Robert Groden

Robert Groden is being harassed and arrested because he sells DVDs about the JFK assassination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzrTh8tUziw

Really appalling.

Why do you post crap from Alex Jones and Infowars?

I'm sure the video is really excellent.
You posting this is what is really appalling.

Reply to both above.

You are just evading the issue.

in what way did either Jones or Groden prove their claim?

Have you ever heard of "begging the question"? Duh.

Again, why do you post crap from Jones/Infowars/PrisonPlanet?

"And, for almost nine hours on June 13, Groden sat in Lew Sterrett after DPD arrested him for selling his magazine JFK The Case for Conspiracy at Dealey Plaza without a permit -- even though the city does not offer permits to sell books, DVDs or magazines at Dealey Plaza. Groden was eventually charged with a Class C misdemeanor and released.

Today, he filed a federal suit against the city, claiming, among other things, DPD violated his First Amendment rights and falsely imprisoned him."

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2010/06/robert_groden_files_federal_su.php

Pay attention. I didn't say Groden is lying. I said neither he nor Jones proved their claim. Do you understand the difference?

Tell me something. If I post something in which someone makes a self-referential claim, do you just automatically believe it?? If you don't, that's an unbelievable double standard.

P.S. in the opening paragraph of the Dallas Observer article for which you pasted a link, it says clearly that the DPD was cracking down on ALL vendors in Dealer Plaza without proper permits. How is that singling out Groden?

that you´ve been harrassed and arrested for no good reason, then I don´t take it for granted that you´re full of it.

I have a strong opinion about that kind of thing, that that kind of thing should not be accepted.

And my feeling is that what Robert Groden has been going through, is behaviour from the Dallas Police that shouldn´t be accepted.

he was in violation of the law, dude.

and 80 have been dismissed. Ya think it's harassment?

"Mr. Groden has previously requested but has been denied a permit by the City on the stated grounds that there are no such permits. In fact, as (Assistant City Attorney Jackie Middlebrooks) acknowledged on June 18, no one has ever been issued a permit by the City to sell books, newspapers, or DVDs in Dealey Plaza. The effect of this Catch-22 established by the City is to effectively prevent the sale at the site of the assassination of President Kennedy of any publications that offer evidence of a conspiracy behind the assassination."

You'd think the DPD would have better things to do....

CT vendors in Dealey Plaza? I have. Sorry, they can peddle their crap elsewhere.

What city doesn't regulate where people can sell stuff?

Every city regulates where newspaper boxes can be set. EH?

sends police to Dealy Plaza to tell a man he needs an unobtainable, non-existent permit to sell his merchandise, arrests him for a Class "C" misdemeanor, incarcerates him for 8-1/2 hours, seizes his merchandise and refuses to give it back?

Groden has and continues to comply with all city requirements. The city of Dallas should give him a permit or tell him what he has to do to get one.

It might be okay with you to let the police treat law-abiding citizens that way but I say it's wrong.


However, Groden, who goes down to Dealy Plaza every weekend, has now some publicity concerning his merchandise. I hope it spurs people to go down there in solidarity to see him. Sometimes tactics meant to intimidate backfire.

You don't seem to understand that it is perfectly legitimate for a city to ban vendors in particular areas.

Like any other vendor, he can get a vendor permit to sell things where that is permitted, but if the city does not issue vendor permits for Dealey Plaza, then he does not have some sort of "right" to sell stuff in Dealey Plaza. Neither does anyone else.

If you go to, say, Times Square in NYC, you'll run into the same exact thing, and police are regularly chasing street vendors out of there too. Like Times Square in NYC, Dealey Plaza is something of a tourist attraction in Dallas, and the city has every right to determine whether to allow or not allow vendors there.

He is NOT complying with all city requirements if he is engaging in vending in an area in which the city does not permit vending.

His lawyer said: "Unless the City appeals, that's the end of the criminal case, and the basis for the Municipal Court's ruling indicates that no future charges, arrests, or prosecutions of Groden should occur."

