When did Al Queda know 9-11 was a LIHOP operation?

And then the the follow up question of how they would react to being compromised. I think they knew very quickly they were compromised and have ceased American operations until a whole new network can be built.

:shrug:

Those are kinds of proof.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

Why has the identities of those perpetrating this insider trading, not been made public? There are many articles about this , mostly based on a leak by the German intelligence agency, here's the first one on Google.


PROFITS OF DEATH -- INSIDER TRADING AND 9-11

by

Tom Flocco - Edited by Michael C. Ruppert 


<© Copyright 2001. From The Wilderness Publications, www.copvcia.com. All Rights Reserved. May be recopied, distributed or posted on the worldwide web for non-profit purposes only.>


FTW, December 6, 2001 -- On October 9th, FTW broke a story on insider trading connected to the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center that sparked worldwide controversy. In that story we reported how the Israeli Herzliyya Institute for Counterterrorism had documented that unknown individuals -- with accurate foreknowledge of the attacks -- had purchased an obvious and unusually large number of "put" options on United and American Airlines shortly before the attacks.


 Additional companies hit hard by the insider trading included Axa Re(insurance) and Munich Re as well as American investment giants Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley.


 Put options are essentially a bet that a stock's price will fall abruptly. The seller, having entered into a time-specific contract with a buyer, does not need to own the actual shares at the time the contract is purchased. Therefore, if a holder of the put option has a contract to sell a stock such as American Airlines for (e.g.) $100 a share on a Friday and the stock falls to $50 on Wednesday, they can purchase the stock, sell it on Friday and double their money. The person on the other end of the contract (the call) has an obligation to buy the shares at the agreed upon price. The bank handling the transaction as a broker is the only entity knowing the identities of both parties.


FTW also revealed that the A.B. Brown (Alex Brown) investment arm of the banking giant Deutschebank/A.B. Brown had been headed until 1998 by the man who is now the Executive Director of the Central Intelligence Agency - A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard. In fact, Krongard is but one name in a long history of CIA interconnections to stock trading and the world's financial markets. We also discussed, in detail, the evidence indicating that the CIA and other intelligence agencies monitor stock trading in real time for the purpose of identifying potential attacks of any nature that might damage the U.S. economy.

more<http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/12_06_01_death_profits_pt1.html>

an Italian suppository . . .

of these things had been investigated in the LEAST.

Who did make those "put options"? The electronic and paper trail should be evident enough if anyone in tyhe Empire had the guts and balls to investigate.

(HINT: When you find such a person, let me know)

I imagine people like you pooh-poohed Wategate as a "conspiracy theory" until dedicated individuals of the kinds that are seldom seen in Imperial Amerika, kept investigating, kept digging, in spite of the arrogant dismissals of people like yourslef...until they found out the "conspiracy theory" was truth.

Consider how long Enron got away with their robbery of BILLIONS of dollars and their ruthless manipulation of the Energy Market.

Had they not gone bankrupt, you would probably still be sneering at the conspiracy theorists who dared assert that Enron purposefully and with full knowledge drove up energy prices for monetary gain.

Yep, your reflex against "conspiracy theories" is so knee-jerk and virulent (why, I wonder, considering so many of them have been true, from the Tuskeegee Experiments and MK-Ultra, to Watergate and Enron), I have no doubt, absolutely none, that's exactly what you would be doing.

Pretty sad, because crimes simply do not get exposed if their very existance is pooh-poohed prior to investigation.

What happened on 9/11? I don't and we will NEVER know. If we still lived in a Free Country I might be a little more confident that there were no "conspiracies", but of course we live in Amerika and so suspicion rises inversely to the transparency and freedom of the society involved.

"Conspiracy Theorists" were almost always RIGHT when speaking of Full-Blown Totalitarian Societies such as Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. The freer a nation is, the better it's press, the better it's system of Checks and Balances, the less likely "conspiracies" are able to remain covert.

but we live in Amerika, a nation rapidly transitioning from the Free World to the Thrid World.

