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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 07:44 AM
Original message
Witih regard to Susan Lindauer ...
Edited on Tue Mar-03-09 08:15 AM by autorank
I posted the material below on Seemslikeadream's thread on my article - the Susan Lindauer interview
on 911.

Make7 suggested that I post the summary here and other materials for the general group.

Here it is. Thanks for the idea, Make7, Mike

From this link on the Seemslikeadream thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=235674&mesg_id=235921

=======================================

I've never had one article posted so many times on one day. Thanks to all of you --
]the amazing johnfunk and my very good friends Seemslikeadream and kpete.

This is just to let you know where things are in this thread.

1) Lindauer's Opinion of Judge Michael B. Mukasey (who handled her case for two years)

"135. I'll tell you exactly what her opinion of him is - very positive"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=235674&mesg_id=235914

She likes and admires him. He locked her up but let her out, spanking the prosecutor for his
attempt to force medication on Lindauer. It will be clear, if you actually read my articles,
that much was withheld from Judge Mukasey by prosecutors and her first attorney, court appointed.

2) Evidence was withheld from Mukasey on Lindauer's competence both at the initial confinement
heaing and the subsequent release hearing on Sept. 6, 2006.


"138. Evidence was withheld from Mukasey"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=235674&mesg_id=235917

The prosecution and first attorney did not present evidence from a highly qualified Maryland
Psychiatrist and two PhD level therapists in Maryland who saw Lindauer over months. All said
she had no hallucinations or delusions and struggled primarily with anxiety/trauma from her
treatment at arrest and subsequently. THAT NEVER MADE IT INTO EVIDENCE.

That information plus a recommendation AGAINST forcing medication on her from the staff at the
federal prison facility where she was confined NEVER made it into the evidence for the Sept. 6, 2006
hearing where Mukasey denied the prosecution request for forced medication and then released
Lindauer on bail.

3) My opinion of Mukasey (before he got into the A.G. slot).

"134. Empty Wheel carried the last article I wrote about Suaan Lindauer - very favorable review"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=235674&mesg_id=235913

Someone could write, "Collins was overly optimistic that Mukasey would apply his notions of
equity and help for the underdog shown in federal court to the highly politicized atmosphere of
a lawless White House and Justice Department."

4) Initial confusion on the case, initial indictment.

"139. That's an old copy. The case was changed to USA v. Lindauer because"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=235674&mesg_id=235918

Lindauer was charged along with two Iraqi nationals. They had nothing to do with each other and
Mukasey made that clear. Being in the same indictment caused people who didn't read it carefully
to think that Lindauer was in league with them. That's where the "spy" meme comes from. Nothing
could be further from the truth.

The case was taken OFF of electronic reporting and the PACER system. Electronic documents are copies
of originals that you get at Federal District Court, Southern District, Manhattan. Why? I have
no idea.

A lot of the challenges to Lindauer can be cleared up if you read these articles and simply reference
the links. It's clear when there's support for her and not.

They're all here:

The Susan Lindauer "American Cassandra" Series
(or here - Lindauer Articles and Materials



by Michael Collins

American Cassandra: Susan Lindauer’s Story Michael Collins October 17, 2007
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00266.htm

Did Justice Order Forced Psychiatric Medication Michael Collins September 12, 2008
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0809/S00157.htm

Bush Political Prisoner Gets her Day in Court Michael Collins June 11, 2008
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0806/S00141.htm

An Exclusive Interview with Bush Political Prisoner Susan Lindauer Michael Collins June 2008
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0806/S00180.htm

911 Prediction Revealed at Susan Lindauer Competency Hearing Michael Collins June 17, 2004
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0806/S00263.htm

From the People Who Brought You Judith Miller & George Bush: The NYT Covers the Susan Lindauer Hearing
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0806/S00332.htm

Did Justice Order Forced Psychiatric Medication? Michael Collins, Sept. 12, 2008.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0809/S00157.htm

American Kafka: Susan Lindauer Demands "The Trial" Michael Collins, Oct. 4, 2008
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0810/S00055.htm

Feds Drop Lindauer Charges -- Accused "Unregistered Agent" Susan Lindauer Denied Trial for Five Years Jan. 16, 2009
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0901/S00210.htm

Feds Drop Lindauer Charges -- Accused "Unregistered Agent" Susan Lindauer Denied Trial for Five Years Jan. 16, 2009
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0901/S00210.htm

Thanks again for posting this Seemslikeadream and also to kpete, and johnfunk. :hi:
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. The whole thing seems like a movie!
however this is real
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ahhhhh....back to the important stuff (*_*)
Edited on Tue Mar-03-09 01:55 PM by seemslikeadream
Enough of the second grade class room antics


who "loves" who,


who pulled who's hair


name calling


and back to chalkboard of the relevant critical facts.