The judge found that Section 50-156 of Dallas City Code "Vendors on Public Property" "It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person selling, distributing, or offering for sale services or goods:" (8) "is selling, distributing, or offering for sale only printed matter, including, but not limited to, newspapers and magazines, and the selling, distributing, or offering for sale is not being conducted from machines or other structures on public property."

The State "proffered no legal authority to support the proposition that the application of Section 50-156 is improper." Under Section 32-10 the prohibition to sell merchandise applies in a area "under the control of a park board" and is "predicated upon the ability of an individual to obtain" a permit. But "no process or procedure is in place for obtaining a permit." "The Court has been presented with no authority indicating Dealy Plaza is a public park." If Section 32-11 of city code applies the Promulgation and Posting of Rules applies. No park regulations are posted.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2010/12/six_months_after_grodens_arres.php

Gary Mack is ridiculous ----

so is the TSBD/6th Museum!!

Good for Groden that he keeps trying to speak to the public in Dealey Plaza --

and also good to know that those who right wingers who pulled this off are still

frightened of those like Groden and others!

The story has basically been known since 24 hours after the assassination --

it took a lot of private investigators who were dedicated and able to bring the

story to the American public. And grateful to them all!!

Thanks for the link -- I also watched the Oswald daughters -- intelligent and

beautiful young women -- and always admired Marina Oswald for the way she carried

this burden thrust upon her.


:)

Btw, Groden has a very interesting book of photos -- in color -- of the JFK assassination -

often in libraries ... that is, if Homeland Security isn't confiscating them!!


Wow!!

"Near the end of his 9-17-09 "Black Op Radio" audio interview, (...), ROBERT GRODEN, stated that “several years ago” he had interviewed a woman ( who recently passed-on ) that worked as a secretary in the Texas School Book Depository on 11-22-63 . . . . According to this woman, on 11-22-63 LEE OSWALD had just come to her in her Depository second floor office that was located across from the employees second floor lunchroom and he asked her for the correct coin change for his dollar bill so that he could buy a soda from the soda machine located in that same second floor lunchroom (OSWALD had also, specifically, asked to receive no pennies) . . . . This woman made detailed statements to GRODEN that very shortly before and and during when they heard the assassination shotS (plural) start, LEE OSWALD was standing together with this woman in her office on the second floor of the Depository. While together, OSWALD and the woman, then, wondered aloud what the shots were (they thought, as did many of the Dealey Plaza kill zone witnesses, that the loud noises were just car backfires or firecrackers). After the shots and her giving him the correct coins change, OSWALD then walked out of this woman’s office and went into the lunchroom (where within 75 to 90 seconds of the shots, he soon had his first encounter with Dallas police motorcycle officer and Presidential escortman, MARRION L. BAKER and OSWALD’s supervisor, ROY S. TRULY in that same second floor lunchroom)… GRODEN claimed that shortly after the assassination, this woman had detailed her coin change encounter wirh LEE OSWALD during the shots to the F.B.I. investigators, but, the F.B.I. then told this woman to keep her mouth shut, and, she did. (this woman had made GRODEN promise not to detail her encounter with OSWALD during the shots until after the woman passed-on, and GRODEN honored her request)… GRODEN stated that this woman‘s name and her encounter will be detailed in his coming book, “JFK: Absolute Proof"."

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/3-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html

( In the Alex Jones interview two days ago, Groden said he hoped to have the money needed for the printing of the book within a couple of months. )

what was the woman's name?

debunks this in his book.

just wondering what her name was...

Groden claims she did not want to be identified until after her death. In other words, Groden can just make up shit without fear of contradiction. I mean, seriously, if you could prove Oswald didn't kill JFK, would you take that to your grave?

or family members, would you tell sdud?

"...GRODEN stated that this woman‘s name and her encounter will be detailed in his coming book "

her death. Do you not see the problem with that?

But I will still be curious to see what he writes about this.

And I will also be curious to see the photos that Alex Jones tells about 3:30 out in this clip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acd6-3yo5ko&feature=watch_response

Groden says he has been investigating JFK's murder for 47 years. Can you offer any real reason that he could not have solved it by now?

it's a riddle wrapped inside an enigma surrounded by a mystery.
not to mention, all the witnesses and accomplices have been killed off.
out of the thousands involved in this assassination, how many are left to talk?
the PTB is all-powerful.

