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the populist Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 07:45 PM
Original message
What I Like and Dislike About Each Candidate
Candidates listed from favorite to least.

1. Gephardt
-pro - He is against unfair trade and has the record to prove it. I also find him very electable with his working class appeal. It would be difficult for Bush to distract the electorate with guns and God when you have someone so clearly putting the issue of worker's rights on the table.
-con - He supported the Iraq War and has not recanted. Maybe this will give him a shield for phony "good news" from Iraq come election time, but I don't like it.

2. Kucinich
-pro - I agree with him on every issue. Enough said.
-con - The factor of his lack of electability is a huge con. Though I am sure this man of great integrity would do well in a civilized country like France, the frantically anti-socialist and fanatically religious voters here would destroy him.

3. Kerry
-pro - He is very intelligent and his "You haven't answered the question, governor" attack on Dean was so well done that I would literally empty my wallet, and then some, to see him debate *.
-con - He might be unelectable due to his similarities to Dukakis because the right wing media portrays people from that culturally rich New England state as "liberal elites" (don't ask). And then there's how nothing in Kerry's agenda is particularly to my liking. He's pretty lukewarm in terms of issues.

4. Dean
-pro - He is fun to watch and gets me riled up against *.
-con - I don't trust him on the issue of trade policy, which is an important issue for me since many of my family members rely on the health of the proverbial "shrinking manufacturing sector." Dean also stutters too much, and, while he is likeable, does not seem cunning enough to completely eviscerate * in a debate.

5. Clark
-pro - He would cause *'s mythologizing of the military to turn back on *. He has been, I think, the only candidate to point the finger at the neoconservatives in the Pentagon though I think he backed down recently, replacing "neoconservatives" with "generals."
-con - His policy is the same as Clinton's. Enough said.

6. Edwards
-pro - Like Kerry, his education in law has served him well, making him another candidate who could humiliate * in a debate. He is also very good at facing tough questions (great job on Meet the Press).
-con - Like with Kerry, I can't connect with this guy on the issues.

7. Al Sharpton
-pro - He's pro-fair trade, anti-war, anti-Likud and quite a socialist.
-con - Sometimes he seems like an all-around scumbag like when he attacked Dean on affirmative action.

8. Carol Mosely Braun
-pro - She's anti-war.
-con - She's pro-free trade and has called Gephardt a protectionist. In addition, she has just dropped out and endorsed Dean to give him a boost over my candidate of choice Gephardt.

9. Lyndon Larouche
-pro - (this is difficult) He's anti-free trade and wants a revision of America's Middle Eastern policy. As an American of French descent I have an Anglophobia that his conspiracy theories appeal to.
-con - His conspiracy theories make little sense; he's an anti-semite; and he wants to be elected dictator for life.

10. Joseph Lieberman
-pro - NOOOOOONNNNNNNNNE! (I can't think of any, sorry).
-con - (Where do I begin?) He likes war, has voted with * on nearly everything, and has gotten a thumbs up from Sean Hannity.
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the populist Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Come on.
I know this a generic title, but I did it on purpose because a catchier title might violate the rules.
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leyton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree on many points.
Dean and Sharpton have begun to lose my respect for the same reasons.

"3. Kerry
-pro - He is very intelligent and his "You haven't answered the question, governor" attack on Dean was so well done that I would literally empty my wallet, and then some, to see him debate *. "

Ooh man... I wish I had seen this. I don't think many in the US would prefer Kerry's style (since Bush seems to have charmed so much of the electorate). But when I hear "politician," I think of Edwards or Gephardt; when I think of "statesman", I think of Kerry. He's the one who I'd expect to see on Mount Rushmore.
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the populist Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. He has an old-school, civilized, Bostonian appeal
that I miss.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. You have anglophobia lol
Hey I sorta do to, hehe, I am not French honest though, not completely Irish no.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. I agree about Gephardt
I think any ticket with strong serious economic issues based on people who work for a living will be easily electable. Gephardt can do that, and even though he's very socially liberal he doesn't scare away your grandfather. Kucinich is of course my dream candidate.

Outsourcing, offshoring, the unemployment rate, all the jobs going to Communist China and India are the major issue for most voters right now.
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the populist Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. That's because Gephardt
is a progressive disguising himself as a centrist, which is a much smarter move than Dean's being a centrist disguising himself as a progressive.