Sorry for having been so naughty



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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Some questions
Autorank, you show the ability to understand what shoddy reporting is when it suits you. You've pointed out that most of the media is reporting this as a spy case when a charge of "unregistered foreign agent" is not necessarily one of espionage -- although spies are by definition unregistered foreign agents and several actual spies have been convicted of this charge. But as the Seattle Weekly points out, it is unconventional spycraft for the spy to write to her second cousin, Bush's chief of staff, and announce her ties to the Iraqi government and offer her help as a go-between.

Therefore you'll understand why I ask these questions of you after my reading of your Lindauer opus.

1. Why did you suppress vital information about Lindauer's January 2003 letter to Andy Card? You quote from the letter extensively in "American Cassandra" and even give a link to it. But you somehow avoid the thrust of the letter, which is why it was used in the case against her. Nowhere in any of your stories can I find mention of paragraphs from the letter like these:

Andy, I can still influence this situation.

Therefore, I need to ask you, one last time, what specific actions can be taken by Baghdad, so that President Bush can declare victory without going to War. What do you need? Cooperation on terrorism, including interviewing authority for the FBI? Does the U.S. want the Lukoil Contract? What else? I can get it. Just tell me.

If you call me at (number redacted by bolo), or send the Secret Service, I will come to you at any hour of the day or night. I will fly to Baghdad with 24 hours notice to deliver any message directly to that leadership, regarding any of the above suggestions or anything else you seek.


Do you deny the contacts she'd made with the Iraqi Intelligence Service? Do you deny that she operated as the FBI said she did with one of their agents posing as a Libyan intelligence agent? All of this was the basis for the charges, and the letter she wrote to Card certainly seems as if she is presenting herself as a agent of Baghdad.

2. Although only one source I can find mentioned Lindauer sticking out her tongue during her most recent hearing on mental fitness, both the "New York Times" and the "New York Sun" mention a grandiose gesture where she turned to the audience and gave an enthusiastic thumbs down when the prosecutor mentioned her receiving money from the Iraqis. You did not report this, however, though you claim to have been in the room and berate the "Times" for mentioning the tongue gesture, one you admit not being a position to have seen. Can you confirm or deny that Lindauer made this hugely inappropriate gesture at her hearing? If you can confirm this, then why did you leave it completely out of your reporting when the "Times" reported it in the same sentence as the tongue being stuck out?

3. What was the reason that both prosecution and defense waived the testimony of Kleinman at the second fitness hearing? Was it not because Kleinman had already submitted a full and complete report of his findings, one that Preska could use in her deliberations? You make a lot out of Preska giving her verdict immediately after the testimony -- from a TelePrompter, you even tell us. Yet if she'd already read Kleinman's report and heard nothing in cross-examine to change her mind, why shouldn't she proceed to the end of the case? Isn't that what they were all there for, to hear her finding?

4. What is your opinion of the story she now has about Fuisz telling her before the WTC buildings collapsed concerning the Israeli couple with the camera? I'll share mine -- I think it's ludicrous. As I explained on the other thread, the story matches no video taken of the event whatsoever, certainly none that was available to be seen before the WTC towers collapsed. What reason is there to think that this is anything but the fabrication of a delusional mind?

And isn't it similar in character to another story Lindauer has repeated concerning Fuisz, one she put into a deposition, one that lays open the Lockerbie story? Fuisz certainly does seem to be a chatty fellow, doesn't he?

5. What do you make of the other stories of her strange behavior? Her stuffing toilet paper in her mouth, her displays of agitation (scribbling "furiously on a pad, shaking her head when she disagreed with a witness and passing notes to" Shaughnessy who would walk off that day when she spoke to the press against his advice, her ideation of Mukasey as a hero -- it was these kinds of incidents that led Preska (along with other expert testimony) to conclude that Lindauer was unable to even comprehend the process by which she would be tried. Lindauer even interrupted Preska during the reading of the finding, trying to offer evidence when it was not the appropriate time. This was another display of her inability to grasp the seriousness and the very process in which she was engaged.