TPTB overlooked Groden. You would think they'd want to silence one of their most vocal critics.

maybe they like Groden.
I spent an evening drinking with him and a few other notable "JFK researchers" once and he seemed like a really nice guy.
yes, that's right CTers.
I hung out with Groden.

I hang with Elvis. :rofl:

jealous?
met quite a few "researchers".
of course, that was back when I fell for the bullshit they were peddling.
how's Elvis these days?
:rofl:

cointelpro.

The PTB make no mistakes.

A new book, about another important witness :

"On November 22, 1963, a young Victoria Elizabeth Adams stood behind a fourth-floor window of the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas. She watched as John Kennedy was murdered in the streets below. Then, with a co-worker in tow, she ran down the back stairs of the building in order to get outside and determine what had happened.
At that precise moment, her life changed forever.
Unbeknownst to her but certainly in the forefront of the government's thinking was the fact that if Miss Adams was telling the truth, then she had descended those stairs at the same time Lee Oswald would have been on them as he made his escape from the sixth floor sniper's nest.
Yet Miss Adams saw no one.
And even though the stairs were old, wooden, and very creaky under any weight, she heard no one on them.
Her story presented obvious problems for the Warren Commission’s conclusion that Oswald was the sole assassin. When Miss Adams was called to testify before a Commission attorney, she was quickly discredited, humiliated, and eventually branded a liar. Behind closed doors she pleaded with the government to conduct time tests of her actions if she wasn’t believed. She begged the government to question her co-workers, particularly the woman who had accompanied her down the stairs, if she was felt to have been inaccurate.
But she was ignored."

http://www.amazon.com/Girl-Stairs-Missing-Assassination-ebook/dp/B004GNFU9S

The author, Barry Ernest, on Black Op Radio
Show #518
Original airdate: March 17, 2011:

http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2011.html

"Oswald's Alibi"

http://www.giljesus.com/jfk/alibi.htm

"Under interrogation, Oswald insisted he had followed his workmates down to eat . He said he ate a snack in the first- floor lunchroom alone but that he remembered two black employees walking through the room while he was there. Oswald believed one of them was a colleague known as "Junior" and said he would recognize the other man although he could not recall his name. He did say the second man was "short." There were two rooms in the Book Depository where workers had lunch, the "domino room" on the first floor and the lunchroom proper on the second floor. There was indeed a worker named "Junior" Jarman, and he spent his lunch break largely in the company of another black man called Harold Norman. Norman, who was indeed "short," said later he ate in the domino room between 12:00 and 12:15 p.m., and indeed he thought "there was someone else in there," though he couldn't remember who. At about 12:15, Jarman walked over to the domino room, and together the two black men left the building for a few minutes. Between 12:20 and 12:25--just before the assassination--they strolled through the first floor once more, on the way upstairs to watch the motorcade from a window. If Oswald was not indeed on the first floor at some stage, he demonstrated almost psychic powers by describing two men--out of a staff of 75--who were actually there."

http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/wherewasoswald.htm

"Dallas to appeal dismissal of charge against Dealey Plaza vendor.

Almost as doggedly as Robert Groden has pursued his theory that the Kennedy assassination was a conspiracy and cover-up, the city of Dallas is pursuing him.

(...)

After a municipal judge dismissed the charge against Groden last month, the city filed notice Wednesday of its plans to appeal the case and try to have it sent back for trial."

http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/city/dallas/stories/010711dnmetconspiracy.4da498.html


"What gets me is the extreme Vladimir Putin-style in-your-face we're-not-even-embarrassed-by-it thug-ocratic stupidity of the way the city has gone after him."

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2011/01/by_chasing_robert_groden_from.php

"Seizing Mr. Groden's property from the outset was not appropriate or necessary, but not releasing Mr. Groden's property to him after taking photographs of it, after holding the property for seven months and counting, and even after the municipal judge ordered the case dismissed
seems to be just further evidence to support his assertion of the City's campaign to harass him unnecessarily."

