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Is this a conspiracy theory? Is it a misuse of circumstantial evidence?

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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 01:10 PM
Original message
Is this a conspiracy theory? Is it a misuse of circumstantial evidence?
Edited on Tue Oct-20-09 01:12 PM by Boojatta
In Buenos Aires, 100 people were killed and 250 injured by the bombing, in July of 1994, of a Jewish community center. Before the bombing, an unusually large number of Iranian couriers traveled to and from Argentina, and some stayed longer than usual in Argentina. In the days leading up to the bombing, there was a significant increase in telephone traffic between Iran and various Iranian elements in Argentina.

The above information (paraphrased, and not copied word-for-word) is from haaretz dot com.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. What evidence is there of "unusually large number of Iranian couriers"
And "significant increase in telephone traffic"? How would Ha'aretz know?

As you've presented it, this is CT.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. it sounds more like innuendo and propaganda
than an actual conspiracy theory

but what is the point of this original post?
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. If a Jewish community center in any major city on the planet Earth...
Edited on Thu Oct-22-09 09:42 AM by Boojatta
... is automatically a target from anonymous, ordinary private citizens, unassisted by foreign governments, then there are two choices:

Choice #1:
We can accept that, in order for governments to protect all of their citizens in all community centers, spying on ordinary private citizens is necessary.

Choice #2:
International law could prohibit toleration of the continued existence of a Jewish community center located near a non-Jewish daycare center, a non-Jewish hospital, a non-Jewish fire department, or any other sensitive location. It's necessary to maintain essential services and to protect vulnerable non-Jews.

If you can think of another choice, then I encourage you to post your thoughts.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Or we could accept a certain level of risk in our lives.
The same as we do when we cross the street (although that risk is higher) in exchange for our freedoms.

Your post oversimplifies (at best) the situation and creates a false dichotomy as a result.

It also comes off as fear-mongering and racist.

Even in the dungeon you are setting a new low for reasoned discussion.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Can you calculate the risk on September 10th, 2001 of losing records
Edited on Thu Oct-22-09 11:00 AM by Boojatta
stored in office space in New York City? Of the total square footage of commercial, non-retail space in New York City, what percentage was in the WTC?
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Relevance?
BTW you do understand that their are all kinds of things other than terrorist attacks that destroy paperwork stored in buildings right? Companies don't keep off site live backups because they think IT workers are fun to give money to.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. The relevance is that you advised acceptance of risk...
and compared two levels of risk without bothering to provide any evidence or reasoning, and without bothering to distinguish between different ways of crossing a street. You have, in effect, set yourself up as an authority on comparing risk levels.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Try comparing the number of people killed...
crossing the street in NYC from say 1990 to present to the number killed in terrorist attacks.
It is far from perfect but it should show you that we are talking about a difference of orders of magnitude.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. SRSLY?
You expressly asked if there were other choices besides the two you offered. Realityhack gave one.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. So seeing as you are referencing 9-11
which was clearly NOT aimed at the Jewish population can we take this as an admission that your former post regarding moving infrastructure away from Jewish buildings was completely baseless and unreasonable and thus represents blatant racism?
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. A politician in Malaysia made an allegation about how the world is ruled.
He said that the world is ruled by proxy. He spoke at a meeting of influential people from various countries.

How do you know that the people who planned the attack on the WTC didn't think that a significant number of the people who rule the world by proxy were in the WTC?
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. How do you know...
that the hospital you want to move away from a Jewish community center isn't a terrorist target itself? Oh wait we KNOW it IS a target. Guess we better move it away from itself.

You do realize that 9-11 was NOT the first attack on the WTC or the first terrorist attack on US soil right? We KNEW the WTC was a potential target. It had been targeted before. And yes on 9-10 the odds for an individual working in the WTC dying in a car accident were higher than for dying in a terrorist attack. I suggest you take a statistics course as I have a nagging feeling you don't understand the first thing about the subject.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. "I suggest you take a statistics course"
That sounds like encouragement. Do you think it's possible for me to pass? Some school administrators have a policy that in effect tells students that it's better to not try than to try but fail a course. At some schools, a course failure stays on the transcripts. A course failure can also affect the grade point average, and as a result restrict opportunities to get into some majors or minors.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I withdraw my suggestion. Seeing as it is obviously not possible...
for you to determine how to take a course or otherwise receive structured instruction at an entry college level without negatively impacting your life somehow I see no reason to expect your participation in such instruction to be of any benefit to you and I suspect it would negatively impact the learning experience of anyone else in the class. As such I can not continue to endorse a suggestion that might reduce the overall education level of the populous.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. "without negatively impacting your life"
I was speaking of a risk of negative impact. I don't see how you arrived at the conclusion that a negative outcome is either certain or too high to be acceptable.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Ah Boojatta-land where we debate the nuances of OT tangents...
started by Boojatta.

If you can't figure out how to take a stats course without RISK then you are IMO very highly likely to fail it. Given the absence of any evidence that you can grasp the simplest of logical constructs I concluded that you are in fact very likely to fail. Go ahead and take a course and prove me wrong. The worst that will happen is someone (you) ends up a little better educated.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Let's get back on topic here...
Are you willing to accept there is at least one option besides the two you listed?

Do you think we make tradeoffs between freedom and safety?
On a regular basis?
Ones you are willing to make?
Ones you don't think we should be making?

Flipping this to 'safety' from pornography we can look at a quote from 'The West Wing':
Religious Leader: When our children can go to any street corner in America and buy pornography for five dollars, don't you think that is too high a price to pay for free speech?
President Bartlet: No. On the other hand, I think that five dollars is too high a price to pay for pornography.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Why are you trying to reason with....
Boojatta?
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. A very good question.
The most likely scenario I can come up with is that I lost my F***ing mind.
I suppose it is possible that I just haven't beat up on a crazy person in a while and felt the urge.

nah. Neither of those responses are dungeon worthy...
I blame it on the full moon.

:eyes:
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. your premise is flawed
I don't understand where you are coming from
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-22-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Now you understand how we feel about...
your premises, Spooked.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-23-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I think the world may be ending.
I actually agree with Spooked!!!!
oh wait... it is about Boojatta being nuts. Never mind. The end times are canceled until further notice.
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