If Bush Were To Somehow Win This Thing Legit, Who Would You Blame ???

Disclaimer: I STILL believe Kerry will win in a landslide. I also think we will take back the Senate. That said...

I belong to the school of thought that's based on the saying, "With Democracy, you get the government you deserve."

Not sure who said that, and it sounds like sort of a curse, but there it is. And although I don't think that anybody individually deserves another 4 years of this atrocious bullshit, and the rest of the world, and the planet itself certainly do not...

I will hold the American People responsible if GW gets elected to a second term in any way that looks legitimate.

If the majority of us are that profoundly ignorant, and that easily swayed, this will be an appropriate end to our experiment.

:nuke::evilfrown::nuke:

P.S. - I realize that one wouldn't normally 'blame' someone for winning, but in this instance, I'll make an exception.

P.S.S. - Had a lousy day... can ya tell?

:evilgrin:

:evilgrin:

If DNC can't figure out how to beat the worst President in American history, then I have to question the necessity of the Democratic Party.

Thus goes the Republic.

n/t

And the fearful people willing to give terrorists easy wins by giving up freedom over one terrorist attack.

Should have gone with Dean.

Shoulda gone with Clark.

Dean's fine, but Clark could walk through the red states and turn them blue.

Should have gone with Clark.

Speculation on this at this moment doesn't help much.

Allowing lie after lie to be reported and left unsubstantiated.

sometimes the media fabricate the lies themselves.

Clinton played on the same field and was undefeated. And we all knew what the media environment was before this election season started.

When Bush blames the Iraq problems on the insurgents, we say he should have known that's what it was going to be like. No excuses. If we hold Bush to that standard in Iraq, then we have to hold ourselves to that standard at home. We knew about Wolf Blitzer since the first Gulf War. We knew all about Fox. And all the rest of the right-wing plants in the media.

We saw what they did to Howard Dean - with the help of some of the people in our own party. We saw how they ignored Wes Clark. Where's the surprise here? We knew about them all along.

We can't blame the media if we lose this one.

That is the crux of the problem, the GOP chose to support these PNAC goons and the media went right along with plan.

We have party leaders who are afraid to say Fox News is bullshit. WTF? They are horrible, and we have to either take them on or quit complaining. Its not like they pulled a trick on us or something.

Not on Dem leader will SAY "PNAC" on camera. What the heck is that about? I think Kerry is going to win by a few points. If he doesn't, its time to rethink how we fight these devils, instead of crying about how they fight us.

the media takeover was not as complete when he ran as it is now.... With M. Powell at the FCC , the republicans have been allowed to takeover and do away with the fairness doctorine in media..... don't blame Dems they are not to blame in this... it is as usual the Gangsters in the Rupublican party and the Bush Crime Family........

I don't blame them for causing the problem. I blame them for ignoring it and letting it fester for years. They still treat Fox like its a legit network. That helps the other side!

especially with the proliferation of 24-hour news on cable. To fill up all that time cheaply (i.e., without having to do any investigative reporting or in-depth journalism) cable news - I'm using the term loosely - relies on the quick insta-happy-headline. When most of the country knows more about Britney's marriage foibles than about the administration's foreign policy it's not easy for them to make an informed decision.

Yes, there are other sources, if people have the time, inclination and ability to seek them out. But there's still an awful lot of propaganda to overcome first.


PS: Why does this spellchecker know the spelling of Ms Spear's first name?

We have encouraged them by not opposing them openly.

"quick insta-happy-headline" - that's a helluva line. I have to use that one!

and the stupid blind fucks who don't realize they're the equivalent of a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders or a Jew voting for Hitler.

The American people for the most part think that what they see on TV and what their president tells them (even if he is a stupid retard with a wet brain) is the sterling truth.... BUT WE ARE LUCKY BECAUSE SOMEHOW WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO AVOID THE KOOL-AID.... I really don't think the people are blameless because they HAVE unfortunately been exposed to a great many CLUES.... No WMD, no link Saddam to AlQuada, No Jobs, a disappearing treasury, evil mean legislation favoring only rich people and well connected Corporations.... No healthcare that families can afford... no flu shots... Gas at $2.69 per gallon(hawaii)... education going to h%&(*.....But maybe they missed the clues... BUT I AM SURE THAT THEY DIDN'T SEE ANY CLUES ON TV NEWS... and that is the news most have time for while they are trying to afford BUSH'S AMERIKA........

It makes what I've learned that past 4 years even sweeter. I was definitely a flag waiving moron after 911. I was also employed by Worldcom making 6 figures and with my the bulk of my investments in company stock. You know how THAT story ends, right?

