Question about plane passengers

Hi all,

This has been bugging me from Day 1, and I've never seen it addressed anywhere (if I missed it in a search of the archives, please forgive)--figured I'd take it to the experts here.

I'm not ghoulish by any means, but I've always wondered why there were no children on any of the Sept. 11 flights. I was working in local TV news on that day, and that was my first thought--dear gods, how many kids were on those flights? Would I have to pick up stories about entire families with little kids being incinerated? But as far as I know, there were zero kids of any age on any of the flights.

I realize the planes weren't full, and school had just started and so it wasn't prime family vacation time, but I've often traveled on midweek cross-country flights like the ones in question on Sept. 11, and more often than not there were families traveling with toddlers and infants to visit family across the country even after the school year started.

I've always found this feeds my suspicion about who was on those flights--all of them carried only adults? I mean, these weren't commuter puddle jumpers all filled with folks going from one big east coast city to another for a day's business--I've been on those too.

Too obscure a point? Or something fishy? Flame away. I realize where I'm posting! :hi:

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm

Flight 77 notably had a National Geographic field trip aboard.

Flight 175:

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/VictimInfo.asp?ID=160

Thanks for the information! Guess my point is moot!

And you are being ghoulish.

:P

I refuse to be baited.

But, foolish specualation about whether these people were somehow not real or government agents or were put into Witness Protection Programs really are painful to the families and in poor taste.

They -were- real people with real lives and Mothers and children and they died in a terrifying and awful way.

I had truly never heard of children on the flights. And I am surprised at that, because usually the MSM would latch onto a heavy-handed sympathy-dredging line like "3,000 people dead, including XXX (number of) children..." and repeat it ad infinitum--but it never did. When I was working at the TV station on Sept. 11, I was really dreading having to deal with stories of dead children; they never came.

I wasn't questioning that there were or were not real people on the flights. I know there were. Quite a few on the flights and in the towers were from my area, including Mr. "Let's Roll". But I was starting to wonder if it was "arranged" to ensure that kids weren't on the flights. Apparently I was wrong. I am very sorry they didn't arrange it so children weren't aboard. :(

But you knew that.

Since al-Qaeda planned and carried out these attacks, I was wondering why you thought al-Qaeda could have controlled this factor.

I'm a firm believer that the U.S. government planned and carried out this attack, not a few random "dark-skinned Mooslims" with boxcutters.

And you probably already surmised my stance and are just drawing me out. And that's okay.

Pentagon No Plane.
No Planes
Dustification?

This will be a test.

:rofl:

Sorry. Ahem. Okay...

Pentagon: Nope, no plane. Missile. Suspicious of the swiftly confiscated surveillance tapes and especially the tapes released way later, showing nothing much.

No planes: No, I believe there were planes, with real people on them who died a terrible death. Don't ask me about my stance on the mystery plane in Ohio if you think I'm going to be too wackadoodle for you (because I will be).

Dustification: I've lurked on this board for years and posted once in a while, but I've been away from DU in general, so I'm a little rusty--if "dustification" means the pulverization of the WTC, then yes, I believe there were explosive charges that helped it along. And you should know that when the latest news about McVeigh having governmental help with his bombing, and someone in the news article questioned what the government could possibly gain from helping, my first response was "Practice?"

Thanks for asking the questions--I appreciate having to put my beliefs into words. It's challenging.

Although exactly how and what the questions prove is never to be stated.

The speculation has been that the hijackers chose flights with relatively light loads because it would be easier to control a small number of people. There might be, as a result of that, relatively few children.

This is, of course, absolutely pure speculation and I won't try to defend it against any Woos who think the planes actually never left the ground.

is that they can't get a thorough, independent investigation to answer their questions.

Who are YOU to speak for the "families," anyway?

Stop trying to squelch discussion with it. I'll tell you what is ghoulish--that a government would CONSPIRE to kill 3000 innocent people. THAT'S ghoulish. And a lot of people suspect it and would like to know if they have something to fear from their OWN government--aside from what is ALREADY known (a known known as Rummy would have said), like the fact that we were lied into a war against a nation that DID NOTHING to us and DID NOT THREATEN US, using this GHOULISH event as an EXCUSE, which is in itself VERY ghoulish.

If there is probative evidence it should -by all means- be discussed openly.

Bullshit "questions" about whether the passengers were really on the planes or whether the hijackers' weapons were adequate or whatever, prove nothing and can never prove anything.

Such questions are simply ghoulish Conspiracy Hobbyism.

One of the plagues of the Internet Age.

There are bullshit answers, however.

I don't think it at all ghoulish to ask about the passenger lists because they do look rather "odd", given the lack of Arab names on them, and given that they were light loads yet a high number of militarily and politically connected persons on board. How strange is it that Ted Olson's wife was a passenger in the first place, and that she supposedly called him collect as well? Look at Ted Olson's background! Look at his demeanor very shortly after the event. I think it is logical and "normal" to wonder about such things.

