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Pull it...! (Oh, no! Not this again!? *Facepalm*)

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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 06:23 PM
Original message
Pull it...! (Oh, no! Not this again!? *Facepalm*)
The following post is not an effort on my part to re-hash the "pull it" debate but is rather an observation of it. Fact is, no one but Larry Silverstein knows exactly what he meant by the words he chose and he has claimed that his meaning was that he instructed the fire commander to evacuate his firefighters from the building - which I would suppose is not Silverstein's decision to begin with, but rather would be at the commander's discretion. But anyway...

I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse. --- Larry Silverstein.

I was wandering around Google's news archives doing some research and decide while I was there to search the term "pull it" for any use prior to 9/11. Not to much avail. So, I got to thinking. What is "it" in this case. "It" is the building, WTC 7, and it is WTC 7 (the building) whether we're talking about controlled demolition or firefighter evacuation. So, instead of searching the term "pull it", I searched the term "pull the building". And that did bring up some interesting stuff.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:vcB4lR4tyMIJ:www.firefightersforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php%3Fubb%3Dget_topic%3Bf%3D8%3Bt%3D001134+firefighting+glossary+of+terms+pull&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us">According to one firefighter, "pull it" is an old firefighting, pre-radio handsets, derived from an evacuation order being given in which fellow firefighters would pull on the hose hard so that the firefighters holding it at the nozzle end would know to retreat from the building. But, the same poster (OudeVanDagen) declares that "pull it" is not a CD term, "In no manner shape or form on NineEleven - or at any other time - does "pull It" have anything to do with controlled demolition." And, he's not the only one making this claim:

http://books.google.com/books?id=3C7JSfnMsbIC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=Loizeaux+pull+it&source=bl&ots=udTps2gsXU&sig=g3TwEB3mXutHmYmLDsHoslsUGlI&hl=en&ei=gTNiSsq3KMultgeSof3yDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2">Google Books - Debunking 9/11 myths By Brad Reagan



However, Stacey Loizeaux may beg to differ on the use of the term "pull" (and by extension "pull the building"):

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/kaboom/loizeaux.html">NOVA (PBS) Interview with Stacey Loizeaux:

Stacey Loizeaux, twenty-six years old, has worked for Controlled Demolition, an international explosives engineering firm, since the age of fifteen. She learned the fine art of demolition from her father, Mark Loizeaux, and her uncle, Doug Loizeaux—president and vice-president of the company. NOVA spoke with Ms. Loizeaux a few days before Christmas, 1996.

NOVA: A common misconception is that you blow buildings up. That's not really the case, is it?

Stacy Loizeaux: No. The term "implosion" was coined by my grandmother back in, I guess, the '60s. It's a more descriptive way to explain what we do than "explosion." There are a series of small explosions, but the building itself isn't erupting outward. It's actually being pulled in on top of itself. What we're really doing is removing specific support columns within the structure and then cajoling the building in one direction or another, or straight down.

...snip...

Stacy Loizeaux: Well, if I kick both your legs out from under you, you're going to fall right on your butt. If I kick one leg out from under you, you'll fall left or right. So the way we control the failure of the building is by using the delays. And, again, that varies structure to structure and depending on where we want the building to go. A lot of people, when they see a building implosion, expect it to go into its own basement, which is not always what the contractor wants. Sometimes the contractor wants to lay the building out like a tree. And, sometime, we need to bring down buildings that are actually touching other buildings.

NOVA: How do you do that?

SL: Well, you just pull it away, you peel it off. If you have room in the opposite direction, you just let the building sort of melt down in that direction and it will pull itself completely away from the building. It can be done.

...snip...

NOVA: Do you get a thrill watching a building fall?

SL: Oh sure. I mean you really don't ever lose it. Your perspective changes. When I first started traveling with my Dad at fifteen, sixteen years old, I used to be awestruck. But you sort of go from that awestruck feeling to where you understand how the structure is coming down and you're watching for certain things—counting the delays or waiting for a part of the building to kick out or waiting for it to pull forward. So it does change, but it's always a rush.


Gee, that's curious. Doesn't the book excerpt above describe Mark Loizeaux's response to this question is that the only way he can imagine the term being used is in reference to a process by where the legs of a structure are precut and attached to cables, and big machines are used to literally pull the building down to the ground? He goes on to say that that particular technique would not have been possible with WTC 7. When one looks at Stacey Loizeaux's interview, however, it would seem that her mentor had taught her a figurative expression which was a common part of Controlled Demolition, Inc.'s industry lingo. She is describing controlled explosive demolition as "pull the building".

