One thing we haven't considered in a "WTC controlled demo" theory

When you hire a controlled-demolition firm to destroy your building, you and they have several concerns:

* getting rid of your building
* not damaging any other structure
* not killing or injuring anyone
* creating an easy-to-clear work site

But if you are trying to create a devastating terrorist attack, concerns 2 and 3 are not concerns at all. You don't give a shit if half the glass in Manhattan gets broken--in fact, since most glass manufacturers belong to Republicans, this might be seen as a bonus. You're trying to kill a LOT of people. Concern 4 is only a minor one--everyone thought the damage was caused by terrorists, so that's what they thought they were cleaning up.

Now here's what I'm thinking: Any graduate of the Combat Engineer School at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, can drop a steel-girder bridge. I know how but I'm not putting the method here because there are freepers trolling this site who would be happy as hell to forward it to the DHS. Trust me on one thing, though: it's not hard to do. This was a steel-girder building.

Would you need fancy timing devices to do this? No, you could set up a ring main with Primacord. Once again, it's not hard. And you could initiate the sequence with some sort of seismic device set off by, oh, an airplane flying into the side of the building.

People wonder how "thousands" of men could not be seen. Once again, we're thinking in terms of a regular implosion; those guys don't want to spend months setting up a job, they want to get in and get out. Bush had eight and a half months to set this up, and he didn't need to rig the whole building. He only needed to rig a few floors. Also remember that large buildings have quite a bit of space between the ceiling and the floor above--room for HVAC ducting, room for sprinkler plumbing, room for a workman crawling around planting explosives. Plus, what does an explosives setter look like? Mmm...probably like a regular workman, and there were always workmen crawling around in those buildings. Buildings that big ALWAYS need some sort of maintenance.

Also remember that they hauled the debris off pretty much immediately after the attack. All the steel went straight to a steel mill...it's hard to look at the ends of a piece of steel once it's been turned into something else. All the concrete went to a rock crusher.

Now! The official story is that the planes hit the towers and weakened one or two floors' worth of steel, which caused the building to fall in on itself. But using explosives to shear the beams on those floors would give you the same end effect, would it not?

no?? ewww. bye bye

Also remember that they hauled the debris off pretty much immediately after the attack. All the steel went straight to a steel mill...it's hard to look at the ends of a piece of steel once it's been turned into something else. All the concrete went to a rock crusher.

Then what's all this stuff piled up at investigation site at Fresh Kills?
http://positron.jfet.org/wtc-fk/


http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/may/freshkills/
"After nearly nine months, workers have recovered tens of thousands of personal items from the site. Getting those items returned to the families of the victims remains an important challenge.

NPR’s Chris Arnold went to the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island, where police officers and FBI agents continue searching the last of the rubble as it’s brought over from the World Trade Center site.

The search has been methodical and exhaustive. The rubble is spread out and inspected twice at Ground Zero. Then it’s brought to Fresh Kills by barge and truck, where the clumps of tangled metal and concrete are broken down using heavy machinery and vibrating belts.

Teams of officers and agents watch as the rubble is sifted down to a fine ashy silt that they then rake through by hand."

first ive heard of that!

The claim that everything was destroyed immediately, or the fact that it was barged over to a holding site for months-long investigation?

never went to fresh kills. Do your homework before you come here posting your disinfo.
-----------
"Indeed, critical evidence of how the trade center collapsed may be lost already. In the immediate aftermath of the disaster, haulers began to cut up and truck pieces of the towers' 300,000 tons (272,000 tonnes) of structural steel to recycling centers because the pieces purportedly did not hold any evidence important to criminal investigators."

"According to a report in the New York Times, city officials who were focused on recovery efforts overlooked the possibility that the debris could hold clues of interest to forensic engineers. A request to the city by ASCE to study the structural steel did not reach officials UNTIL ALMOST THREE WEEKS AFTER THE COLLAPSE."

http://www.architectureweek.com/2001/1017/news_1-2.html


October 4, 2001
"Additionally, two recent bid awards were made to scrap processing firms to recycle 50,000 tons of large structural beams. Under the terms of those awards, the beams will be taken from the World Trade Center site, loaded onto river barges and sent directly to the purchasers' facilities for recycling. These two scrap processors have already offloaded 20,000 tons of structural steel beams shipped by barge directly from ground zero to their facilities."