(Sidenote: after reading that "Motion to Reconsider", I'm surprised Shannessy wasn't disbarred. Maybe I need to read more motions, but that one stunk to high heaven. Another post.)

6. In your 19 June 2008 story, "911 Prediction Revealed at Lindauer Hearing in NYC," you talk about Kelly O'Meara, a witness called by Lindauer. As you inform us, Kelly is the author of the book Psyched Out: How Psychiatry Sells Mental Illness and Pushes Pills That Kill, a quack book attacking the psychiatry profession and one that O'Meara has no qualification for writing. Indeed, when asked for her qualifications to declare that Lindauer had no mental disorder, she said that "she could read the official diagnostic manual for mental disorders like anybody else." Do you understand that this means O'Meara is grossly unqualified to speak authoritatively on the subject of mental disorders?

7. Concerning the testimony of Parke Godfrey, do you understand that the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center was not "very similar" to the attack that occurred in 2001? Perhaps you can produce specifics of his testimony here. I don't have the trial transcripts in front of me.

8. Why is her 2003 letter's assertions of Iraqi resistance and an Al-Qaeda resurgence a "prediction" and a "prophetic plea" when you also acknowledge that "other knowledgeable observers believed" this very thing? What element of her letter makes you elevate it to this level? Do you think that it was so difficult in 2003 to make those kinds of claims?

9. In "American Cassandra," (Part 1 of a two-part series that I cannot find the second part of, even in your bibliography -- perhaps you mean it to be the next piece you wrote about a year later) you make this caveat about a third of the way through the piece:

...In this article, I present her story as she told it to me. In part two of the series, I cover her confinement at FMC Carswell, examine how the initial round of her case was handled, including Judge Mukasey's dismissive remarks about the merits of the case against her. I will also present information from individuals who support her character and knowledge of Lockerbie and Iraq and offer some speculation on motives and handling of her arrest.

What follows is neither a brief in favor of her case, nor is it a fishing expedition to generate cheap shots regarding her claims. It's simply her story.


Therefore, it could be that "American Cassandra" should simply be understood as her side of it, presented uncritically (although you reserve the right to offer speculations on motives of her antagonists), something for which Lindauer could have hired a stenographer.

However the rest of your stories on this subject don't give this same caveat and appear to treat every statement of Lindauer referred to thereafter as gospel. Will you submit a summation of what you feel are the strong points and weak points of Lindauer's side of the story, and support your arguments with your evidence and reasoning for so thinking?

10. You report several times on Judge Mukasey's denial of forced medication of Lindauer. Yet you rarely, if ever, present Mukasey's reasons for doing so.

In his 35-page order, Judge Mukasey said Ms. Lindauer suffered from "hallucinations, grandiose and persecutory delusions" and was not competent to stand trial.

He doubted the government could prove the charges against Ms. Lindauer and criticized the prosecution as excessive.

"There is no indication that Lindauer ever came close to influencing anyone or could have," he said, adding that several mental health professionals, including a psychiatrist retained by the government, had found Ms. Lindauer incompetent to stand trial.


In other words, Mukasey thought the case was as weak as Lindauer's mind. Forcing Lindauer to go through this ordeal so that the prosecution could screw up a trial on weak evidence was not in the interest of justice or humanity.

Yet you have consistently described Mukasey's ruling as you did in "Bush Political Prisoner Gets Her Day in Court":

Judge Mukasey presided over the hearing. After evaluating the evidence, he refused to order the forced administration of medication. He ordered that Lindauer be set free. The case was continued.


From your reporting, one would be hard pressed to learn that Mukasey did indeed find Lindauer unfit to stand trial to her mental disorders. Why have you consistently downplayed this aspect of Mukasey's ruling while playing up the denial of forced medication?

11. If the subject of Mukasey's ruling of Lindauer's unfitness does come up, you emphasize that evidence was withheld from Mukasey (in some cases by her own attorney!) that would have changed his verdict. You did so in the OP.