Those you mentioned should be the major issues. We need to have the Democratic Party be led by someone who takes a stand on these issues and not some panderer who changes his tune depending on what crowd he's speaking to.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Gep is pretty progressive I would agree
He got like 60% on my on the issues test which put him up pretty high.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thats true about Gephardt
He is a social liberal and my grandfather likes him, mostly for his union politics.
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the populist Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. My whole family loves him
Edited on Thu Jan-15-04 09:38 PM by the populist
even the few of those who voted for * in 2004 (don't ask).

Which goes back to my point: Gephardt is running with November in mind while Dean is trying to appeal to progressives now and he even admitted "I won't be talking like this in November."

edit: I said his (*) name. I repent for my sins.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. My dad likes him too
We were discussing him on the way home from work. I really agree with him and DK most on economic issues, and thats part of the reason why my grandfather and our family is so democratic, the new deal etc, I only wish he hadnt voted for the war. My family including my dad supports Kucinich, but my grandfather is for Dick, my grandmother for Kerry who I also like. Hes a good guy, Dick is, I just wish he hadnt voted for the war and didnt always attack Dean.
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the populist Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'm willing to overlook the war.
Don't get me wrong, I thought it was a loathsome act from the start; but I have to go with my priorities: the economic health and security of my family and my future descendants.

And, as I've stated, though I think Kucinich is the perfect candidate as far as I'm concerned; I am supporting Gephardt over him for pragamatic reasons.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Hey I gotcha
Gep is 3 on my list. I like him.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Re: Edwards
Do you know his position on the issues?
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the populist Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. No.
Not really. From what I've gleaned, he's a more populist version of Kerry who opposes gay marriage. That's all I know.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Check out his website
His positions are very detailed and are too extensive to list here. But I urge you to take a look - you may be surprised.

www.johnedwards2004.com
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Bush loves Jiang Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. Well...
Edited on Thu Jan-15-04 09:56 PM by Bush loves Jiang
1. Gephardt
-pro - He is against unfair trade and has the record to prove it. I also find him very electable with his working class appeal. It would be difficult for Bush to distract the electorate with guns and God when you have someone so clearly putting the issue of worker's rights on the table.
-con - He supported the Iraq War and has not recanted. Maybe this will give him a shield for phony "good news" from Iraq come election time, but I don't like it.

A bit extreme. Won't allow people with foreign cars in his campaign.

2. Kucinich
-pro - I agree with him on every issue. Enough said.
-con - The factor of his lack of electability is a huge con. Though I am sure this man of great integrity would do well in a civilized country like France, the frantically anti-socialist and fanatically religious voters here would destroy him.

You sure? He wins nearly half of the Republican vote in his home district.

3. Kerry
-pro - He is very intelligent and his "You haven't answered the question, governor" attack on Dean was so well done that I would literally empty my wallet, and then some, to see him debate *.
-con - He might be unelectable due to his similarities to Dukakis because the right wing media portrays people from that culturally rich New England state as "liberal elites" (don't ask). And then there's how nothing in Kerry's agenda is particularly to my liking. He's pretty lukewarm in terms of issues.

His work for gay rights over the years has been admirable, but he can't decide whether or not to be proud of his millitary record. His distate for Taiwan's democracy disgusts me.

4. Dean
-pro - He is fun to watch and gets me riled up against *.
-con - I don't trust him on the issue of trade policy, which is an important issue for me since many of my family members rely on the health of the proverbial "shrinking manufacturing sector." Dean also stutters too much, and, while he is likeable, does not seem cunning enough to completely eviscerate * in a debate.

Dean is far less liberal than he appears, but if his energy can fire up the base, and his more moderate beliefs can appeal to independents, Bush is going down.

5. Clark
-pro - He would cause *'s mythologizing of the military to turn back on *. He has been, I think, the only candidate to point the finger at the neoconservatives in the Pentagon though I think he backed down recently, replacing "neoconservatives" with "generals."
-con - His policy is the same as Clinton's. Enough said.

Domestically, he's more liberal than Clinton. Nonetheless, there are sketchy questions about his work in Kosovo, and he voted Republican until Clinton ran for office

6. Edwards
-pro - Like Kerry, his education in law has served him well, making him another candidate who could humiliate * in a debate. He is also very good at facing tough questions (great job on Meet the Press).
-con - Like with Kerry, I can't connect with this guy on the issues

His hawkishness is a bit alarming...And the GOP always loves to have a field day with trial lawyers.


7. Al Sharpton
-pro - He's pro-fair trade, anti-war, anti-Likud and quite a socialist.
-con - Sometimes he seems like an all-around scumbag like when he attacked Dean on affirmative action.