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/01/kennedy-conspiracy-theorist-wa.html

One bit of truth is like a pebble hitting a mirror -- it shatters it --

it shatters their myths and lies!

More to the point: What are your thoughts on the OP?

his problems with the city had nothing to do with JFK. The city simply doesn't want a bunch of street vendors in Daley Plaza - can't say I blame them. Now if you were to show his "persecution" extended beyond Daley Plaza then you might have something.

I am not taking on the PTB - they have no reason to suppress me. So do you think they only suppress threats? If that is the case, can you document your suppression?

For an example in the assassination of President Kennedy, the case of Joseph Adams Milteer. FBI had to send someone to find out about the right winger, secretly taped by an FBI informant outlining the assassination a few weeks before Dallas, but limited the investigation to a few questions afterward.

In the present day, a whistleblower sits in jail for alerting the authorities to rich Americans offshoring wealth in Switzerland while the people who lied America into two illegal, immoral, unnecessary and disastrous wars run free.

Don't know about suppression, but the PTB seems capable of doing everything to protect property rights and nothing to protect liberals.

the Milteer theory has been repeatedly and thoroughly debunked.

What I find fascinating about your quest is that you will summarily ignore the mountain of evidence against Oswald, yet embrace the flimsiest of evidence as proof positive that someone other than Oswald killed JFK.

Too funny.

His story was not debunked. Suppressed, certainly, but not debunked.

You should read Abraham Bolden's "The Echo from Dealey Plaza" to learn more about how the FBI and Secret Service failed in their duty. He was the first African American SS agent assigned to the White House detail. Dude.

Milteer is dead, therefore, you can make your goofy accusations without fear of contradiction. Where is the evidence that Milteer was involved in the assassination of JFK in any way? Why are you (and other conspiracists, for that matter) utterly incapable of assembling some sort of coherent narrative for that day?

And, most, importantly, why do you summarily reject the mountain of evidence against Oswald?

has there been the slightest hint that the PTB have considered you a threat for even a second?

It'd be a waste of time.

why do you think that is?

Right?

Groden is held up as proof of that. So what does it mean when the government ignores someone? If there is an active conspiracy to suppress the truth then there must be an active effort to evaluate the threat. There must also be some criteria as to when to react to that threat. So when they ignore you despite your obvious dedication to your hobby, it must mean something. What are to options? You are wrong, you have no original ideas or you are working to spread disinformation. You certainly don't believe they didn't evaluate your potential to reveal the truth, do you?

You are correct.

dedicate nearly five decades to pursuing the "truth", yet not even wind up on TPTB's radar.

Or maybe, they look at him like I look at my dog when he chases his tail.
You know, eye-rolling and a laugh.

your dogs tail-chasing makes far more sense than Octafish's antics.

which prove....um...what do they prove again?

at least your dog gets exercise from chasing its tail.

A good place to learn about it: Mary Ferrell Foundation

Others are free to be certain Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Do you think that sucks, too? Dude.

More conspiracy theory bullshit? Can you even think for yourself? Do you bother to fact-check the goofy bullshit you consume?

Actually, I know where you stand. It'd be easier for other people to see your, eh, positions. Always on top. Dude.

SDuderstadt opposes arguments that he doesn't think make sense. (Or, perhaps in your mind, SDuderstadt opposes arguments that make entirely Too Much Sense. Whatever.) How would starting a journal change that?

You know, how a world view developed.

Octafish.

Typical.

I answered. No biggie. Dude.

it's just another attempt by you to distract/deflect attention away from your smear of Ted Kennedy.

That's what little people think. Dude.

You might try applying that to your posts....dude.
:rofl:

that does make it so, dude.

You didn't ask why he had no journal, even rhetorically. You asked him to start one.

And, yes, your 'rationale' for that makes about as much sense as your 'discussion' of True Compass.

I wrote what I wrote.

nothing you have written refutes EMK's rather plain words that he accepted the findings of the Warren Commission.

