Forget 9/11. History never Lies

I have noticed people getting obsessed with 9/11 as if it's the first time that the government could have betrayed the trust of the people.

Check out this video. 6:21 onwards provides an overview of the terrorism carried out by the US government and CIA in other countries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPoltx3rSyI

What would stop them from doing the same in their own country? Please don't tell me that their intentions were noble and they wanted to spread freedom in those countries, especially the ones in which they installed a dictator in place of a democratically elected leader.

Osama is just a pawn to provide a pretext for expanding the war in the middle east. Anyway, it's official he worked for the CIA.

No.

otherwise you'd have to address his main premise-- or ignore it.

Truly the funniest thing I've ever read about President Obama. Even better than the anti-christ video I just watched. Good stuff! Keep 'em coming, Aum123!

it seems our recent presidents and pres. candidates all had CIA or other intel connections

Apparently you know the CIA's intent then?

I don't know about nobility but I do believe they intended to make the US and it's interests "safer" regardless of the unintended consequences. Expanding the cause of democracy was purely secondary to stability and national security.

Project for the New American Century

I am baffled how the politicians can take their advice from such a bunch of crooks.

So, that would mean you've read it, correct?

I certainly have.

Tell me, of the clearly laid out proposals that PNAC laid out in that paper, which are currently accomplished, which have yet to be accomplished, and what are the progress of the rest?

And can you demonstrate how 9/11 played a role in implementing any of these proposals that are either in the process of completion or are already completed?

in most countries act to protect and further the interests of the state (i.e. the permanent political apparatus).

That doesn't always coincide with furthering the interests of the citizenry.

"That doesn't always coincide with furthering the interests of the citizenry."

Just a correction:

That, more or less, always doesn't coincide with furthering the interests of the citizenry.

Plenty of agencies could say the same thing. In this country, the CIA acts mainly to protect and assist large/powerful business
interests.

proves beyond all doubt: they will make up any stupid bullshit to start a war.

that they will kill a few of the people in their own country in a heartbeat if it serves to promote their agenda

n/t

n/t

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dubious CT websites, don't you?

Do you bother to fact-check any of this stuff or do you just blindly buy what you read? You might want to research the logical fallacy known as "false certainty" because you're standing square in the middle of it as we speak, dude.

Maybe you should question how open-minded you are.

In fact, I am absolutely sure that there are many aspects of the story that I can never be completely sure of. It's exceedingly difficult to put all the broken pieces together in an event like this.

I just have my doubts about various parts of the official story. And, I just wonder how anyone can take it at face value.

I'd love to hear who that is.

However, I'd be interested in knowing if there is any part of the official story that you find suspicious or a blatant lie.

JFK removed Lyman Lemnitzer as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (the JCS drafted Operation Northwoods) over this. Also fired were then CIA director Allen W. Dulles, Deputy Director Charles P. Cabell, and Deputy Director Richard Bissell. Kennedy also sought to bring changes in the way that the CIA operated...

Funny how he wound up dead not long afterward, huh?

Do you think Bush/Cheney would reject a plan like this if it was proposed to them? I personally think they would have jumped at the chance.. but that's just purely my opinion...


How's the world treating you? :hi:


Peace,

Ghost

How's the world treating YOU?

We're all in your corner, dude. Please let us know how you're doing, pal!

P.S. I don't believe the CIA had anything to do with JFK's assassination.

Hope you're doing well, also...

:hi:

Peace,

Ghost

"P.S. I don't believe the CIA had anything to do with JFK's assassination."


Does that mean that you agree that the assassins did not include anyone with the name Oswald?

dude.

So, there's no way that you or anyone else can say for certain about who did or didn't work for CIA...directly or indirectly.
I think Oswald's employment status with U.S. intel services depends on how you define "worked" for them.

I have known several CIA employees in my life. It's really silly to claim that the CIA never acknowledges anyone works for them. You seem to believe all CIA employees work in Clandestine Services.

Here are the names of several CIA employees FROM THEIR WEBSITE.



If you're going to make categorically stupid claims, you might want to confine them to ones that aren't so easily refuted.

Oswald was a CLANDESTINE operative for intelligence services and the FBI, but there's plenty of information about his activities that can be discovered with just a little bit of the resourcefulness you've already proven you have. If you need any help finding it,
let me know. I'll be glad to be of assistance to you. His intelligence services work on behalf of the U.S. is not common knowledge
even among many people who have read about JFK's assassination.

if you have specific concrete evidence to the contrary, please provide it or else this is just more JFK assassination CT bullshit, dude.

again and again, by independent researchers as well as by investigators for various official commissions such as the Warren
Commission and the HSCA. That JFK's death was the result of a conspiracy is a fact and it makes your ridicule seem even more
childish than well-known conspiracy deniers such as Vincent Bugliosi, who spent more than 20 years writing a book which has
itself become an object of ridicule and scorn for its egregious omissions and other intellectual dishonesty (so much so that
a book-length review was necessary to correct the historical record). Gerald Posner, a CIA propagandist writer, tried to
fool the world with his book "Case Closed", in 1993. It didn't work and neither has any other conspiracy-denier's efforts for
the simple reason that the truth cannot be changed into a lie, no matter how much or for how long someone tries.