One assumes that the evidence of the Maryland psychiatrist and two Maryland PHD-level (?) therapists was presented to the court. On what basis was this evidence denied to be admitted? Whoever didn't let it in, be it Mukasey or the prosecutor or even her own attorney, what was the specific reasons given to Lindauer for not allowing that into evidence?

Did it have anything to do with the fact that Mukasey sent her to doctors that he himself had appointed to rule on Lindauer's mental condition? Wasn't it Mukasey who sent her to Carswell?

******

Personally I think this case is indeed a shameful one, a blot on the Justice Department. But that is because I've seen enough evidence to agree with two federal judges that Lindauer is mentally unfit to stand trial and that she never could have obtained the results she claimed to be able to achieve (like "full democratic reforms - free elections w/ intl. monitors, free opposition parties, free opposition newspapers, and free student organizations at Universities" -- her handwritten addition to her last letter to Andy Card).

No, the Iraqis first went fishing with her delusions to see what they could get from her connections, and then the Justice Department blew her case out of proportion to get some nice headlines, and then the quack O'Meara grabs her to push her book. Susan Lindauer's story is again and again one of exploitation of her mental illness.

Please give me some evidence and assurances that in an effort to maintain access and push this story with your byline that you are not doing the same.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. My reply
I agree with your statement: "Personally I think this case is indeed a shameful one, a blot on the Justice Department."

1. Suppressing the letter. I'm the first person to release the letter (to my knowledge) which I obtained from Lindauer. I released the entire letter and "Scoop" has it on a link.
http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/0710/LindauerToCardLetterJan2003.pdf

In fact there's a wealth of material here - Lindauer Articles & Materials that can answer some of your questions.
http://electionfraudnews.com/News/sl/links.htm

I'm the first one to release the letter, yet you accuse me of suppressing material in it. I wrote what was relevant regarding the article. It's the 11th letter over two years. She's talking to Card and others are reviewing this material. Taking the feds point of view, if this was so damaging why did they let it go on? The alternative points of view are a) Mukaksey's which is that Lindauer was no danger and couldn't be and b) others, mine included, that there was no reason to charge her in 2004 when they knew about her activities through the letters and did nothing to stop it.

2. Remarks about Lindauer's behavior at the June hearing.

I was there. I was in front of the Times reporter. I did not see what he saw and I don't believe that it took place. I think his piece was a hatchet job and I wrote about that. The NYT assigned another reporter to the next hearing. That reporter, unlike the one I criticized, contacted Lindaeur for her input, which I thought was very reasonable.

As far as your term "grandiose gesture," you were not there. She gave thumbs up. So what. It's her life on the line and a point had been made in her favor. .I categorically deny that it was a "grandiose" or "hugely inappropriate gesture." I was there. Larry Neeumeister covered the hearing leading with a headline similar to mine about 911. He did not mention hugely inappropriate gestures in his article. The Daily News was there. They didn't mention it.

The NYT Covers the Susan Lindauer Hearing. From the People Who Brought You Judith Miller
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0806/S00332.htm

3. Waiving testimony of Kleinman. They may have waived it because they thought the decision was forgone that she'd be declared competent to stand trial. Attorneys do that to move things along. Preska has to answer for her decision. If it is adopted as precedent the number of people getting competency exceptions will soar. That's why it was not published, in my opinion.

Lindauer made a transcript of Kleinman's last interview available to me on background.. It's quite remarkable in the fact that the interview was clearly not voluntary, that there was real hostility between interviewer and subject, and for other reasons. If Preska found it compelling, I'm stunned.

4. Fuisz statements.

Those are his according to Lindauer. I don't now what your argument is and can ask her about it. To assert "delusional" on her part is wrong based on limited knowledge. On the issue of who warned whom and when, I'm of the strong belief that Israel gave us their very best intelligence as soon as they got it. There's information out there that they did inform us and many others as well. It seems to me that with all these many warnings, the Bush-Cheney administration failed completely in protecting the United States. The only place blame should reside is on them.

Lindauer's response to the question included her recounting of events that day. Then she added, "In retrospect, outside the passion of that particular moment, the Israelis may have told us much more than Richard Fuisz may have known." So she's reporting on her real time reaction and then commenting on that.

5. Other stories of Lindauer's behavior. I wrote about that incident in detail in this article? You don't have to read it but this question discussed in detail.