So, is the term "pull" a controlled (and explosive) demolition term, or not? Here are some examples from Google News archives past and contemporary. Some refer to literally "pulling the building" down as with cables and others refer to "pulling the building" figuratively as with explosives:

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=KC&p_theme=kc&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EAF42D34A76ADE1&p_field_direct-0=document_id "> A delicate job of destruction Hotel tower comes down on Sunday (Explosive demolition example using the industry lingo. Have to pay for the rest of article, which I didn't do.)
$2.95 - Kansas City Star - NewsBank - Feb 15, 1996
The amount and placement of the explosives should pull the building onto itself toward its center point. To help, workers have removed support from the ...


http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-783672.html">Dunblane Gym to Be Razed (I'm assuming this is not an example of explosive demolition. Have to pay for the rest of article, which I didn't do.)
Subscription - Washington Post - HighBeam Research - Apr 5, 1996
The decision to pull the building down was reached with advice from professional staff including teachers at the school, and with consideration of the ...


http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=SJ&s_site=mercurynews&p_multi=SJ&p_theme=realcities&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB71941B52583AA&p_field_direct-0=document_id "> HOLDING ITS GROUND CREWS FAIL TO TOPPLE TEETERING S.F. APARTMENT HOUSE (Explosive demolition example using the industry lingo. Have to pay for the rest of article, which I didn't do.)
But, try as they might, demolition crews still can't pull the building down. For most of the past week, a building on Telegraph Hill that was supposed to ...


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/491411?tmpl=print&page=">Dubai’s Trade Centre Hotel is demolished with a bang (I'm assuming this is not an example of explosive demolition.)
Apr 9, 2005
This meant that the blast had to pull the building down away from the World Trade Centre, and the detonator delays used, reflected this. ...

Excerpt:
by Colin Foreman on Saturday, 09 April 2005

...snip...

A major concern when planning the blow down was the proximity of the World Trade Centre, which is only 10 m away across the main access ramp. The initial plans meant that the site would have been even more compounded by the old car park that connected onto the west of the hotel, but that was demolished before the blow down took place. This meant that the blast had to pull the building down away from the World Trade Centre, and the detonator delays used, reflected this.

A series of explosions were used instead of one big blast for two main reasons. Firstly, by having a number of smaller charges, the vibrations generated by the blast were far less than those created by one single blast using 200 kg of explosives — an important consideration given the number of buildings nearby. Secondly, by using five delays the blasts could be used to pull the building down away from the World Trade Centre. This was done over a period of 1.5 seconds moving back towards the World Trade Centre.

...snip...



http://www.thnews.com/archive/ar2001/may/top5-23.html">Demolition damages neighbors
Forrest City Times-Herald - May 23, 2001 (This is an example of non-explosive demolition but illustrates the industry lingo.)
Workers spent over two hours yesterday trying to pull the building down as onlookers ... After several attempts to pull the building were made to no avail, ...

Excerpt:

...snip...

Damage to the roof of the Abstract Company could be seen from outside the building just after workers for C.C.R. Inc. pulled on a portion of the east wall of the building located at 525 Front Street.

Workers spent over two hours yesterday trying to pull the building down as onlookers stood watching. After several attempts to pull the building were made to no avail, workers tied steel cables around the center east wall of the building and then pulled the wall down using a dump truck and bulldozer.

...snip...



http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1999/429/eg12.htm">Defining the public interest
Al-Ahram Weekly - May 13, 1999 (non-explosive demo example must reflective of the industry lingo)
They will have to pull the building down with us in it," said Nader. Attempts to postpone the eviction date until August, to allow children to complete the ...

Excerpt:

...snip...

After spending several years abroad, Nader (not that Nader), a university lecturer, came back to Egypt eager to settle down. He put his life savings into an apartment in building No 9, Abul-Mahassen Square. Shortly afterwards, he fell in love and the wedding was scheduled for 28 July. But the flat, as Nader concedes, may long be gone before that date. The entire building is scheduled to be pulled down on 15 May and the 30 families living in it evicted.