"As of this date, there are only two legal pathways by which scrap metal moves from ground zero of the World Trade Center. First, light iron and non-ferrous materials are being sent to the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island for forensic review. After the authorities have released the materials they are transferred to a scrap processor under contract with the New York City Department of Sanitation that existed prior to September 11, 2001. Second, two contracts for 25,000 tons each of heavy steel were awarded on a bid basis on September 26, 2001. These materials are being loaded onto barges for delivery to the winning bidders."

http://www.steel.org/news/innews/pr_prnewswire10_04_01....

to the UN
as proof that Saddam was hiding
weapons of mass destruction.

Since it didn't matter how much other damage would occur, the devises didn't need much planning except for where to put them for the most effect.

Ya know, if a filing cabinet or two, or three, or twenty, all laden with explosives, were placed in the right places, it could have done the dirty deed.

Jeez, and people wonder why this site gets a bad name sometimes...

Probably where he got the theory from, but it's an interesting viewing that gets your mind thinking of other possibilities.

Especially when it's something as huge as this. Assuming for a moment that this MIHOP crap is true (I think LIHOP has some merit, but that's something different), it will be impossible to prove. Anyone who knows anything will have been silenced long ago.

All I know is this: We all watched, live on TV, as two jet planes loaded with fuel crashed into the WTC. After the initial explosion the fuel kept burning at such an extreme heat that the steel girders gave out, causing the levels above where the planes hit to collapse. All that weight coming down started a domino effect that brought down the entire structure. We all watched it happen, and that morning is permanently burned into my memory. Granted, if ever there was an administration to pull off a stunt like the original poster of this topic is suggesting, it's this one, but I think the simplest explanation for anything is usually the correct one.

the media has been manipulated by some. Take for example the Britney Spears hoax. In that case, a false 'news' story spread quite quickly. It's happened before as well. USA Today was hacked, with fake news stories being posted on the site for a few hours. In one, the hackers put up an AP story that said the 9th circuit court had ruled the Pentagon unconstitutional because of its shape.
Now, a story like that is easy to discredit and would raise a few eyebrows (wouldn't it?), but what would happen if someone went in, wasn't detected, and began manipulating the news.
What if a story appeared and spread that Pakistan had bombed India, or that Iraq had fired chemical weapons into Israel, or even that martial law had been declared in the U.S.
I imagine the damage caused would depend on how long the lie was seen as reality and if it had been an attack on multiple fronts with CNN's television and online versions hacked and changed. Or what if doctored satellite images showed up with nukes on trucks heading towards southern Iraq? Would the world suddenly jump on the bandwagon to jump Iraq?
http://www.mallasch.com/journalism/article.php?sid=269

So far, real-time video manipulation has been within the grasp only of technologically sophisticated organizations such as TV networks and the military.
<snip>
Haseltine agrees. "I'm amazed that we have not seen phony video," he says, before backpedaling a bit: "Maybe we have. Who would know?"
<snip>
"Every office you go into at the Pentagon has CNN on." And that means, he says, that a government, terrorist or advocacy group could set geopolitical events in motion on the strength of a few hours' worth of credibility achieved by distributing a snippet of well-doctored video. A government, terrorist or advocacy group could set geopolitical events in motion with a snippet of well-doctored video.
http://www.rense.com/general31/pix.htm

We actually misnamed the war on terror,
it ought to be the struggle against ideological extremists
who do not believe in free societies who happen to use terror as a weapon
to try to shake the conscience of the free world. (Laughter.)
-- Dubya.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040806-1.html

Do YOU believe
in free societies using terror as a weapon
to try to shake the conscience of the free world?
If you do NOT,
then YOU are an ideological extremist
soon to face
the wrath of the pretzeldunce.