American Kafka: Susan Lindauer Demands "The Trial" Michael Collins, Oct. 4, 2008
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0810/S00055.htm

6. June 19 story: reliance on O'Meara testimony with regard to medication. This was a 'lay witness hearing' not one on psychiatric evidence (or books about psychiatry). This is clear in the article. I reported her statement. The focus was on her testimony about Lindauer's associations over time with someone she knew well who had been associated with intel efforts. That emphasis was clear.

911 Prediction Revealed at Susan Lindauer Competency Hearing Michael Collins June 17, 2004 http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0806/S00263.htm

7. Godfrey's comments on 911. Readers can look at the report on his statements and what happened. I think it was clearly right there.

8. Her last letter referred to as a "prediction" and "prophetic plea." Others made the prediction about the resurgence of al Qaeda, they "predicted." it. They were right and so was she. The "prophetic plea" is a reflection of her letter, which is a rhetorical as well as a predictive document. She really wanted, by the tone of the letter, to convey the urgency of the situation and what would happen.

9. "Will you submit a summation of what you feel are the strong points and weak points of Lindauer's side of the story, and support your arguments with your evidence and reasoning for so thinking?"

No I won't. You can read the article as others can and draw your own conclusions.

10. "Why have you consistently downplayed this aspect of Mukasey's ruling while playing up the denial of forced medication?"

I have not downplayed it. It has a proportional place in the overall story, which is about distorted and dangerous process and abuse of power. She was confined for 7 not the maximum 4 months at the federal prison facility. She was denied a trial for over five years despite requesting one again and again. And so forth. I've included more documents than anyone who reported on the case including links to mental health information about Lindauer. See that previously mentioned link. Others could have obtained this. They didn't. They didn't even talk to Lindauer. I got the information and talked with her at length.

11. Mukasey and evidence not mentioned.

There's no indication that he saw evidence from the hearing where Lindauer was committed for evaluation. It was in direct contrast to the evidence that got her sent away. There's no evidence in the June 6, 2006 "Order an Opinion" that he'd seen the Carswell recommendation against forced medication. In fact, a Carswell psychiatrist showed up to support the use of forced medication which would lead Mukasey to assume endorsement of the request by the prosecutor. This was not the case.

I got and presented the document from Carswell, which is included at the link on "Articles & Materials."

Mukasey did not once mention a committee recommendation against forced medication. He was very meticulous about the decision and would have mentioned that to support his conclusion. That is a serious piece of information to not make it into consideration.

This case is frightening and a glimpse into what was and could no be, a society where the "trouble makers" are called mad and locked up, thereby silencing them. Any of us, any citizen, could suffer this fate.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Well I say thank you...
Autorank for your work and for sharing. :hi:
Too bad this stuff can't be discussed in GD.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. You are most welcome
The June article I wrote about the 911 prediction was posted in GD. I though I'd posted it
but it was babylonsister

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3478383

It was a report on a court case.

Also posted here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x210803

:hi:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Excellent
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. Thanks.
What a lively forum ... reminds me of ... ERD;)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Gosh, I'd hate to have someone...
who hasn't read a report dare challenge an expert on the issues covered in said report. That sort of thing never happens here. :eyes:
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Bryan Sacks Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. thanks, autorank n/t
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Welco me

Busy forum here. I'll check in more often.


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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. How sad.
Edited on Tue Mar-03-09 10:48 PM by Bolo Boffin
That mess of an answer simply won't do. So if you don't mind, wade through the cheerleaders and backslappers and try again.

1. Suppressing the letter. I'm the first person to release the letter (to my knowledge) which I obtained from Lindauer. I released the entire letter and "Scoop" has it on a link.
http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/0710/LindauerToCardLe...

In fact there's a wealth of material here - Lindauer Articles & Materials that can answer some of your questions.
http://electionfraudnews.com/News/sl/links.htm

I'm the first one to release the letter, yet you accuse me of suppressing material in it. I wrote what was relevant regarding the article. It's the 11th letter over two years. She's talking to Card and others are reviewing this material. Taking the feds point of view, if this was so damaging why did they let it go on? The alternative points of view are a) Mukaksey's which is that Lindauer was no danger and couldn't be and b) others, mine included, that there was no reason to charge her in 2004 when they knew about her activities through the letters and did nothing to stop it.