Ahmed Sherif, an engineer, said he bought an apartment on the fourth floor following his marriage in 1980 for $23,000. The papers forwarded by the owner, Mohamed Rabei Gedeir, were all in perfect order, all carrying the state stamp. Seventeen years later, the residents were informed that the man who sold them the apartments was a fraud. The true owners, Zaki Fahmi Abdel-Malek and Wagnat Barsoum Doss, had filed a lawsuit and won LE5.5 million in compensation from Gedeir. The man never paid the money and a court later ruled that the true owners have the right to evict the residents and pull the building down.

...snip...



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/23/HOGB0QJACN1.DTL&hw=craze&sn=197&sc=238">Imploding a high-rise -- it's much more than a big blast (Explosive demolition example using the industry lingo)
San Francisco Chronicle - Jun 23, 2007
... middle portion will pull the building walls inward after it. For a reinforced concrete building, the blasters may choose a grade of explosive that will ...

Excerpt:

...snip...

Often, the presence of nearby structures requires a building to be brought down in a certain direction, or even within the space of its own footprint. To accomplish this, blasters use a carefully choreographed sequence of explosions, each of them relatively small, to induce a predictable and orderly collapse. For example, in a typical high-rise implosion, the bottom center support columns will be blasted first, followed a few seconds later by the columns farther out, so that the sinking middle portion will pull the building walls inward after it. For a reinforced concrete building, the blasters may choose a grade of explosive that will pulverize the concrete but leave the reinforcing bars intact, so that the steel strands will help guide the building down in the right direction.

...snip...



http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=DN&s_site=philly&p_multi=PIDN&p_theme=realcities&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB2A46C9349F6D8&p_field_direct-0=document_id "> REFINED TECHNIQUE LEVELS SUGAR FACTORY (Explosive demolition example using the industry lingo. Have to pay for the rest of article, which I didn't do.)
$2.95 - Philadelphia Daily News - NewsBank - Nov 3, 1997
... lasted more than 13 hours as explosive charges placed by the Carney Demolition Co., ... Several subsequent attempts to pull the building down with heavy ...


http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=BN&p_theme=bn&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EAF9C4B0F3AA1F5&p_field_direct-0=document_id "> EVE OF DESTRUCTION (Explosive demolition example using the industry lingo. Have to pay for the rest of article, which I didn't do.)
$2.95 - Buffalo News - NewsBank - Oct 30, 1999
Once the explosion begins, they will help pull the building onto itself. Kelly said two types of explosives will be detonated. ...


http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=PI&s_site=philly&p_multi=PI&p_theme=realcities&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB5CEBE26AC6526&p_field_direct-0=document_id "> EXPLOSIVES FAIL TO LEVEL PLANT OOPS! A BIG BLAST FALLS A LITTLE SHORT
$2.95 - Philadelphia Inquirer - NewsBank - Sep 23, 1999
... in about 4:30 pm after nitroglycerin explosives and a hydraulic hammer and ... The last step, Loizeaux said, will be to pull the building over with an ...

Excerpt:

...snip...
The planned demolition of the distinctive white tower at the old Owens Corning production plant did not go quite as planned yesterday. The 150-foot-tall building is, at least temporarily, the "leaning tower of Barrington," as the demolition supervisor called it. The demolition crew, from Controlled Demolition Inc. of Phoenix, Md., and construction workers packed it in about 4:30 p.m. after nitroglycerin explosives and a hydraulic hammer and excavator failed to...

...snip...



http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-5691086_ITM">Phoenix, Md., Firm Demolishes Buildings in Dayton, Ohio.(Explosive and cable demolition example using the industry lingo. Have to register for the rest of article.)
Free with registration - Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News - AccessMyLibrary.com - Sep 29, 1999
... placing steel cables on certain points to pull the building in as it starts to fall, and wrapping explosives around key steel structural support columns ...



There are many more examples but that's enough to make the point that the term "pull", "pull the building", and "pull it" are correct when relevant to controlled demolitions and that the term is way more common than what is claimed by OudeVanDagen, Brad Reagan, and Mark Loizeaux. Whether Silverstein was referring to "pulling" the firefighters or it was a Freudian slip hinting at demolishing the building, we may never know. However, it seems highly coincidental to me that the term "pull" could come up as the possible reference of two different disciplines, that of firefighting and that of controlled demolitions, concerning the events of a single day and concerning the fate of the same building, all within a very small timeframe.

