Anyone else here working to knock sense into Naderites?

I live in Wisconsin, so I HAVE to work my butt off to get people to vote Kerry. I've decided that I can be most effective by going to the U of WI in Madison and confronting Naderites.

I am disabled with epilepsy and Central Pain Syndrome so my energy and ability are limited. I can't talk much but I'm comfortable sitting with a sign and handing out leaflets.

I plan to use the issue of medical marijuana, which I know will resonate with the Naderians.

I just moved to WI from WA where I was legally authorized to use medical mj so I've got a huge stake in the issue. I've suffered through a police shutdown of the Seattle Green Cross med mj co-op. Had to scramble to buy it illegally.

I plan to set up some signs and hand out pamphlets on the UW campus hit Nader rallies. My signs will say things like "A Vote for Nader is a Vote to Send me to Jail" and I'll have a simple pamphlet outlining Bush's war on med mj patients and Kerry's support for us.

I emailed the head of Nader's campaign at UW telling him I was coming to Madison to campaign (not telling him I was campaigning for Kerry). He obligingly sent me a schedule of their events.

I want to put a face on the destruction Nader voter's may inflict on this nation and especially its weakest citizens. I want Nader voters to see my face behind bars as they mark their ballots.

Anyone else targetting these fools? I know almost no one else can use my specific tactic, but I'd like to hear what others are doing so I can rip off the best ideas.

I'll post daily reports of my experiences starting late next week.

I figure that if I am not exhausted to the point of collapse on election day I will have failed my sick friends, my daughter, and my nation.

for election reform so that one day a vote for a Nader-type candidate will actually mean something.

and other voting assurance reforms would be nice to hear from Kerry

than IRV. I want to be done with strategic voting, and that won't get rid of it.

for ranked choice voting. I believe that the Borda method is the one that most choose as the model. I think some "hardcore Naderites" would easily vote for Kerry if he would make a promise to do something about it.

it will be IRV, will essentially change very little for us.

and that "sense" that people are looking to knock into Naderites will be coming without any compromise whatsoever

for all involved.

Or do you enjoy biting your nails worrying about the tiny percentage of voters that non-Big Two party members pull in close elections?

No. But given the animus towards Nader and his supporters, somebody's worried.

and far more worried about the junta stealing another one.

If you are as your handle suggests...a Green Party Voter...aren't you making a compromise by voting for Kerry over Cobb?

It depends on who else is on the ticket and the situation at hand.

So yes, at times I compromise from the party's point of view in the sense that I vote outside of my registered party. But from my point of view it's just being sensible.

If this wasn't "the biggest election in human history" or if Kerry had a real mandate going, would you vote for Cobb this year?

then I might vote for him.

Polite request.

I'd like people to address my question and not be put off from reading this thread because of tangential issues.

that will change their vote?

I want them to look me in the eye and see someone whose life is going to be worse if Nader voters throw the election to Bush.

Maybe if Kerry would say something about it, you'd have something to persuade them with

From the Marijuana Policy Project voter's guide:

What Kerry has said: During a Kerry town hall meeting in Henniker on September 20, Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana (GSMM) asked Kerry, "Would you stop the raids, as president?" Kerry responded by saying simply, "Yes."

They gave him a grade of A-.

http://www.mpp.org/candidates/guide/kerry.html

They give Nader an A+ but that has no practical relevance to medical marijuana users.

Google "medical marijuana Kerry". He hasn't been silent.

and he's talked about it when forced to talk about it and he's given non-specific answers

My point was to use the fact that he supports MMJ to persuade people.

He's a 1% in the national polls. And those 1% are probably never going to be persuaded to vote for Kerry at this point.

The persuadable ones (e.g., Michael Moore, etc) are already on board the Kerry train.

--Peteer

I don't think it will matter. There will be more voters for Kerry than for *. The real issue is making sure the votes are counted correctly, if at all!

Wisconsin likely voters Oct 18
George W. Bush 47%
John Kerry 47%
Ralph Nader 2%
Undecided 5%

I have to do something and trying to pick off Nader voters seems like the best thing I can do. My energy is limited so I needed to find something I can do sitting down. I also think my personal story will resonate with Naderites.

Indeed, MN would not be a swing state if not for Nader.
Remember Nader got 5% in MN in 2000. This year he will get 1-2%. Kerry will win all three states, but it will be close. "Leaning Nader" are being contacted as they should be and asked to vote Kerry. Many will.

that is those who voted/supported Nader in 2000. If they still can't tell the difference between Bush and Kerry (or Gore) or recognize the stark danger that the Bushies represent then there is no hope for them and its not worth the time trying to talk to them.

Check out this site for useful handouts.
http://changein04.com/
http://changein04.com/mainContent/infoSheets.php





Many Nader leaning folks no doubt will vote Kerry in swing states.
But as with any GOTV effort, it is very important to ask them.
In MN, the Kerry campaign has progressive outreach specifically targeting leaning Nader and other progressives not yet on board.

I was hoping to get some encouragement and ideas and instead I'm being told I'm wasting my time.

