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Kondracke,Hume,Goldberg,Kristol call it for Kerry

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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 10:57 PM
Original message
Kondracke,Hume,Goldberg,Kristol call it for Kerry
Mort Kondracke: "... I think Kerry won this debate as he won the first debate I don't think... I thought that Kerry was much more aggressive and the president was basically on the defense and didn't have new arguments didn't have...wasn't as facile as he should have been."
Bill Kristol: "I guess I think if you think the President was doing okay and didn't need a win in this debate, he did fine, but I think, if one thinks that Bush missed an awful lot of opportunities to go after Kerry in the first debate he had to make some of them up in this debate, I'm not sure he really succeeded in doing so."

Brit Hume: "Is it now fair to say that in each of these debates in terms of marshaling arguments, and remembering them and presenting them that this is something John Kerry has proved he is very good at. And that it doesn't play to the president's strong suit."

Mort Kondracke: "I thought was very effective. I thought that he was also on the attack a lot and frankly I thought that the President seemed to be on the defense a lot and trying to explain things and not explaining them all that well."

Tim Russert: "John Kerry, also, energetic, forceful."

Jonah Goldberg: "On the question of whether Bush did everything he needed to tonight, I don't think so. I think he helped himself, but Kerry leaves these debates energized."

Mark Shields: "He just absolutely, I thought, demolished the President's claims about the coalition in Iraq."

James Fallows, Atlantic Monthly: "I think his best moment was at the series of new lines. Again like this Missouri line of saying that that I was able to do with some of my votes in the Senate what you have failed to do, which is balance the budget, so I think it was the general vividness of his approach."

Perry Bacon: "I actually was struck that Kerry was pretty strong, I thought, in the foreign policy section, actually, and sort of hit the president hard on that."

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. facile. shrub used that word tonight. made him sound french.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Caught that, too...
I really don't think Bush knew what he was saying, though.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Don't forget bush being too SENSITIVE...
not wanting to name his "appointee mistakes" for fear of "hurting their feelings".

And SHRILL! Man, was he shrill! :D
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nightperson Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. Screechy and shrill. I kept having to turn off the volume.
Edited on Sat Oct-09-04 12:45 AM by secondtermdenier
I mostly just read anyway, but I tried to watch tonight and had a really tough time. His voice really seemed like the proverbial nails on a chalkboard or whatever. Now I know what I've been missing. And have a headache. I was amazed that the election is at all close and that anyone can not be ashamed to be a Republican these days. Dude was unwatchable. How can anyone spin that?
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FearofFutility Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. Of course he didn't
pronounce it correctly.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well.. I'm just loving those guys right now.. great insight! n/t
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. I like Mort.....

He's more conservative than me, but he consistently uses common sense.
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dogtag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wow. I'm speechless. (n/t)
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MazeRat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. My thoughts exactly.... go figure (n/t)
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. damn liberal media!
Aren't they listening to Tweety?
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Carla in Ca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well, who would have placed bets on those responses...WOW!
n/t
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hey wow, they saw the same debate I saw!
Who woulda thunk it?
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think it's reverse psychology
IF they like Kerry - he must be bad. Or something. :silly:
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Bush: For the coporations and amazingly wealthy / Kerry: For you
I hope some of those crazy undecided voters had this drilled into their heads tonight.
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budkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hume called it for Kerry!?!?!?
I can't believe it!!! The tide has truly turned... :bounce:
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Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Once again, Tweety is out of step with the mainstream press
CNN & Fox called it for Kerry or even (mostly leaning Kerry) but MSNBC and Chris Matthews think * won?????
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Bush* could have taken a dump on stage and Matthews would
say he won. Matthews loves Bush*s bluster, since it reminds him so much of himself.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Yeah, you mean
Hume, the dork who can't give enough bj's to repugs went for Kerry?
Interesting.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. The shock collar must have run out of batteries
I'm sure Murdoch will have it replaced and he'll be good as new
tomorrow.
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. dont worry, theyll reverse themselves. Its the whore in them.
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hansolsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well tonight Fox was more "fair and balanced" than MS/NBC. N/T
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settembrini Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. Don't Forget
Barnes,
Even he chastised shrub for saying "internets."
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. Tomorrow's headlines:
Pigs Fly!

Hell Freezes Over!
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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
36. If these guys give it to Kerry
You know Kerry really won.
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Kusala Donating Member (864 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. facts vs. lies again
Kerry can pull up facts on demand. Bush pulls up talking points and lies on demand.
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ciaobox Donating Member (796 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. First results say Kerry win
Vote the crap out of this article:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&ncid=703&e=7&u=/afp/20041009/pl_afp/us_vote_debate_poll
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. O.K. This is a good pundit sampling. I feel geat now.
Edited on Fri Oct-08-04 11:22 PM by NewYorkerfromMass
These guys all have pretty good reads. I believe Kerry will now firm up support.
He will be polling solidly in the 47 to 48% range soon.
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nightperson Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-08-04 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. Some quotes from neoconservative Andrew Sullivan:
Edited on Fri Oct-08-04 11:46 PM by secondtermdenier
"He tended to look up at Kerry blinking fast, twitching a little, and occasionally smirking and even winking to friends in the audience. Not presidential...