I suppose the side of the "pull it" issue you fall on depends on whether or not you choose to believe a man who stood to gain billions of dollars on a newly negotiated insurance policy, a policy that included a pay-off should the WTC property be the victim of a terrorist attack (as it should have after '93). If you believe him, fine. If you don't, then you have to, by extension, assume that he had foreknowledge of what was coming. The burden of proof, however, is on those who don't believe him. Personally, and without a new investigation (since the 9/11 Commission didn't bother to investigate WTC 7), I don't know what to believe about "pull it".
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KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. *facepalm*
Edited on Sat Jul-18-09 07:35 PM by KDLarsen
I was going to write a lenghty reply, but you know what, it's saturday night and I've got better things to do.

And for what it's worth, the last article you posted got it right. In terms of Controlled Demolition, to pull something generally refers to attaching heavy steel cables around the structure that needs to be demolished, and then pulling on them with heavy machinery.

ETA: Nvm, late hour of the day
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. We know what Silverstein meant
Edited on Sat Jul-18-09 08:57 PM by LARED
Fact is, no one but Larry Silverstein knows exactly what he meant by the words he chose.....

He publically stated what he meant
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. let me guess... he denied it meant something that
would get him life in prison... or death for treason?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. that was totally uncalled for. who taught you those manners? n/t
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. did you find one single example that supports your claim?
Are you seriously suggesting that, say, "The amount and placement of the explosives should pull the building onto itself toward its center point" supports your assertion that "pull it" refers to explosive demolition?
She is describing controlled explosive demolition as "pull the building".

Interesting that you should say so, since in your extensive quotation, she never actually describes anything as "pull the building." I think I found one of those among all your quotations, without a modifying preposition, and in that one it clearly referred to a physical pull.

But in fairness, you've managed to concatenate so many irrelevant uses of the word "pull" that I might have missed a relevant one.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-18-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. ...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Well, if Subdivisions is asleep...
that would explain why he has such a difficult time holding up his end of a debate.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Maybe he has necrophilia...

...or whatever that thing is where you suddenly fall asleep at random moments.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Narcolepsy...
I'm going to let the necrophilia comment pass. It's a dead issue.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Oh.... I thought "narcolepsy" is where you compulsively steal stuff...
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 07:01 PM by jberryhill

Like, the guy who stole Subdivision's stash is a narcoleptic.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. No, compulsively stealing stuff is called...
Boloepsy...like when Bolo stole my "fucking goofy" joke.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. ROFL!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Bolero is...
the female version of Bolo...or maybe it was a song popularized by "Ten". I get them mixed up.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. No no no....
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 07:35 PM by jberryhill
These are bolas:



Don't be fucking goofy.

When they hit you, they leave bruises known as "Gaucho Marks".
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I think you mean boletos...
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I'll bookmark this
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 07:17 PM by OnTheOtherHand
for ready reference in case I'm ever again tempted to engage you in serious discussion. Fool me once....

(edited for something resembling tact)
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. Pullet

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Poulet
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Pollo Loco
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Bullitt
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Pallet
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Palomino



I heard there is a thing like "cow tipping" where you line up these horses and knock them over.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Maybe when Silverstein said "pull it"....
he was talking about skeet shooting. That makes more sense than the OP.

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. You obviously took great care in presentation in your OP, and that's always appreciated.
I hope to find your care and attention devoted to worthy topics one day.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Mullet
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. Bullet
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tiny elvis Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
27. Larry Silverstein gave an interview to the History Channel in 2002
Find that interview and everything you wrote becomes unnecessary. I saw it. Find it and there will be no more doubt.
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
29. the talk before 'pull it' comment was about 7 burning
and before that was the collapse of the north tower. if they were talking about the north tower collapsing, then the WTC 7 burning, then it is only logical that they talk next about the WTC 7 collapsing, therefore Silverstein's comment was about the collapse of the WTC 7 and therefore the "it" in his "pull it" comment was referring to the building.

"Pelted by debris when the North Tower collapsed, Seven burned until late afternoon allowing occupants to evacuate to safety."
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. The context in Silverstein's statement was "loss of life".
The fire department made the decision to pull.

Fire departments do not demolish buildings.