I'm still going to do it. I can't think of any better thing for me to do.

I think it would take one stubborn Nader voter to look at someone in need of medical marijuana and continue to insist that their ideological purity was more important. Getting out there and confronting the Naderites could really make a difference in my view, if I knew any who hadn't already switched, I believe I'd do the same. Don't think Nader will be an issue here in Louisiana though, just the usual pig-headedness and vote fraud and now apparently David Vitter, the GOP candidate for senator, sending out cash dollars to GOP voters. Sigh.

I figure college students might be the most reachable. If I knock 1 vote into the Kerry column I'll feel great.

In Madison, I can't think of anything more useful. Go to all green events you can with green Defeat Bush Vote Kerry lit. Also, touch base with Kerry campaign to see if they have leaning Nader lists to phone call and door knock. I bet they do.

My energy is limited so I plan to do 2 or 3 hours a day sitting with my sign and leaflets.

Do you have any favorite leaflets you could point me to to download?

http://changein04.com/infoSheets/gfk2000Naderites.pdf

We, the undersigned, were selected by Ralph Nader to be members of his 113-person national "Nader 2000 Citizens Committee." This year, we urge support for Kerry/Edwards in all swing states, even while we strongly disagree with Kerry's policies on Iraq and other issues. For people seeking progressive social change in the United States, removing George W. Bush from office should be the top priority in the 2004 presidential election. Progressive votes for John Kerry in swing states may prove decisive in attaining this vital goal.

David Barsamian, Author, Radio Interviewer
Juliette Beck, California Citizens for Fair Trade
Herbert Bernstein, Professor of Physics at Hampshire College
Thomas Berry, Author, Dream of the Earth
Wendell Berry, Farmer and Writer
Norman Birnbaum, Author and Educator
Grace Lee Boggs, Detroit Activist and Writer
Blase Bonpane, Office of the Americas
Theresa Bonpane, Office of the Americas
Eric Brakken, Former Staffer, United Students Against Sweatshops
Ira Byock, Palliative Care Physician, Author of Dying Well
Edgar Cahn, Founder of Time Banking
John Cavanagh, Director of Institute for Policy Studies
Noam Chomsky, Author and Professor at MIT
Steve Cobble, Strategist, Jackson '88, Nader '00, Kucinich '04
Ben Cohen, Co-founder of Ben & Jerry's
Peter Coyote, Actor and Writer
Ronnie Cummins, Director of Organic Consumers Association
Herman Daly, Professor at University of Maryland
Iris DeMent, Musician/Songwriter
Phil Donahue, Former Talk Show Host
Mark Dowie, Journalist, Former Editor/Publisher of Mother Jones
Barbara Dudley, Former President, Greenpeace and National Lawyers Guild
Ronnie Dugger, Co-founder of Alliance for Democracy
Troy Duster, Professor at New York University
Barbara Ehrenreich, Political Essayist and Social Critic
Richard Falk, Center of International Studies, Princeton University
Jim Goodman, Organic Dairy Farmer
Rebecca Goodman, Organic Dairy Farmer
Doris (Granny D) Haddock, Senate Candidate, Reform Activist
Paul Hawken, Author, Economist
Randy Hayes, Founder, Rainforest Action Network and Director of Sustainability, City of Oakland
Jim Hightower, Author and Commentator
Wes Jackson, The Land Institute
David Kairys, Law Professor at Temple University and Author
Ynestra King, Ecofeminist Writer/Activist
John Kinsman, Family Farm Defenders
Philip M. Klasky, Co-director, Bay Area Nuclear Waste Coalition
David Korten, Author of When Corporations Rule the World
Frances Korten, Director of Positive Futures Network
Saul Landau, California State Polytechnic University
Rabbi Michael Lerner, The Tikkun Community
Theodore Lowi, Political Scientist, Author
Howard Lyman, Former Rancher, Vegetarian Activist
Joanna Macy, Author and Scholar
Jerry Mander, President of International Forum on Globalization
Manning Marable, Institute for Research in African American Studies, Columbia
Redwood Mary, Plight of the Redwoods Campaign
Robert McChesney, Professor, University of Illinois
Carolyn Merchant, Professor of Environmental History, University of California-Berkeley
Peter Montague, Environmental Research Foundation
Gus Newport, Former Mayor of Berkeley, California
Ruth Ozeki, Novelist
Frances Fox Piven, City University of New York
Bonnie Raitt, Guitarist/Singer/Songwriter
Sheldon Rampton, Co-author of Banana Republicans
Marcus Raskin, Author
Tim Robbins
Vicki Robin, New Road Map Foundation
Susan Sarandon, Actor and Activist
John Schaeffer, Founder of Real Goods Trading Company
Michelle Shocked, Musician
John Stauber, Co-author of Banana Republicans
Andrew Strauss, Professor at Widener University School of Law
Charlotte Talberth, Max and Anna Levinson Foundation
Meredith Tax, Writer and Human Rights Activist
Studs Terkel, Author, Oral Historian
Tom Tomorrow, Cartoonist
Sarah van Gelder, Editor of YES! Magazine
Eddie Vedder, Musician, Pearl Jam
Harvey Wasserman, Author of Harvey Wasserman's History of the US
Cornel West, Professor, Author of Democracy Matters
Sheldon Wolin, Professor Emeritus, Princeton University
Howard Zinn, Historian and Author