I would ask you to try to understand these things, and cut some people some slack because of this "Soviet Dilemma".

But your knee is jerking and I have no doubt you have an arrogant dismissal already prepared for me.

I asked two simple and highly relevant questions.

investigated in a Totalitarian Nation like Amerika.

What are people left with, except "samizdat" (Google that term if you are unaware of it) and speculation.

As I said above "conspiracy theorists" in Free Nations and "conspiracy theorists" in Totalitarian Nations (as Amerika is becoming swiftly) are two different beings with two different rationales.

Further, as I also said above, that "conspiracy theorists" in Totalitarian Nations without a Free Press and without a system of Checks and Balances, need to be cut more slack because the investigational mechanisms that MIGHT expose the crfiminal activity of THE PARTY are eroded, atrophied, or nonexistant.

You can keep asking your questions, but until a Free and Independant Investigation occurs (something impossible in Amerika at this time) , there is no person or authority who can answer "we looked into it and found no proof".

because, in a Totalitarian Nation like Amerika, no one willl dare look into it for fear of THE PARTY and THE LEADER.

I'm not some ignorant fool, and for you to continue to personally attack me for asking two simple questions is a gross breach of common courtesy.

Goodbye!

:grr:

Though I could see how you might have taken offense to the characterization of "people like you" in the first post, although how else am I supposed to describe People Who Allow Criomes to Pass Uninvestigated Because They Are So Convinced That a "Conspiracy Theory" Could Never Have Happened That The Crime is Never Investigated.

I apologize and will try to use the other apellation in the future in place of "people like you".

How did I insult you in the second post?

(I never said and do not believe you are an 'ignorant fool'...denial is one of the most powerful human emotions and has little to do with intelligence or ignorance)

"totalitarian" nation I ever hear of. Let's see, Chomsky and Zinn are not arrested and tortured. Instead, their books are on best-seller lists and they are paid huge salaries for speaking engagements; Critical publications like Z, Counter-Punch and Nation are not shut down and their publishers killed, instead they are openly advertising on the internet and happily growing in influence and popularity; Every day hundreds, if not thousands of people on DU are openly calling our Prez some very nasty names, and noone is breaking down their doors and hauling them away in the dead of night.
Yep, sounds just like Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy, Stalin's Russia and Mao's China. "Totalitarian" to the core.

Your ridiculous comment reminds me of a speech I once heard from the post war German novelist Gunter Gras. He was invited to speak to a group in Berkeley (Cal) in the early 70s. Before it was his turn to speak, we listened to several other speakers. We heard speech after speech denouncing 'Amerika' as fascist, nazi, the police were gestapo, etc. Pretty much the usual stuff for that day and venue. I naturally agreed with all the speakers. Gras was and is a man firmly on the left. But this was too much. You see, he had actually LIVED in Hitler's Germany. He said: "You know, I have recently become aware of a strange weather phenonemon. The 'dark night of fascism' is always descending on America, but it only seems to actually LAND in Europe." He went on: "The 'Gestapo' must be very slow here. Where I come from, they would have broken those doors down (he pointed to the doors of the auditorium) hours ago."

Imagine if we had "pooh-poohed" that Moon Landing Hoax "Imperial Amerika" tried to pull over our eyes! :dunce:

Anything more concrete than BushCo's word? :shrug:

In a videotaped statement, bin Laden (allegedly) did take credit for it in late October, right before the GE.

:)

Whatever happened to that White Paper Reichsminister of State Von Powelltrop promised us?

:shrug:

but the official version doesn't hold water too well. For starters, it's illuminating to visit Daniel Hopsicker's website and read about what he found down in Florida investigating the alleged hijackers who learned to fly there:
www.madcowprod.com

Alleged lead hijacker Mohammed Atta had a stripper girlfriend, snorted coke, was a party animal, was involved in drugs trafficking, dressed like a pimp, loved pork chops and the Beastie Boys and spoke Hebrew. All of which somehow makes for a strange Muslim fundamentalist. And now key witnesses have FBI agents knocking on their doors every week warning them not to speak. And a whole lot of other strange things.