Today, a couple of years down the line, I am one of the underemployed (although very grateful for what I have today) single, female, uninsured. I give an accidental stumbling upon www.whatreallyhappened.com the credit for opening my eyes to a much broader vision.


Honestly, it wasn't until I began to use the internets for my news, that I began to have questions, do the research and see the light. And I KNOW how lazy I am. Sadly, Many Americans don't make the effort.

and real self-awareness to admit all that. I commend you!!!

When we stop thinking, we stop living. I think you have a lot of life in you yet!

Thank heaven for them internets!

It will not only legitimize what they have done, but also give them a 'mandate' to continue to do even more of the same shit they have been doing. It will be a "Full Steam Ahead" mandate, whereas Kerry will get a "Change directions" mandate if he wins.

Therefore, yes, the American people truly will be responsible for what has been done.

For term one, we can claim the "asterisk" rule, that he wasn't legitimately elected, that we didn't know who Bush really was in '00, etc. The world has given "the People" a pass for Bush's first term. It is the crazy, radical government, not the people, that has terrorized the world. But that won't apply to a second term. If we, having lived through and seen what Bush has done, still vote for him and elect him outright, endorse his policies, and legitimize his actions, then we will lose that important distinction.

Things will get a LOT worse for us if that happens. There will be no sympathy left. And the view will be that we deserve whatever we get. No more 9/11 unity and outpouring. Just a "serves you right, you dumbass American" sentiment. And the muslim world really WILL go crazy on our ass, as the already-thin distinction between the U.S. and Israel fades into non-existence in the Arab perspective.

If Kerry wins, they will think "okay, now we can go back to the way we were with America because Americans were smart enough to get rid of Bush". Of course, they will still look at us a little more skeptically than before. We cannot erase the past. But we can mitigate the damage and try to right our wrongs. To do so would go far to restore our standing in the world.

Hell... even if one decided to leave the country, who would have us?

Professor 2

Assholes

thats who I would blame, because of all the things I thought of doing (dirty, illicit, unethical, and damn effective things) but didn't do for high minded reasons that will seem less important in time.

If Bush wins, I blame ME.

Could have done more, could have done it differently, more effectively...

I would not take myself out of the blame, if this were to happen.

:shrug:

Since 1900, 9 of 10 presidential incumbents have won (Carter in 1980) if their party has been in power only one term. That is what we're trying to overcome. There is a natural benefit of a doubt toward the incumbent. Gore would be much more a victim of throw-the-bum-out, unless the economy and the nation were in top shape, because Dems would have served 3 straight terms.

Still, Kerry would be in much better shape if swing voters had a warmer impression and more confidence in him. That is part media but mostly Kerry, IMO. He really needs some positive media spots over the final week, not more fruitless bashing of Bush over stuff like missing weapons.

It saddens me, nonetheless, that it's a god damned beauty pageant in this country. It's our sound byte nation. What a crying shame.

didn't you see that article about how out of touch with reality the right wing voters have become?? 76% think we FOUND WMD's!!! 68% think Saddam did 9-11!!!!!

This is the outrage, that the right-wing media is never held accountable for the misinformation they spew daily. They lie and spin and it RUINS our elections when we allow uneducated, ignorant, mis-informed people to vote.

Win or lose in this election, it's either the right-wing media OR the democratic party, you can take your pick, but both will not be around in 10 years, mark my words.

The media has the sheeple under their thumb.

But the American people are just as willing to be led.

idiocy.

I'd shoot myself and end the agony...

will it hurt? Not that I think it will but I just want
to see what you guys's think and everything. I am against vaults
falling out of the sky and hitting me on my head. Thanks. Bye. Don't
flame me.

He would have crapped himself before the Battle Of Gettysburg...


Threads like this is why Freepers think we are girlymen...


on edit- I refuse to consider losing....


Go ahead and flame me too....


What a demoralizing topic...

Rah, rah, rah, hold your breath til Nov. 2nd forum.

You don't put your pom poms down long enough to consider unsettling questions?

Or is this another case of 'what will others think it they see this'???

:shrug:

Get a grip!

:wtf:

nt

Willy, only two people in this whole thread felt this way.
That should encourage you. Plus, you did say you had a lousy day.

A-Schwarzenegger (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-27-04 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #52

53. Amen.


Willy, only two people in this whole thread felt this way.
That should encourage you. Plus, you did say you had a lousy day.



I am discouraged that only two people felt this way...