Face it, dude...Ted Kennedy has posthumously shut you down.

Ouch!

There are a number of very logical reasons why he probably didn't want to make waves, the most important of which would be to protect his family. What has come to light since Nixon took office is that EMK was on Nixon's radar, and he likely learned from this experience in order to further his career. I would be much more interested in getting at the root of RFK's beliefs, the one Kennedy brother who was in a position to start a real investigation. Why did the DRE's efforts (funded by the CIA) to blame the assassination on the Cuban government fail so quickly?

You may, somehow, honestly believe that it is a matter of opinion whether that means the same thing as "That's why I ask you why you have no DU Journal." Heck, who's to say what words really mean anyway?

from the DUDE that believes every horse shit version of every incident that the state controlled media puts out!

Do you think Van der Lubbe started the Reichstag Fire all on his own too?

dude.

After all, they couldn't possibly pay attention to every American who believes

in conspiracy re JFK coup!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



And time to put you back on IGNORE --

Yes, like the other 99% of DU.
Which enables you to spray bullshit on threads without having to respond to questions or even remotely try and back up your silly claims.
IGNORE ME!!!!

Gee, I wonder why?
:eyes:

Idiots are another matter. Don't you own any Zappa albums?

there's no reason to fear goofy conspiracy theory bullshit.

You don't miss a thing. Dude.

when you show your true colors by smearing Ted Kennedy, it DOES tend to get noticed, dude.

Go over your posts and go over mine. You believe the Warren Commission, the CIA and J Edgar Hoover. I don't.

Gee. That does make it clear: My true colors aren't yours. Dude.

should I start a journal about it?
to make it official?

Keep trying, my Friend. Someday. Someday.

I wouldn't recommend anything that flatly contradicts your goofy JFK assassination conspiracy bullshit either, dude.

You are truly fighting a losing battle here.

And always stating what you wish were so, but you know isn't. It's like you want to be my little groupie. Dude.

Why don't you quote the parts of Teddy's book that support your assertions?
I can guess why you don't...

You can engage in all the personal attacks you want, but it does not disguise the fact that you're unable to refute Ted Kennedy's plain words.

I, too, wait for the day that something you write can be recommended.
I fear, however, that won't happen.
By the way, are you one of those psychic who talks to the dead?
How else to explain how you-and only you-knows Teddy Kennedy thoughts about the assassination were completely different from the ones he gave in public and in his own book?
Maybe you should read something else besides your own journal!
:rofl:

That's minder with a "D."

And, for what it's worth, there's nothing funny about the assassination of President Kennedy.

disrespecting the Kennedy family. And, you know that neither Z-man nor anyone else here thinks there's anything remotely funny about the JFK's assassination.

Just more of your smarmy tactics and false accusations, dude.

so, are you going to post the relevant excerpts from Ted Kennedy's memoir that support your assertions?
Or do we have to wait for your journal?

nowhere close to uncovering the "truth", dude?

I'm not afraid to let others see what I've found. When I'm wrong -- which has happened -- I am happy to admit it. That's why I post links and name source. You, OTOH, don't. Dude.

you'd admit that Ted Kennedy accepted the Warren Commission findings, which is just one more example out of many times where I provided either links or named the source, dude. Your having a "journal" showing how you uncritically buy more goofy conspiracy theory bullshit is not particularly impressive.

It's not even all he wrote in his memoir. You must have missed that post. Dude.

I posted his exact words in an excerpt from his memoir. Please provide whatever excerpt you have in which he recants his acceptance of the Warren Commission's findings.

Please explain how any of the pages you refer to make your "case" in any way. You've painted yourself into yet another corner, dude.

Didn't you read the book? Dude.

I excerpted in which Kennedy plainly stated his acceptance of the findings of the Warren Commission.

If you have ANYTHING that refutes it, please provide it.

:rofl:

"Dealey Plaza vendors get green light from City Council."

http://www.wfaa.com/news/business/Dealey-Plaza-vendors-get-green-light-from-City-Council--124392859.html

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

"Top priority"

Maybe not :)