Brokaw says Bush IQ higher than Kerry's...

according to their military qualification exams. Do you believe that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/24/politics/campaign/24points.html

That just doesn't seem feasible to me.

I'm watching a repeat Hardball now and Matthews is interviewing Brokaw. A long time ago I used to like Brokaw but I think he's gone over to the dark side.

If Brokaw had enough brains to judge intelligence - which very clearly he doesn't - he wouldn't be pandering to show himself a part of the "Worst Generation."

I was tested at 130...


She was a bookkeeper...


I did post grad work in Poli Sci...

She grew up during the Depression and had to find a job after high school...

I had help going to college and beyond...

I Q is a floor not a ceiling....

I remember reading a post here a long time ago that extrapolated *'s IQ based upon a number of factors and found it to be around NINETY!

Kerry probably has me beat by at least five points and I've scored consistently between 136 - 141 on every intelligence test I've taken in the last 25 years.

Well, this helped cheer me up after the Michael Moore article. What a hoot! :D

it. Ha! :thumbsdown:

but his habits of willful ignorance and laziness have completely squandered whatever natural gifts he may have started with. Conniving is not intelligence. Manipulation is not mastery.

his Maine relatives )whom I know) told me this.

I asked again today about it and they confirmed he's a Bushie (Walker) cousin.

That figures. Brokaw was speaking in such glowing terms about Chimpy I thought I was watching an RNC commercial.

that's a little different. He said that somebody (?) analyzed military tests and found that bush's IQ was 4 points higher (or something like that).

Kerry handled it perfectly. He said, "maybe. more power to him." and then they talked about how people underestimate bush. Kerry said that he was glad he didn't underestimate him and prepared well enough to beat him in the debates, or something like that.

It wasn't a bad question because it gave Kerry the opportunity to give a nice answer.

media whore of the worst kind. This is a classic Rovian move. Just say something, allege something, infer something and let the media whores do the rest. There is no way in hell the John Kerry's IQ is lower than George Bush's. The people who put that out were Republicans (life the Swift Boaters) just making up stuf.

he gave a name of the person claiming this -- it's me who doesn't remember.

Again, this wasn't a bad question. First, because it was easy and Kerry hit it out of the park. Second, it just reminded people that bush is dumb. Second, whether Brokaw meant it to or not, it just reminded people about bush's stupidity.

"Brokaw didn't say it. He quoted somebody else as saying it."

The whole point was that he was repeating something that somebody else said without much support to prove it.

Why did Brokaw bring this up? I thought it was totally bogus and designed to embarrass Kerry.

That makes Brokaw a prick in my eyes.

bush's intelligence is an issue. Brokaw could have asked, "do you think you are smarter than bush?" but that would have been a much more obnoxious question, I think.

(and, not that it matters, but you said that Brokaw said bush's IQ was higher than Kerry's. He did not.)

When I said "Brokaw said Bushes IQ was higher" I meant that he was "repeating" this so-called story written by a right-winger who obviously wanted to create the impression that King George was smarter than John Kerry.

I don't think the question was appropriate and I don't think the way he phrased it made it any less palatable. It was brought up, IMHO, to make Kerry uncomfortable. I thought it was mean and showed Brokaw to be the ass that he is.

because Kerry wasn't at all uncomfortable and it just reminded people that bush ACTS like his IQ is in double digits even if it isn't.

Kerry did a great job with that question.

know how any one knew what his was since it wasn't public knowledge.

he didn't really write the "Greatest Generation" book all by himself. Too bad he hasn't a clue how dumb some of his question are.

"On the other hand, Simonton didn't see much evidence that Bush tries hard to use the brains he's got. "He has very little intellectual energy or curiosity, relatively few interests, and a dearth of bona fide aesthetic or cultural tastes." Simonton speculated that this could suggest a low level of "openness to experience."

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040114-074349-3947r

to take the IQ test for him.

There is absolutely no way chimpy has an IQ above the double digits.

The ASVAB is a test of skills and knowledge, not intelligence. There's no way to measure intelligence (how one processes information) on a skills, and knowledge test. Only an IQ test can do that, which the military doesn't administer. The ASVAB is like an SAT, only on a lower grade level.

Bush's other military records have been doctored, vvetted, black-lined, so why not his entrance exam as well?

Kerry's Daddy didn't have cronies in the Pentagon to see to it that John looks smart. It's obvious he is.

If his IQ is higher than Kerry's then it's an untapped source.

cocaine and alcohol abuse not to mention several incidents of banging
his head after "choking" on "pretzels"

Me, for instance. When I heard it tonight coming out of Brokaw's mouth it was news to me. I try to keep up on everything but sometimes things just whisk right on by, 'k?

and spreading this bullshit. at least he's leaving after November. the fucker...

:hi:

Cheers! :hi:

disbelief. No way is B* more intellignet than Kerry. I saw this interview last night and didn't believe it. No way. But then, after Kerry made a very gracious response to the IQ remark, as is his style, Kerry said he liked B*....THAT is what I remembered, because I despise B* so much.