Do you think Muhammad Ali was sitting in his dressing room crying before his fight with George Foreman. The same George Foreman who had destroyed Ken Norton and Joe Frazier, two men who had outpointed Ali...

Do you think Arnold was sitting in his dressing room crying before he won his Mr. Olympia contest?

No, he was too busy psyching out his opponents as anybody who has watched Pumping Iron knows..

Do you think young Lt. Kerrey was crying before he had to command his swift boat down the Mekong Delta?

Hell no...

Never, never, never surrender...

I didnt say *I* was encouraged, I said Willy should be.
I am with you. I cannot see any benefit from such effete
intellectual exercises as this cutie-patootie thread.

The fact that this thread has grown to such proportions is indicative of our problem...


Do you think Ike was sitting in his office wringing his hands before D-Day...

We fail to teach CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS. If we had a truly educated populace, none of this current disaster would have happened in the first place. American children are raised from Day One to be good little consumers. We're a nation of Homer Simpsons who drool "ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!" every time the salesman asks, "How much would you pay for this shiny knick-knack?" We squander our resources and our innovation on electric thimble warmers and talking condiment dispensers.

Creating a vessel that is receptive to new information, and understands how to process that new information, starts early. We simply have to pay more attention to the values we're passing on, and no, I don't mean "Family Values" or nationalism or flag worship, etc. There is something deeply wrong with our culture, with the way we as a people perceive the world and ourselves (as a nation and as individuals). Meanwhile, our public schools are bleeding to death and Head Start is practically non-existent. Our priorities are shameful.

May I add: I'm trying to raise my 5-year-old son to be a progressive, sure, but I want him to come to it through thinking about it on his own, not because his parents force-fed it to him. What good would it be otherwise?

How many people were (and still are) blaming Gore for losing?

we get what we want ... collectively ....what we, collectively, are willing to get.

if * is elected, we the people, deserve exactly what we get.

if * is Selcted (again), then, we the people, will rise up.

darwin was right

Absolutely the WORST convention ever. Could you in your wildest dreams ever have imagined a convention where the opposing candidate is hardly mentioned, much less criticized? Delegates should have demanded a refund.

BTW, the R's had the WORST convention speech ever. It was the not-so-cute-nor-clever Bush twin blather.

...which was MARGINALIZE BUSH. THEY wanted to frame the debate--not leave it to him to decide the talking points.

I thought the convention was great. It introduced Kerry to the nation, and it introduced the concept of HOPE instead of fear. That message is sinking in now. Yes, we DO have a CHOICE!

They put this incompetent asshole in power. They have also ruled that the media is not obligated to tell the truth. They have First Ammendment protection and should therefore be held responsible. The old civics lesson of rights and responsibilities.

The media support leading up to and during the war which so far has killed 1100+ Americans has to be more than equivalent to shouting fire in a crowded theater.

Many * supporters are born stupid. The media chooses to be biased.

to slaughter.
The media is the sheep herder, gathering the flock to ready them for the kill.

WTF kind of question is this?

So, you'd better make sure it doesn't happen.

Now is not the time to start bashing our side - let's focus on taking down Bush for the next few days!

It's not just the media, but the corporations that have swallowed the media. News that helps sell drugs for the big pharmaceutical companies or news that helps sell tickets to "blockbuster" movies has dumbed us down, distracted us by waving shiny objects in front of us, and done a great disservice to our nation in the process.

More and more, people are becoming enslaved to these same corporations, working longer hours, increasing their debts and their shopping addictions while becoming more apathetic intellectually.

It is an in-tangled cycle.

I'm convinced those who are going to vote for * are not bothering to watch/listen to what is actually being said by the campaigns, but rather are listening to what the media and * are telling them Kerry is saying.....pisses me off!

If we elect this scumbag, we deserve him.

I don't see myself talking to her ever again if * wins. She is voting for him strictly because her church tells her too - It's all about running peoples lives and abortion is the tool they use. But it also includes anyone that doesn't think like them. Although I probably shouldn't use the word 'think' fundies gave up thinking when they signed up to be fundies. Life is easier when someone else runs it for you.

Isn't that the obvious answer?

In the end, every individual is responsible for their own decisions and actions in this. Saying the media did it is a ridiculous cop-out and it grossly underestimates the power of the human mind. We are not just helpless sponges that absorb and blindly trust propaganda and spin. There are many methods of research and information that do not depend upon corrupt media sources, as virtually every single member of this website can surely verify.

And to blame the American people in general is neither fair nor accurate. I'll take responsibility for my own vote and my own convictions, not those of others. I am fucking sick of being blamed for other Americans' failures and delusions.