Other prominent Nader 2000 supporters endorsing this statement:
Medea Benjamin, Code Pink
Jackson Browne
Jerry Greenfield, Ben & Jerry's Co-founder
Bob Harris, Author
Thom Hartmann, Author and Radio Talk Show Host
Hazel Henderson, Economist and Author
Francis Moore Lappé, author
Norman Solomon, Columnist

I'll print that list to share with the students.

No need to knock sense, the complete collapse of the economy and the bankruptcy of her employer was enough for her to wash her hands of Nader. Better to get some of what you want (Kerry) than none of what you want by voting for some one who can't win.

GOod for you getting out there with your medical issues!

You'll need it. I don't think anyone still expressing support for Nader are potential Kerry voters. They still insist there's no difference between the Democratic and Republican parties, which makes them no longer part of the "reality-based community".

They won't vote for Kerry because "Kerry is the Man! We got to stick it to the Man, man!" And they would say the same anybody who'd made the necessary compromises to be a serious national Presidential candidate. They care more about reinforcing their own egos and sense of moral purity than they do about the fate of the country. Screw 'em.

of Ralph or a Green or Socialist or whatever other flavor of actual progressive might be on the ballot.

who will no doubt vote Kerry particularly if asked.
These people need to be contacted and asked to vote Kerry.
Certainly much more fruitfull than talking any further to undecided idiots who repeatedly profess ignorance to hapless volunteer callers.

There were Nader signs, buttons and bumperstickers everywhere in 2000. I have seen exactly two this year and both of those people were too scary-looking to approach. Based on my anecdotal analysis, it looks like Nader has lost at least 95% of his support.

I don't know any personally. I know they are out there. Polls show Nader at 2% in WI.

Nader even came to town a week ago - I don't know what the turnout was, but Edwards was also here last week and drew thousands and the students were very motivated - I overhead a lot of students just gushing with enthusiasm.

I think it may be more fruitful to convince those who don't like the chimp but rarely vote or care about politics to go the polls.
Naderites are simply too stubborn. I think you may be losing your time.

Good luck, I don't think you're wasting your time, and these folks need to see what their refusal to compromise can cost others. The Nadarits' political masturbation can have real costs to others.

So, the answer is, no.

For one, Nader is only polling about 1% nationally and 2% tops in some states. For two, historically, third party candidates only get a fraction of their polling numbers on election day. So if the polls say 2%, the vote will be 1% tops.

Most importantly, at this stage of the race, anyone still for Nader is in the same group as someone still for Bush: unreachable.

We need to focus our energies and attention on the voters we can make a difference on.

In my phone canvassing, I did talk with several folks who were identified as "leaning Nader". I found most either undecided or leaning Nader. By far the majority had already jumped the Nader ship. My talking points with them were two: Bush's awful environmental record and the possibility of 4 Bush Supreme Court appointments for a 20 year Bush Court. I figured if THAT doesn't make a Naderite pause, nothing will!

Seriously, folks, we are reaching the stage of the campaign of GET OUT THE VOTE. Those who are leaning Kerry have already been identified by the canvassing. Now we need to focus not on converting anyone but on getting those who already favor Kerry to the polls.

You could spend all day talking with Naderites, use all the logic at your disposal. You would be dealing with some pretty closed minds. Maybe you could get a couple of them to reconsider....but then would they really vote, or just sit things out? On the other hand, if you used the same time reminding Kerry leaners to vote, you could probably get 10 additional Kerry voters as a result of your time. And you won't get nearly as red in the face or frustrated! Use your time wisely. Pearls/swine....

it is a lost cause. My cousin, a very opinionated, intelligent, super-confident lefty said to me about a year ago, "Nancy, you were right. I should have voted for Gore" That was a huge admission for him. Anyone (former Nader supporter from 2000) who has not been persuaded by the last 3 1/2 years that there really IS a difference between parties and GW Bush is a threat to civilizaton, is beyond reach. REALLY. You cannot squeeze water from a stone (bad analogy but you know what I mean).

I wish you luck in trying to make a difference but the people you are dealing with are either far out of touch with reality, simply do not care, or have disordered thinking and cannot help themselves.

Help them see that Kerry embodies the ideals they like in Nader.

Nixon's administration specifically saw him as a Nader-like force: Colson (Nixon's Counsel), in a secret memo, revealed he had a mission to target Kerry: "Destroy the young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader."

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml

Make sure they know he helped organize the first earth day - my sister (a former Naderite) didn't know that, and was impressed by it. Also, she didn't know Teresa had marched against Apartheid, that was a big plus to her. CDs are cheap to make, you could hand out Kerry's winter soldier testimony on audio CD's for them to listen to.