And ...O' well.

I used to think so, until I worked for 8 years for a major county medical examiner. I learned to respect the necessity of such investigations because of what we learn from them and the "closure" that they can provide, not to mention the legal and economic justifications for doing so. Is it "ghoulish" for the 9/11 families to expect the same?

I don't recall seeing anything in the days after ther attacks emphasizing the children who were killed. That would be something I would expect the media to do.

Maybe I missed it ... does anyone remember the children being one of the media's "angles"?

stuck in my mind at the time. I remember several stories at the time.

I don't recall any features about the children who were killed, either, and part of my job was to monitor all the national feeds from ABC at the time. I'm trying to figure out how I missed that--and why the MSM didn't beat us to death with that angle (since they're usually all "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!")

http://september11victims.com

Profiles on all known or claimed deaths (24 still considered "missing"), statistical breakdowns. Just as long as you understand this is never to be used as the sole source for any claim, since it's easy to get things wrong when handling 3,000 cases.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25771




WND Exclusive DAY OF INFAMY 2001
Littlest victims largely overlooked
Untold story of the children slain by Sept. 11 terrorists
Posted: December 21, 2001
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Diana Lynne
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Too young to comprehend evil, the Pokemon fan, the Tweety Bird lover, and the toddler who believed Mickey Mouse is real were assassinated by terrorists on Sept. 11. Three months later, the story of the eight child victims remains largely untold. Ranging in age from 2 to 11, they climbed aboard two thundering jetliners high on life, as only innocent children can be. Their last moments were filled with ghastly horror.

A survivor of the World Trade Center attacks who descibed to WorldNetDaily the terror he witnessed spoke of seeing "aircraft seat parts, shoes and even a little doll" raining down from the sky. The image of the doll is a lasting reminder of the hijackers' littlest victims largely overlooked.

A search of archives of published reports more often brings up articles about the Afghan war's "innocent victims" than articles about the children "among the first to give their lives in this war on terrorism," as Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff characterizes.

Every one of the eight child victims of the Sept. 11 terror attacks was, as President Bush described it earlier this month, "the most important person on Earth to somebody." The latest Associated Press Sept. 11 victims' list names the following:

# Christine Lee Hanson, 2, Groton, Mass.
# David Brandhorst, 3, Los Angeles, Calif.
# Juliana McCourt, 4, New London, Conn.
# Bernard Brown II, 11, Washington, D.C.
# Asia Cottom, 11, Washington, D.C.
# Rodney Dickens, 11, Washington, D.C.
# Dana Falkenberg, 3, University Park, Md.
# Zoe Falkenberg, 8, University Park, Md.

(more)

At least you didn't link to it...oh, you did.

Hm. David Brandhorst, 3, was aboard Flight 175 with his adoptive father and his father's partner. I had no idea until this thread that a family so challenging to many people in America was among the victims. Makes you think...

Which was kind of the point of the article.

Bush, asked about the thousands of Iraqi children killed by the US since 2003: "puhleese, no one gives a shit about them ... "

is that none of the victims from the 9-11 victim's family group, are listed on the social security death index. I used to think that could just be a fluke, but I looked at all the deceased that I know personally, and they are all on there. I'm just talking about that group headed by Goodrich, I don't know about all of the victims. I can't remember if any of the kids were listed.
Also, what is odd, is that so many of these listed people worked for defense related industries or military. I suppose in a few years no one will think that is odd, because things are changing and becoming more militaristic after 9-11.
Also odd is that several of the places these people worked closed shop right after 9-11. One was Richard Gabriel on flight77 his wife sued the partner for closing weithout consulting her, and the other was the man with the two little girls, the wife was Whittington, who worked for Ecologic -pfft, it's gone, it was also housed in the Jesuit school.

People aren't generally listed on the SS death index unless they are receiving benefits. It isn't a comprehensive list of everyone who dies in America.

It sounds as if you are implying that these people did not exist somehow.

who died at 55 and never received benefits. I suspect that perhaps people aren't listed because their remains remain unidentified?

Whether people are listed there or not doesn't mean that they didn't die or that they didn't exist in the first place.

Perhaps these people weren't officially identified in the remains and therefore can't be listed.

http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/ssdi/index.html#reasons

One reason is that spouses/dependents may be getting death benefits. I would imagine Richard Gabriel's wife would be?

Still, it is odd about ECOlogic and Charles Falkenburg and his wife Leslie Whittington, given that:

Whittington was a specialist on the impact of taxation on families, particularly poor families.

Falkenberg, 45, who worked for the ECOlogic Corp. in Lanham, Md., worked on data-delivery systems involving oceanography, ecology and space science. He also had worked in Alaska, studying the long-term aspects of the Exxon Valdez oil spill.

Ray Simanowith, president of the firm, described Falkenberg as "the conscience of our company. Most of his work dealt with things that would make a difference.” --Robert Fresco (Newsday)

http://cf.newsday.com/911/victimsearch.cfm?id=211