Sharpton's a fucking dick. He endorsed conservative Republican Al "Looney Tunes" D'Amato over a liberal Democrat whose name I don't remember. He also endorsed George Puketaki over both Mario Cuomo and Carl McCall, and organised an African American rally in support of Cuomo during the 2002 NY gubernatorial election. A high-ranking executive in his "church" played a very major role in Puketaki's campaign. Al Sharpton's only for Al Sharpton. He's about as trustworthy as Ray Nagin (New Orleans mayor who endorsed conservative Republican Bobby Jindal for LA governor) or Zell Miller (self-explanatory).

8. Carol Mosely Braun
-pro - She's anti-war.
-con - She's pro-free trade and has called Gephardt a protectionist. In addition, she has just dropped out and endorsed Dean to give him a boost over my candidate of choice Gephardt.

I know little about her. Supposedly, she was so corrupt that she handed her Senate Seat to Fitzgerald on a silver platter during the following election. Still, she doesn't seem too bad ideologically.

9. Lyndon Larouche
-pro - (this is difficult) He's anti-free trade and wants a revision of America's Middle Eastern policy. As an American of French descent I have an Anglophobia that his conspiracy theories appeal to.
-con - His conspiracy theories make little sense; he's an anti-semite; and he wants to be elected dictator for life.

Larouche is a Stalinist cult-leader who's only out for money. Seriously folks, Larouche is the only individual with a D next to his name who could give Bush 90%+ of the Democratic vote. (And I don't blame them, it's like comparing Chirac to Le Pen. Of course you vote for Chirac/Bush, even if you're a member of every single demographic group Bush has fucked over.) It can safely be said that humanity would be far better off if Larouche were to suffer a fatal accident in the near future.

10. Joseph Lieberman
-pro - NOOOOOONNNNNNNNNE! (I can't think of any, sorry).
-con - (Where do I begin?) He likes war, has voted with * on nearly everything, and has gotten a thumbs up from Sean Hannity.

Lieberman has taken Bush to task for his unprincipled stance against Taiwanese democracy. He's also pro-choice. I hate this man very much, but it's important to point out that he does have 1 or 2 good qualities.
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mbali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. You're right - they USUALLY have a field day with trial lawyers
but people who try to have a field day with Edwards usually only try one time. After he hands their chewed-up asses back to them (with a cheerful grin, no less), they think twice before messing with him again.

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askew Donating Member (162 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. Interesting topic.
I'll give this a try:

1. Dean - I like that he is a plain-spoken, fighter. I like his pragmatic approach to governing and willingness to think outside the box to solve problems. I love his strong position on choice, his dedication in balancing the budget and providing health care.

I don't like his stance on the death penalty.

2. Gephardt - His dedication to labor issues over the years has been really impressive. While I completely disagree with his stance on Iraq, I admire him for sticking to his guns on this position.

I don't find Gephardt to be a leader or a fighter. I don't think he has what it takes to lead this country.

3. Kerry - He is intelligent and articulate.

I hate Kerry's lack of conviction in his views. His waffling on Iraq makes me furious. Again, I don't think he has what it takes to lead this country.

4. Edwards - He is intelligent, articulate and has run a mostly positive campaign. I also like his populist message.

Edwards helped write the PATRIOT act and he is light on governing experience.

5. Clark - He has shown great dedication to his country by serving in the military. He is intelligent.

I think Clark is our weakest candidate and would most likely not vote for him, because he has never held public office and has no governing experience to prepare him for this job. And truthfully, I find him to be completely devoid of any charisma, which won't help in the general election.

6. Dennis Kucinich - He is a fighter and has deep conviction in his views, which I do admire and I think we need someone like that in Congress. Also, his popularity with the grassroots is really impressive.

I find Dennis' plan on Iraq and NAFTA to be unrealistic. And I worry about his ability to compromise on his views. I don't want to replace one President who governs by idelogy with another.

7. Al Sharpton - I think he is energizing his supporters to get involved in our party and politics in general.

I think Al is a race baiter and he doesn't have enough governing experience to be President in my opinion.

8. Joe Lieberman - He has absolute conviction in his views.

Unfortunately, I disagree with most of his views.

9. Carol Mosley-Braun - She brought real class to the primary. She is smart and very articulate. And I am really glad that she is endorsing Dean, as she was my second choice.

Unfortunately, her campaign never caught on.
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