You COMPLETELY IGNORED the question here. You are deliberately sidestepping material statements by Lindauer that she could make promises in behalf of the Iraqi government. I mean, you're tantamount to admitting that you didn't bring it up because it didn't fit what you were trying to do.

2. Remarks about Lindauer's behavior at the June hearing.

I was there. I was in front of the Times reporter. I did not see what he saw and I don't believe that it took place. I think his piece was a hatchet job and I wrote about that. The NYT assigned another reporter to the next hearing. That reporter, unlike the one I criticized, contacted Lindaeur for her input, which I thought was very reasonable.

As far as your term "grandiose gesture," you were not there. She gave thumbs up. So what. It's her life on the line and a point had been made in her favor. .I categorically deny that it was a "grandiose" or "hugely inappropriate gesture." I was there. Larry Neeumeister covered the hearing leading with a headline similar to mine about 911. He did not mention hugely inappropriate gestures in his article. The Daily News was there. They didn't mention it.


OK, you say thumbs up, the Times and the Sun said thumbs down. You're outnumbered. And since you also couldn't be bothered at the time to dispute the Times reporter on the direction of the thumb, I'm going with them. And the Sun connects it not to a point in her favor, but as I said, when the prosecutor talked about her taking money from the Iraqis.

Tell me, Autorank, when is it ever appropriate to make gestures like that, thumbs up or thumbs down, during a court hearing? The answer, of course, is NEVER. Lindauer could not understand the gravity of her situation. Stupid acts like that is what played against her in the end. All the actual reporters in that room understood that. Why can't you?

And you might want to be careful about tossing the term "hatchet job" around. Glass houses...

3. Waiving testimony of Kleinman. They may have waived it because they thought the decision was forgone that she'd be declared competent to stand trial. Attorneys do that to move things along. Preska has to answer for her decision. If it is adopted as precedent the number of people getting competency exceptions will soar. That's why it was not published, in my opinion.

Lindauer made a transcript of Kleinman's last interview available to me on background.. It's quite remarkable in the fact that the interview was clearly not voluntary, that there was real hostility between interviewer and subject, and for other reasons. If Preska found it compelling, I'm stunned.


So you don't know. It's really simple to say this. Practice. "I don't know." That is going to get you out of lots of problems in your life. You're welcome.

Come back to this point when you decide to be a real investigative reporter and do some research.

4. Fuisz statements.

Those are his according to Lindauer. I don't now what your argument is and can ask her about it. To assert "delusional" on her part is wrong based on limited knowledge. On the issue of who warned whom and when, I'm of the strong belief that Israel gave us their very best intelligence as soon as they got it. There's information out there that they did inform us and many others as well. It seems to me that with all these many warnings, the Bush-Cheney administration failed completely in protecting the United States. The only place blame should reside is on them.

Lindauer's response to the question included her recounting of events that day. Then she added, "In retrospect, outside the passion of that particular moment, the Israelis may have told us much more than Richard Fuisz may have known." So she's reporting on her real time reaction and then commenting on that.


"According to Lindauer." That's the whole problem here. Do you understand what hearsay evidence is? Lindauer clearly doesn't, because that's what the bulk of her Lockerbie deposition (along with a few "shame on all of you"'s thrown in for good measure. Why isn't hearsay evidence admissible in a court of law, Autorank? Why doesn't Lindauer understand this? Guess why.

And let's stick to this issue, not whether Israel told us everything or not. The subject is Lindauer.

5. Other stories of Lindauer's behavior. I wrote about that incident in detail in this article? You don't have to read it but this question discussed in detail.

American Kafka: Susan Lindauer Demands "The Trial" Michael Collins, Oct. 4, 2008
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0810/S00055.htm


Already read it. If that's your answer, it's ludicrous trash. I expect it was mostly written by Lindauer, the same as her Motion to Recommit. Your tendency to push your articles for free advertising here is noted.

6. June 19 story: reliance on O'Meara testimony with regard to medication. This was a 'lay witness hearing' not one on psychiatric evidence (or books about psychiatry). This is clear in the article. I reported her statement. The focus was on her testimony about Lindauer's associations over time with someone she knew well who had been associated with intel efforts. That emphasis was clear.