I'm not saying it couldn't be accurate for that time, but there's been a lot of alcohol and cocaine and bush-only-knows what else impeding on bush's brain since then. Add in the religious fundamentalism, or the question of whether bush actually applies himself to any aspect of government other than campaigning, and the raw IQ score from 30 years back means even less.

Basically, this is useless information: a so-called expert derives something as abstract as an IQ comparison from different tests (not even actual IQ tests) taken over three decades ago? So what? We all saw who the smart one is during the debates.

I don't trust his supposed scores on ANYthing.

Obviously not since Bush stuffed his flight suit outfit...

Why on earth does that even matter now ... Who really cares at this point... Are they now just trying to preserve the chimps "legacy" with defeat imminent?

Pathetic ....

question was. I liked Kerry's answer, though -- not rebuking that ignorant statement showed a lot of self-assurance & class.

In what passes for journalism these days, the New York Times' John Tierney recycles tripe from a far rightwing website without displaying any skepticism whatsoever.
............
How did Tierney locate the authoritative and unbiased "I.Q. Expert," Linda Gottfredson? From Sailer's web column, of course. And it's not the first time Sailer has quoted Gottfredson on the question of Bush's I.Q. I'm sure Tierney meant to mention those facts in his article, but just forgot.

He also forgot to note that Sailer's an apologist for the Pioneer Fund*, and that Gottfredson has been a recipient of Pioneer Fund largesse. I won't bother going into the Pioneer Fund or its purposes in more detail, since the only purporse of this post is criticize the Times for publishing a dubious wingnut claim as fact, without seriously challenging the premise of the claim through the opinion of a disinterested expert. But Mr. Tierney (or his editors) might want to consider his sources.

The liberal New York Times has sunk to the level of Kausfiles.

* No link provided; Google: Sailer Gottfredson Pioneer Fund to confirm.

http://rogerailes.blogspot.com/2004_10_24_rogerailes_archive.html#109863832478011906

and killed many many braincells through drugs and alchohol.

I've known what I call "smart" stupid people. One turned out a sociopath.

I've known what I call "smart" stupid people. One turned out a sociopath.

That would be before the booze and the coke and religious fundamentalism.

.

Bush scored in the bottom 25% of all the applicants for the Air Force Officers acceptance exam. BOTTOM TWENTY FIVE PERCENT.

He barely qualified at all.

The ASVAB is not an IQ test, and can't be compared to one. It's not designed to measure IQ, just basic aptitudes. It's given to high school students. I scored in the top 1% on the ASVAB after missing most of the mechanical related questions, and I'm not Albert Einstein.

Bush was a C student all through college. At those Ivy league schools, if your daddy pays the bills and you keep a seat warm, you get a passing grade. Yale is a buy-a-degree for rich kids that want to coast. Sure you have to work hard for the top grades, but if you don't give a rats ass (Bush) you can coast with no worries.

---

http://www.yaleherald.com/article.php?Article=3548

Over the last 25 years, Yale has graduated nearly 95 percent of its students. This statistic alone gives pause to many. "We quite honestly don't understand how your graduation rates are so high," said Sue Hosack, Director of Student Records at Washington University in St. Louis. Wash U., by comparison, sees just 89 percent of its students graduate.

What's more, the five percent of any Yale class that does not graduate includes not only students who flunk out but also transfer students and those who withdraw for personal or medical reasons. The upshot: The genuine "flunkee" is an endangered species at Yale, a true Blue statistical outlier. And since failing out is more often than not the direct result of accruing one too many F's, it stands to reason that failing grades are themselves quite exceptional. While Yale has not published grade distributions since 1981, and while information on the number of Yalies who actually fail a class is understandably kept private, anecdotal evidence suggests that F's are given quite rarely by professors these days.

and?

in his military aptitude test which if for not having powerful family connections would have prohibited from flight training.

I would not be surprised if some BushCo operative gave Brokaw a B/S IQ number for Bush and told him it was higher than Kerry's hoping to trap Kerry into saying what his IQ number is and use that in an attempt to paint him as vain.

In any event, Kerry handled the question very well and side-stepped any possible trap.

What test? AFOQT? I thought that was the test on which Bu$h scored the minimum for pilots. I thought that even that 25 (raw/percent?) score, which was the minimum for flight school, was speciously scored by a recruiter in New Haven. Help me with facts. Don't let GWB off yet another hook.

(On edit: I know I scored extremely high on the AFOQT. It shaped my very lucky military aviation career (legitimately). In fact -- in fact -- my very high AFOQT score predicted my #1 status in my flight school class and my subsequent high levels of aviation performance in the military, but also in a distinguished career as an airline captain (MD-80, Boeing 737-300), a corporate pilot (Learjet-55 and JetStar-II), and a 25 year careeer as a well known and very successfull aviation writer.)