Then there's the wargames (simulating plane hijackings with live planes and false radar blips as the attacks unfolded, plus fighter jets being diverted to Canada/Alaska), all the ignored detailed warnings, the quashed investigations, the obstructionism from the WH, the compromised Kean commission, the hectic meeting activity between the alleged paymaster, Pakistani ISI chief Lt. Gen. Mahmud Ahmad, and many of the top dignitaries in Washington in the weeks prior to the attacks, the lack of a real investigation, FBI admitting that they couldn't connect it to Bin Laden and so on.

Then there's Sibel Edmonds and several other whistleblowers whose stories contradict the official version and point towards some kind of government involvement.

So no proofs of who did it or why, but something smells fishy about it, to say the least.

and they'll immediately say "Bin Laden did it" or "Saddam did it". Average Americans are so freaking naive. They don't question anything the government says.

(Bolding and italics mine)

A September 21 story by the Israeli Herzliyya International Policy Institute for Counterterrorism, entitled “Black Tuesday: The World’s Largest Insider Trading Scam?” documented the following trades connected to the September 11 attacks:

- Between September 6 and 7, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw purchases of 4,744 put options on United Airlines, but only 396 call options… Assuming that 4,000 of the options were bought by people with advance knowledge of the imminent attacks, these “insiders” would have profited by almost $5 million.

- On September 10, 4,516 put options on American Airlines were bought on the Chicago exchange, compared to only 748 calls. Again, there was no news at that point to justify this imbalance;… Again, assuming that 4,000 of these options trades represent “insiders,” they would represent a gain of about $4 million.

-

- No similar trading in other airlines occurred on the Chicago exchange in the days immediately preceding Black Tuesday.

- Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co., which occupied 22 floors of the World Trade Center, saw 2,157 of its October $45 put options bought in the three trading days before Black Tuesday; this compares to an average of 27 contracts per day before September 6. Morgan Stanley’s share price fell from $48.90 to $42.50 in the aftermath of the attacks. Assuming that 2,000 of these options contracts were bought based upon knowledge of the approaching attacks, their purchasers could have profited by at least $1.2 million. Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw 12,215 October $45 put options bought in the four trading days before the attacks; the previous average volume in those shares had been 252 contracts per day . When trading resumed, Merrill’s shares fell from $46.88 to $41.50; assuming that 11,000 option contracts were bought by “insiders,” their profit would have been about $5.5 million.

- European regulators are examining trades in Germany’s Munich Re, Switzerland’s Swiss Re, and AXA of France, all major reinsurers with exposure to the Black Tuesday disaster.

On September 29, 2001 – in a vital story that has gone unnoticed by the major media – the San Francisco Chronicle reported, “Investors have yet to collect more than $2.5 million in profits they made trading options in the stock of United Airlines before the Sept. 11, terrorist attacks, according to a source familiar with the trades and market data.
“The uncollected money raises suspicions that the investors – whose identities and nationalities have not been made public – had advance knowledge of the strikes.” They don’t dare show up now. The suspension of trading for four days after the attacks made it impossible to cash-out quickly and claim the prize before investigators started looking.


link:
http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html

Unless you are saying that AQ is ours. The possibility of which I don't entirely discount.

I'm not saying how it was passed, whether it was just a "tip" or actual collaboration. But somebody ON THIS SIDE OF THE ATLANTIC knew SOMETHING was going to happen and decided to cash in on it, rather than warn authorities.

Which doesn't surprise me one bit.

Any organization can and will be infiltrated. Even loyal operatives sometimes have a change of heart and switch sides. Once an operation reaches a certain size it's not really secure. Knowing this they probably restricted information, "leaked" it selectively to try and figure out what levels of security were clear, and so on to maintain secrecy.

They would never have had to know it was LIHOP. If it was LIHOP, our operatives must have gone to great lengths to keep that fact a secret at LEAST until after 9/11.