911 Prediction Revealed at Susan Lindauer Competency Hearing Michael Collins June 17, 2004 http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0806/S00263.htm


Sheer sophistry. You reported her statement as if it were true. You made sure to spell the name of her book right, the full title and all. So we can add enabling a woomeister to your journamalistic resume. You were giving her quackery a free plug and equating her layperson opinion with qualified professionals to score some points against the real professionals in the hearing, and you know damn well that you were.

7. Godfrey's comments on 911. Readers can look at the report on his statements and what happened. I think it was clearly right there.


Again you sidestep the question. The 1993 bombing was completely different from the 2001 attack. Hiding behind your journalistic objectivity? You don't have any.

And if you have any access to the court transcripts, you don't say. So we're left to wonder what Godfrey actually said, because at this point I'd trust your word about as far as I could spit.

8. Her last letter referred to as a "prediction" and "prophetic plea." Others made the prediction about the resurgence of al Qaeda, they "predicted." it. They were right and so was she. The "prophetic plea" is a reflection of her letter, which is a rhetorical as well as a predictive document. She really wanted, by the tone of the letter, to convey the urgency of the situation and what would happen.


So you have no reason to exalt her words above that of others. Plenty of people said the same thing in 2003. Lindauer's "psychic gifts" consist of having a little knowledge of the area. So your hyping of her claims to make her more of a "target" for the evil Bush Adminstration is just silly rhetoric. That's another reason to dismiss any claim you might have to journalism.

Guess where I got the term "psychic gifts." No, go on, guess. OK, I'll tell you. Her Motion To Reconsider, where she says, "Yeah, I may have said I had psychic gifts, but the CIA didn't care as long as my information was accurate." Which means her "psychic gifts" were mentioned in court.

I didn't read about that in your reportage, Autorank. But to be honest, I didn't read that in anyone else's piece, either. But since they did report other inappropriate acts by Lindauer, one gets the notion that they were trying to be a little kind. With you, it's more like it would have spoiled the whitewash.

9. "Will you submit a summation of what you feel are the strong points and weak points of Lindauer's side of the story, and support your arguments with your evidence and reasoning for so thinking?"

No I won't. You can read the article as others can and draw your own conclusions.


And thus you cede away any claim to journalism whatsoever. THAT'S WHAT JOURNALISTS DO, AUTORANK. With that option completely trashed, I'm forced to conclude that in this area you're nothing but a mouthpiece for Lindauer. Why you're content to type out what Lindauer says and publish it under your own byline, I have no idea. At least Shaughnessy gets paid.

10. "Why have you consistently downplayed this aspect of Mukasey's ruling while playing up the denial of forced medication?"

I have not downplayed it. It has a proportional place in the overall story, which is about distorted and dangerous process and abuse of power. She was confined for 7 not the maximum 4 months at the federal prison facility. She was denied a trial for over five years despite requesting one again and again. And so forth. I've included more documents than anyone who reported on the case including links to mental health information about Lindauer. See that previously mentioned link. Others could have obtained this. They didn't. They didn't even talk to Lindauer. I got the information and talked with her at length.


Bullshit. Again and again you say just about what I quoted and move on. In other contexts you mention Mukasey's actual ruling, but only with the caveat that he didn't see evidence. Yeah, and then he became Attorney General and kept the charges against her until January 2009. You don't think Hero Mukasey would have found out about evidence in this case he hadn't seen??

A distorted and dangerous process and abuse of power this story definitely is. It would be well served by having the truth told about it, and that includes recognizing that Lindauer is mentally unstable. You aren't helping.

11. Mukasey and evidence not mentioned.

There's no indication that he saw evidence from the hearing where Lindauer was committed for evaluation. It was in direct contrast to the evidence that got her sent away. There's no evidence in the June 6, 2006 "Order an Opinion" that he'd seen the Carswell recommendation against forced medication. In fact, a Carswell psychiatrist showed up to support the use of forced medication which would lead Mukasey to assume endorsement of the request by the prosecutor. This was not the case.

I got and presented the document from Carswell, which is included at the link on "Articles & Materials."

Mukasey did not once mention a committee recommendation against forced medication. He was very meticulous about the decision and would have mentioned that to support his conclusion. That is a serious piece of information to not make it into consideration.