I don't know about the rest of you,
but I have personally witnessed a rabbit coming out a hat
and I have also seen a woman sawn in half and restored to her former glory - WITHOUT SURGERY.
Why should I doubt the veracity of the man with the wand, cape and top hat?
He did it. I saw it. And you all believe that I did see it.
So how come none of us here believe in magic?

Kid_A says:
All I know is this: We all watched, live on TV, as two jet planes loaded with fuel crashed into the WTC.

I strongly suggest you take another, closer, look
at the events of September 11, 2001.

What “911 In Plane Site” accomplishes that no other video expose’ on September 11th has to date, is it exposes the viewer to a barrage of news clips from a majority of the mainstream news outlets. The official story of that day was told on live TV by reporters, policemen, firefighters, and other on-the-scene eyewitnesses, however, that footage was shown only once on live television broadcasts in the first hours of the attacks and then… it was never repeated. The stories changed, information was enigmatically omitted, and what can only be described as officially prescribed propaganda took the place of indisputable reality.
http://www.policestate21.com/

Underwriters Laboratories disputes all the official theory "experts" on this thread.

<http://www.septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/2004-11-11-ryan.php>

The article doesn't say if he sent it on UL letterhead, nor does it claim it is that company's position.

You might be right, but unless you have more elsewhere it's not enough to make your claim yet.

And that seems to happen a lot on this subject.

Simple logic, however, would intuitively argue against the symmetrical collapse of the two buildings after seemingly random impacts from airplanes. (Not to mention, even, the discreptancies in thermal physics in the claims of the official theorists and the science of metalurgy.)

What explains the collapse of WTC 4 after NO IMPACT?

What explains the complete failure of NORAD?

et al ad nauseum.

I don't get any plausible answers to these questions and many others.

But that seems to happen a lot on this subject.

Agency planned drill for plane crash last Sept. 11
Associated Press
August 22, 2002

WASHINGTON -- In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft crashed into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism -- it was to be a simulated accident.

Officials at the Chantilly, Va.-based National Reconnaissance Office had scheduled an exercise that morning in which a small corporate jet crashed into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure.

The agency is about four miles from the runways of Washington Dulles International Airport.

>snip<

"It was just an incredible coincidence that this happened to involve an aircraft crashing into our facility," Haubold said. "As soon as the real world events began, we canceled the exercise."

Terrorism was to play no role in the exercise, which had been planned for several months, he said.

Adding to the coincidence, American Airlines Flight 77 -- the Boeing 767 that was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon -- took off from Dulles at 8:10 a.m. on Sept. 11, 50 minutes before the exercise was to begin. It struck the Pentagon around 9:40 a.m., killing 64 aboard the plane and 125 on the ground.

The National Reconnaissance Office operates many of the nation's spy satellites. It draws its personnel from the military and the CIA.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, most of the 3,000 people who work at agency headquarters were sent home, save for some essential personnel, Haubold said.

An announcement for an upcoming homeland security conference in Chicago first noted the exercise.

In a promotion for speaker John Fulton, a CIA officer assigned as chief of NRO's strategic gaming division, the announcement says, "On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team ... were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building. Little did they know that the scenario would come true in a dramatic way that day."
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/cia-simulation.htm


YOU CANNOT LOOK AT THIS INFO WITHOUT SEEING THE SCAM.
http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html

There are a number of posters on this site that for whatever reason, a passionate obsession, professional duties, whatever, will not allow a rational discussion of this topic. There are any number of ideas, some far-fetched, some fairly well-reasoned, that cannot be discussed on DU. This particular topic is at the top of the list. The idea that some group of people could conspire to do harm is, for some reason, unthinkable. History be damned, any act that would involve "conspiracy" has become impossible, and any who would consider such a thing, defective. The cry of "conspiracy theory" has become sufficient to quell any discussion. And on this site, there are those who utter that cry the moment certain phrases are posted.

Just give it up.

:hi:

This will be thrown in the dungeon soon, anyway...