The other possibility is that it was MIHOP. In that case Al CIAda would have known everything from the beginning.

Who really controls bin Laden? How did Bin Laden's dad really die? Who is really in control over there?

So little reliable information...

http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_ummat.htm

"Interview published in newspaper Ummat Karachi, 28th September, 2001

The Al-Qaidah group had nothing to do with the 11 September attacks on the USA, according to Usama bin Ladin in an interview with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat. Usama bin Ladin went on to suggest that Jews or US secret services were behind the attacks, and to express gratitude and support for Pakistan, urging Pakistan’s people to jihad against the West. The following is the text of an interview conducted by a "special correspondent", published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat on 28 September, place and date of interview not given.

UMMAT: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be? Usama bin Laden

USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act."

know they were going to be killed. They thought they were on a routine hijacking for extortion. They were duped and disposed of, like everyone else.

did you stop beating your wife?"

Why should one assume that those who carried out the 9/11 attacks had any particular knowledge of what ranking US officials knew about them and their plans?

On the other hand, U.S. counter-terrorism officials knew a great deal about the intentions of al-Qaeda in advance of the attack. There is substantial evidence that the CIA was well aware of the identities of the principal hijackers long before September 2001, knew with specificity about their plans to use hijacked aircraft in suicide attacks, and that the al-Qaeda cells were surveilled both abroad and inside the U.S. by multiple intelligence agencies for more than a year before the attack. In the case of one of the Flt. 77 hijackers, that surveillance went back to at least 1995. A related operation, the surveillance of Mr. Khan and his nuclear proliferation network, and of their global financiers, had been going on for decades.

The facts indicate that there was a strict compartmentalization of information about these operations, and that it was stovepiped. In other words, information went to the top, where command decisions are made. I will accept the explanation given to me, "The CIA doesn't roll-up any network up until it is ordered to do so." When, on multiple occasions in 2001, CIA Director Tenet offered the President the option to arrest the UBL cells known to be inside the US, George W. Bush ordered that no such action be taken.

The facts speak for themselves. Gross incompetence and criminal negligence are apparent in Bush's failure of command. There is no question that some 3,000 counts of negligent homicide occurred on 9/11. The subsequent cover-up entailed obstruction of justice and perjury by the President and his advisors. At the very least, the President should be impeached and put on trial with his top aides for these high crimes.

All of the known lies and omissions that cast the official 9/11 Commission version of events into doubt - and there are literally hundreds of significant deviations, contradictions and obfuscations --can be interpreted as proof that the White House was criminally negligent, and has tried to cover that up. Nothing, however, proves state of mind - any actual intent "to let it happen" as it did.

Until someone comes forward and confirms a LIHOP or MIHOP-type scenario through first-hand admission of involvement in a criminal conspiracy, or we see irrefutable evidence -- such as written documents or recordings of conversations -- one can not prove the element of intent by US officials to murder thousands of Americans.

Of course, al-Qaeda was compromised before the 9/11 occurred. To a great degree, the extraordinary secrecy of U.S. counter-terrorism and counter-intelligence operations facilitated the attacker's plans, and made it easier for them to navigate through the morass of US immigration, law enforcement, counter-intelligence, aviation security, and air defenses. But that's not proof of either LIHOP or MIHOP.

The fact that 9/11 occurred is, prima facie, proof of official crimes, but not those alleged by some.

Excellent summary of precisely the message I attempt to convey in every discussion I have about 9/11.

Peace.


BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00257.htm

Links to parts 1-3 at top of article.

Feel free to send me a message at my mailbox here at DU.

Thanks -

How do we know Al Qaeda isn't a wholly owned subsidiary of the US (or at least the CIA) in the first place?

Anyway, Al Qaeda is, was and always will be mostly patsies who get used by their US and Pakistani controllers. I don't think they minded if it was LIHOP-- why would they? They are simpletons who just want to damage America.

I doubt they even realized they were "compromised".