Again you simply sidestep the question. I put it in bold, how could you miss it? Look, here it is again: Whoever didn't let it in, be it Mukasey or the prosecutor or even her own attorney, what was the specific reasons given to Lindauer for not allowing that into evidence? How can you even pretend you tried to answer this question with all that muck? For purposes of the argument, the premise of evidence not making it into the court is granted. What were the reasons Lindauer was given that this would not be admitted?

Autorank, these questions aren't hard. Stop your sidestepping, your obfuscating, and your advertising and answer them, please.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. quit wasting autorank's time
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Are you familar with the concept of a public discussion board?
You couldn't be.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. apparently you don't
Edited on Tue Mar-03-09 10:52 PM by seemslikeadream
This is not wasting someone's time board either, I see you need a reminder. Why don't you go interview Susan yourself
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Care to try again?
Edited on Tue Mar-03-09 10:55 PM by Bolo Boffin
apparently you don't
Posted by seemslikeadream


This is not wasting someone's time board either


Let's edit that and work the seeds out.

ETA: Take Two!

15. apparently you don't

Edited on Tue Mar-03-09 09:52 PM by seemslikeadream
This is not wasting someone's time board either, I see you need a reminder. Why don't you go interview Susan yourself


mmm, still a little incoherent there in the beginning. Third time's the charm!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. How does it feel to be wasted
:rofl:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Please be useful and point me to the rule that says "NO EDITS"
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. My goodness
Comprehension isn't your strong suit tonight, is it?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. I spent a lot of time responding to you last night and tonight. We're done

We'll agree to disagree.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yep. Got your number. Bye.
You're exploiting Lindauer, and you don't even care. Run.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Not the case n/t
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Riiiiiiight. n/t
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Your loss. nt
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. Have you ever scrutinized public officials in such a manner?
Edited on Tue Mar-03-09 11:49 PM by noise
After all, they are ones claiming torture is great and there is nothing wrong with indefinite detention. They are the ones who refuse to answer questions about 9/11 over seven years later, instead abusing classification procedures to keep the information secret.

Why the double standard?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm doing it right there, noise.
What part of "blot on the Justice Department" don't you understand?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-18-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
41. Man'o'man
Bolo sure is tough on the crookedest, most lying bunch of lawyers this country has ever seen. "Blot" That simply is the most damaging and comprehensive questioning of the government almost anyone has ever seen, eh?

"Blot"

What a hero! What bravery! He's really taking that group of criminals to the woodshed, eh? And he did it right here!
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-18-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. oh man....
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-18-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. You must not be aware that there is more than one definition of the word.
1. A spot or a stain caused by a discoloring substance: a blot of paint.
2. A stain on one's character or reputation; a disgrace.

You also neglected to include bolo's word "shameful" in your quote.

Besides, where the hell did you get the idea that using tough language on the internet is akin to taking criminals to the woodshed? From the 9/11 Truth Industry maybe?
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. The OP wasn't "with regard" to those issues.
I'm sure there's an innocent reason. ;)
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Rare to see the Bush DoJ accepted as an authority, especially today
after we've seen the release of the horrible memos justifying dictatorship and the comments about dumping the first amendment. These fabricators of tyranny should only be used as resources to support
charges brought against them for attempting to overturn the United States Constitution.

Good point!
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. And yet you quote Mukasey's denial of forced medication all the time
Shall I go through your life's work and cite the times you've quoted the DOJ as authoritative?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-18-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. screenshots are your friend!
A great tool I use all the time. :hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. I don't know how you do it!
I read through that exchange above and it's very clear that all the criticism of autorank's analysis is extremely confused and illogical. To me, responding to more than one round of that would have me tearing my hair out.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. They think they bother me
Edited on Wed Mar-04-09 11:27 AM by seemslikeadream
nothing could be further from the truth, I have an ex husband :rofl:

oh and I have plenty of pratice dealing with that kind of acting up, used to be a first grade teacher
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. We do?!
Your mind-reading skills are failing you once again, slad.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. That's very amusing
You are using those "mind-reading skill" yourself
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
36. Great work, and thanks for posting!
Edited on Wed Mar-04-09 11:05 AM by HamdenRice
If you are new to the forum, I would suggest closely evaluating some of the responses and questions you get here. If the counter claims and criticisms leveld at you seem confused or based on illogical premises, please move on. Your time and reporting is too valuable to waste.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Deleted message
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