sept. 10 (BridgeNews) - Goldman Sachs analyst Glenn Engel on Monday lowered his 2001 per share estimates for Delta Air Lines Inc., American Airlines parent company AMR Corp., Northwest Airlines Corp. and United Airlines parent company UAL Corp. The cuts come just days after Engel reduced his estimates for all major airlines.
* * *
The new cuts are in reaction to a Friday warning from AMR that it expects a larger third-quarter loss than previously anticipated. Analysts had been expecting a loss of 39 cents per share for the third quarter, but AMR said it expected its loss for the quarter to be "considerably larger" than the 68-cent-per-share loss reported in the second quarter.
http://www.911myths.com/html/selling_amr.html

AMRO Analyst Ray Neidl told CBS MarketWatch said "you can expect to see further warnings from other airlines next week" (the week beginning 10/11).
"Airline Stocks face at Least Another Bad Quarter"
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/browse_day.asp?scid=0&siteID=mktw&strYear=2001&strMonth=9&strMonthName=September&strDay=7& strDayName=Friday&nextPage=371 41.6506365741-788611921

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mhatrw

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Thu Aug-31-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #25

29. So who bought all the put options?

Help us out here. Who did it?

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FoxOnTheRun

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Thu Aug-31-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #12

19. insider trading

130. Highly publicized allegations of insider trading in advance of 9/11 generally rest on reports of unusual
pre-9/11 trading activity in companies whose stock plummeted after the attacks. Some unusual trading did in fact
occur, but each such trade proved to have an innocuous explanation. For example, the volume of put options--
investments that pay off only when a stock drops in price--surged in the parent companies of United Airlines on
September 6 and American Airlines on September 10--highly suspicious trading on its face.Yet, further investiga-
tion has revealed that the trading had no connection with 9/11. A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no
conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy
that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious
trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its
subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades.These examples typify the evidence exam-
ined by the investigation.The SEC and the FBI, aided by other agencies and the securities industry, devoted enor-
mous resources to investigating this issue, including securing the cooperation of many foreign governments.These
investigators have found that the apparently suspicious consistently proved innocuous. Joseph Cella interview (Sept.
16, 2003; May 7, 2004; May 10�11, 2004); FBI briefing (Aug. 15, 2003); SEC memo, Division of Enforcement to
SEC Chair and Commissioners, "Pre-September 11, 2001 Trading Review," May 15, 2002; Ken Breen interview
(Apr. 23, 2004); Ed G. interview (Feb. 3, 2004).

From the 9/11 Commission page 516

no conceivable ties to al Qaeda = innocuous?

If the ties go the CIA than it's not important?
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_krongard.html

Lee Hamilton(chairman of the House select committee investigating the Iran-contra affair) did not investigate George H.W.Bush

Kean is a member of the NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY(NED) which many say is the private CIA

Maybe we have some kind of conflict of interest....

http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/stockputs.html
is also interesting

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mhatrw

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Thu Aug-31-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #12

20. But, of course, we can't see the results of the SEC's supposed

investigation that the 9/11 Commission used to make that determination.

All we get instead is, "Trust us. Nothing to see here."

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Sinti

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Thu Aug-31-06 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #7

17. Please take as much care regarding sources in a "debunking" site

as you would for a promoting site. You would do better to check the facts yourself.

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whistle

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Wed Aug-30-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message

5. It appears to be targeted at the up-scale suburbia niche market

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FogerRox

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Wed Aug-30-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #5

16. yup

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Bushwick Bill

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Thu Aug-31-06 07:44 AM
Response to Original message

18. New and Improved Version.

Edited on Thu Aug-31-06 07:50 AM by Bushwick Bill

The writer has indicated that he will have a new and improved version out in a few months with professional narration and more information.

9/11 Press For Truth looks to be a movie in the same vein of EGLS. The DVD will be available next week.
http://www.911pressfortruth.com/

You also might enjoy "Who Killed John O'Neill?"
http://www.whokilledjohnoneill.com/

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