YOUR efforts as a conspiracy denier are futile to those of us who know the truth.

present it, dude...

present it. Just admit the truth: you can't refute it.

just speculation without evidence from other people who believe the same nonsense as you.

If you think you can refute any of the evidence I've presented, do so. Pretending it doesn't exist is childish.

citing a book which makes assertions without evidence is not proof. Have you ever heard of "false certainty"?

Simple question. Do you have any evidence which can be confirmed or falsified?

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could spoil your little game.

And you simply haven't been able to refute it. Your game plan doesn't seem to involve substance.

especially a CT book, hardly makes it true. According to all the JFK assassination CT books, somewhere just shy of a hundred people are the actual assassain. Did you, in any way, fact-check the book you claim is proof? Why do I doubt that you did?

said and just because you can't refute what WCommmission member Senator Russell's investigator discovered, hardly means that
the Lone Nut theory has any credibility at all. And if you want to discuss the credibility of Lone Nut Theorists/authors, be prepared
to eat a great big ol heapin helpin of CROW, daddy. Go ahead. I've got a plate waiting just for your dining pleasure.

Have you ever listened to him yammer on and on? Dude, in another few months, 46 years will have passed since the assassination. If you guys can solve it, what are you waiting for?

Serious, knowledgeable people have long known about Oswald's clandestine work on behalf of U.S. military and civilian intelligence
services. Since you either don't know much about this or about the assassination conspiracy itself, and I assume you wouldn't merely
pretend to be ignorant, though I can't be certain of that, and since you didn't even attempt to refute one thing in the article
I cited a link to, here's some more information. People interested in knowing the truth about historic events will be enriched.

"Warren Commissioner Richard Russell. Russell was the Georgia senator who suspected from the start that the Commission was a dog and pony show governed by J. Edgar Hoover and Nicolas Katzenbach. So he used people on his personal staff along with other acquaintances to conduct his own inquiry. One of the people he consulted with was Colonel Philip Corso, a retired Army Intelligence officer who had been on the staff of the National Security Council under Eisenhower. Corso did some investigating for the Commissioner and found out some interesting tidbits. He concluded that the Mannlicher-Carcano could not have performed as the official story leads us to believe. (p. 126) He also concluded that there was a Second Oswald. (ibid) Further, that Oswald had gone to Russia as part of a fake defector program being run out of the Office of Naval Intelligence. (p. 127) After doing all this inquiry he told Russell that his opinion was the assassination was a project of rogue CIA agents and anti-Castro Cubans. (ibid) Russell tended to agree with him but he said he could never get the other members of the panel to believe him.

HSCA and the appointment of Richard Sprague. The Sprague chapter is even better. It begins with his appointment as Chief Counsel

Sprague came to the conclusion that there was more of a connection between Oswald and the intelligence community "than has ever surfaced." (p. 56) Two of the areas he was interested in were Oswald in Mexico City and the puzzle of why Oswald was not debriefed by the CIA on his return from Russia.

While in the Far East, Nagell worked in Japan. He used the aliases of Joe Kramer and Robert Nolan, and the CIA has certified this. (p. 61) It was at this time and place, Japan in 1957-58, that Nagell first met Oswald. This was after Oswald was observed outside the Soviet Embassy in Tokyo. (p. 72) Curious about what he was doing there, Nagell arranged to be introduced to the young Marine under an assumed name. (ibid) Also, Nagell told the author that both he and Oswald had girlfriends at the Queen Bee, a famous nightclub in Tokyo. (p. 76) Further, Nagell raised the possibility that Oswald was involved with him and a Japanese local in an attempt to get a Soviet intelligence officer named Eroshkin to defect. (p. 73)
When Nagell left his Far East assignment in late 1959, he moved to Los Angeles, and a he got a job working for the state of California. But, he told the author, that he was still working for the CIA"

and the CIA has certified this. (p. 61)"


Would this be the same CIA that you earlier claimed never acknowledge anyone who worked for them?

The very same CIA. It's a rare admission from them, but it's an important one, because of it's evidentiary value in the conspiracy.

did you notice that?

I've also noticed that when you've been provided with evidence, you haven't been able to refute it.

hardly means I have a ''lack of knowledge about the case''. I'm just not easily duped, like you. If you want to prove your claim, you'll need to provide more than just some goofy assertions you read in a book.

come from? Bizarre web sites run by self-described "amazing" people?

They didn't resign, they were fired by Kennedy, but it was after the Bay of Pigs incident: **smacks self for going from memory instead of double-checking myself**

 

:hi:

Who is the "they" you refer to?

Why would "they" want to start wars?

* Note: I'm merely asking because I'm interested to know your views. I am definitely not saying nor do I mean to imply that
I disagree with anything you said in your post.

was all over the Internetz 5 months before 9-11 and disappeared thereafter...

They sure gave us enough hints that 9/11 was in the pipeline, didn't they. Or, would you say that Poppy was just
another Conspiracy Theorist who didn't know what he was talking about?