Throwing around the old "liberal" label was hackneyed and seemed a substitute for argument. His distortion of Kerry's healthcare plan didn't flirt with being mendacious; it was an outright lie. His answer on the environment sounded okay but isn't going to convince anyone. That he has to concede the complete absence of WMDs in Iraq is inevitably brutal on him and his argument about the war. The facts are simply against him, and it shows. He had absolutely no answer on his spending spree. None. If you're a one-issue voter on fiscal responsiblity, Kerry is obviously your man; and this debate rammed that point home. And then there were some simply bizarre moments. Does anyone in America ever use the term "internets"? Plural? I've never heard anyone in my life use this formulation. The mandatory malapropism: Bush promised at one point that he'd be more "facile" in future. That's going to be a hard promise to keep. After four years of defending the homeland, the president should also not be giving soundbites like "I'm worried. I'm worried about our country." Hey, Mr president. Join the gang. And then ythere was the hilarious answer on the judicial appointments. Bush won't appoint anyone who still believes in the Dredd Scott decision. That's a relief. But, to be honest, it's the kind of question a high-school president might give, not the president of the United States. Bush's biggest failure was to detail Kerry's record, rather than just describing it as "liberal". "Show, not tell" is a good rule of thumb for effective criticism. And then there was the inevitable "mistakes" question. Bush didn't answer it - except to say he wish he hadn't hired Paul O'Neill. You'd think by now he'd have some kind of answer. But he seems to think he is incapable of error. That, in fact, is an obvious part of the problem...

Stylistically, Kerry seemed, well, calmer. When the camera cut to him during Bush's walkarounds, he was generally serene and respectful. His parries were cleaner than Bush's; his mind seemed more complicated - but not to the point of complete paralysis. Far from it. The contrast between a man who can make an argument and one who can simply assert what he believes to be a truth was striking. If we have learned anything these past three years, it is that conviction is not enough. Skepticism, openness to other arguments, thinking outside the box or against a bubble mentality: all these are useful in a war leader and Bush has none of them. In some ways, Kerry seemed more experienced than Bush, which, of course, he is."

From even before the debate:

"I'd say a clear and decisive Kerry win is now the likeliest outcome of this election. Bush's only hope is to tear Kerry apart. He can't defend his record. Every day, the news undermines it. He is losing this campaign in the final stretch. So he needs to attack. And when a Rove candidate needs to attack to survive, it's going to get ugly. Real, real ugly."

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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. thank you for this analysis. he makes a lot of sense (here at least!)
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despairing optimist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. After Friday night, "liberal" is well on the way to being respectable
again. Thanks, W. It may prove to be your greatest, most enduring, and only positive legacy.

W is the un-Reagan. It took a Repuke to reach that pinnacle. What Poppy Bush said of Saddam, he might have applied to his own son: "His credibility is zilch."

What remains is the coup de grace on Wednesday. I don't think this race is as close as the prostijournos and pundits think it is.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Can you believe
that with his record he would dare trot out that old "compassionate conservative" crap again? I mean, it has been used as a joke for at least the past two years. I think he just grabs desperately at familiar words. He has a bunch of 'em memorized, and simply reaches into his bag o' words and grabs whatever he finds.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
26. Hume: a left-handed compliment ??
I didn't hear what else Hume had to say because I never listen to anything he has to say ... based on the quote provided in the base post, it doesn't sound like he's saying "Kerry won." ...

it sounds like he's spouting the standard republican line that Kerry is a "better debater." ... he's acknowledging that Kerry has better "debate mechanics" without acknowleding that the CONTENT of Kerry's arguments were more persuasive ...
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
28. Aaron Brown was asking his guests about
Bush s strange overactive behavior...think he called it over-caffinated, & asked how it played.

He obviously thought it was strange.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
29. Gee, praise from neoconservative Kristol. Uh, great.
Is that supposed to make me feel good, or bad?

:crazy:
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. I think this is the moderate
to liberal Kristol, isn't it? There are two and one is neocon and the other is consistently on our side.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Er...if so, oops, my face is red!
NT!
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
33. What kind of mumbo jumbo was that from Kristol?
WTF was he talking about?

He was blathering as bad as his idol Bush.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. I think you think that I think that some people might think that we think
Yeah I was wondering the same thing.

:silly:
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