Fire departments pull their people out of harms' way when a building is beyond help.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. You know, it's silly we should even have to explain stuff like this...
since, as you correctly pointed out, fire departments do not demolish buildings.
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. i was talking about the narrator's talk before Larry's comment
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 03:28 PM by travis80
i even posted it, so you couldn't have missed it:

"Pelted by debris when the North Tower collapsed, Seven burned until late afternoon allowing occupants to evacuate to safety."


look at the sequence of what the talk was about: North Tower collapse then Seven burning which eventually collapsed. it's obvious and logical that Larry was commenting about the WTC 7.


"The fire department made the decision to pull. Fire departments do not demolish buildings."

do you have proof an FDNY actually called Larry, or are you just talking Larry's word for it?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. What does Kevin Spacey's narration have to do with what Larry Silverstein said?
Silverstein's statement is the direct context of his words. Silverstein's own words make clear what Larry Silverstein meant, not what Kevin Spacey read in a booth after the fact!

Jesus Fucking Christ!
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. It's called documentary. Usually story lines in it.
In the segment that involved Larry's comment, the narrator -- that's a person or voice the documentary makers use to guide the story lines -- was talking about the collapse of buildings and instead of mentioning the collapse of the WTC 7, it cuts to Larry's comment before showing the WTC 7 collapsing, so logically Larry's comment was about the collapse of the WTC 7. This is really elementary. surprised you find it so difficult to understand.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. "Truther Logic"
Larry Silverstein went on TV and confessed to a horrendous crime.


Um, "truthers"...if this makes sense to you, call your local US Attorney and urge him/her to have Silverstein indicted. He/she will be listed in your local white pages.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. It would have been nice had the 9/11 Commission done that. But, since
they didn't address WTC 7, which collapse on, get this, 9/11, the opportunity to ask Larry and the fire department commander he spoke to has passed. Convenient.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Why would they be addressing WTC 7, Subdivisions?
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 09:22 PM by SDuderstadt
Was the 9/11 commission convened to address engineering issues? Hint: no.
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. more like a brain-fart on Larry's part
crook's make mistakes too.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Oh, bullshit...
He's not talking about WTC 7. And, BTW, the plural of "crook" is "crooks", not "crook's".
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. logic dictates Larry was talking about the WTC 7
and thanks for pointing out my typing mistake Spelling Cop.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Um, no it doesn't, dude...
Logic dictates that the person who made the statement knows what they meant.
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. do you mean that Larry's PR said he meant the firefighters?
do you really think they would say he was talking about the WTC 7 and thereby admit to a crime? that would not be logical.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Un-fucking-believable.
YOU think Larry admitted to a crime! You think he did it in front of a camera!

And yet admitting to a crime would "not be logical" and so you discount it later on?????

Do you care at all how illogical your posts are?
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. what's unbelievable is you think someone called firefighters "it"
and i didn't say Larry intentionally admitted to a crime. more like a Freudian slip. the guy is kinda old. slips like that are more likely to happen in older people.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. "group" of firefighters = singular, it
Group is not a person.

Got any talking points that aren't five years old?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Unless Kevin Spacey was in the room narrating when Larry Silverstein was speaking, no.
Logic does no such thing.
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. you don't know how documentaries are made, do you?
a doc usually contains many points of interest and for each point being presented, the producers show interviews, news articles, statements, etc that relate to that point being made. in the segment that contained Larry's comment, they were talking about the collapse of the WTC 7, not the firefighters. so logic dictates Larry was talking about pulling the WTC 7 and that's why he referred to building as "it."
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Yes, I do. Obviously you don't
if you think Kevin Spacey's narration could determine what Larry Silverstein meant AT ALL.
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. they were talking about the collapse of the WTC 7, not firefighters
it's really that simple. you don't call people "it." that's unnatural, not to mention exceptionally rude.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Silverstein was talking about the group of people he thought was fighting the fire at his building
"group" is singular.
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. Pull IT!!!
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 01:10 PM by vincent_vega_lives
He meant his finger.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. IT....
maybe he's talking about his Information Technology department.


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gwashington2650 Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 04:32 AM
Response to Original message
42. Nice effort
Pity some CTists won't bother listening.
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travis80 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
52. Silverstein should apologize to the FDNY
for referring them as "it." that's what debunkers say Larry was referring to, so if that's what Larry meant, he should apologize to them for that rude reference.
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