The news tells me that if my IQ is X, Bu$h's is Y, and Kerry's is Z, then IQ Y> IQ X > IQ Z. In truth IQ Y is always lower than Z, and most of the time lower than X. Don't ever pass this on to Bu$h or any of his operatives: 1: they don't understand,; 2. they are all alchoholics and just twitchin' for a drinky-poo at a very private (get my drift) club by this time of night.

Oh, I'm wrong. It just occurred to me. I flew 250 missions in Vietnam in 70-71 (Ho Chi Mihn Trail at night, many). Kerry went up-river into the mouth of the cat of death. We are the dumb-dumbs. White boys in Vietnam. We did not have to do it. What business did Kerry and I have sticking our lilly white noses in a war designed for Negroes (using the term of the time)? Tom Delay's equation would have Kerry and me taking highly desirable Vietnam assignments from so damn many -- perhaps uncountable -- that had a burning desire to go, especially Negroes who seemed to absolutely love the climate and high-risk-for-death situation in Vietnam.

What business did either of us have coming back and questioning the administrations? What business did Kerry have forming the VVAW (Vietnam Veterans Against the War)? What business did I have, two years later (when I left active duty with an "Honorable Discharge"), joining such a subversive group?

Our business has been damned to hell by our critics (Swift Boaters, et. al.), but truth and history backs us up. I'll stick with truth and history any time. GOP truth and history is almost always ... revisionist.

EOM

It never ceases to amze me that a great many Americans still don't understand the nature of that war or why veterans would come back and protest its continuation.

Period. Line up your questions. Like a saw mill with logs, I'll take only so many. The mill has a dam for a reason. Saw mill operators, like my grandfather, always have a missing limb. On that note, flail away ...

Brokaw brought it up! There is no way it's true, unless B* IQ test was the standard, and Kerry's is the new?

Kerry's IQ I would guess to be 150-160
B* 90 something sounds about right

maybe his backpack was working better when he took the IQ tests cause he really sounded like a fuckhead during the debates

You can extrapolate a bit but they do not measure the same thing. Second, because achievement tests measure knowledge, a person can improve his/her score on an achievement test by preparing- for example, think about the GRE or SAT or something like that. Practicing can help a person improve their score substantially. Practice helps people learn the different content aspects of the test as well as techniques for test taking. The same cannot be done for an intelligence test. The scores of intelligence tests should be relatively stable over time since we view intelligence as relatively stable.

Bush clearly does not know shit from shinola whereas Kerry seems quite a bit more knowledgeable about economics, social programs, war, diplomacy, etc. Who is smarter? If Bush has more intelligence than Kerry, he hasn't done much with it.

I was watching him and Tweety for quite some time earlier and was astounded at what a shill Brokaw has become. He obviously is campaigning for *. Another journalist to cross off my list.

Clearly Bush is an imbecile - we need ancient exams to determine who has done what? This is rediculous!

I do this for a living (Psychological examiner)and could write a book on the fallacies in this article.

George Bush has a real history of honesty in his educational and career endeavors. A falsified SAT test means little to someone with the means (sorry for the psychometric pun).

"George Bush has a real history of honesty in his educational and career endeavors."

Could you explain, please?

Bush got 25th percentile on the pilot aptitude portion of the test, which is most similar to an IQ test, and 95th percentile on the "officer quality" portion, which is more cultural. The report compared his overall score, ignoring that he only did well on the postions that weren't correlated with IQ.

Yes, Bush is dumb, by the standards of a national leader. I think this is one of the facts that formed his personality: he has constantly been thrust into situations where he is the least qualified person in a room, but thanks to his connections, the others can't ignore him. Hence his disdain for intellect and his don't-question-me leadership style.

I don't think they are necessary. Bush is very transparent

Every Psychologist I have spoken to in the last four years who mentions Bush has a diagnosis. He is a walking talking case study.

He cheated his way into the ANG to avoid going to vietnam,

bend-over-backwards-to-not-look-liberal moments. The moment I read the article I suspected it wasn't scientifically sound. Their management just doesn't get it: they're never going to pull a substantial number of right winger into their readership because of their previous reputation as "The Liberal Paper" of America, no matter how many factually challenged articles or snarky, not-so-subtle swipes at Democratic politicians they allow.

:wtf:

channel surfing. WTF? is right. Proof Brokaw is an idiot choosing this crap.

BEST was Kerry's response..oh, well good for him--the jist of it!
Not batting an eyelid.

Bush's IQ = I'm Qurious. I'm curious just how far I get the stupideter monkeys than I, that can follow me into nuclear hell.

that to Bush...

and I really don't think I'm smarter than him . . .

now Bush, on the other hand . . . :)

Bush snorted 156 micorgrams of cocaine per day to feed his head. Geesh how these things get started.

higher iq. no evidence but the miltary exam. and on that and what bush sat score was they assumed bush must then have a higher iq. they didnt have kerry's sat scores. the military exam wasnt an iq test.

and on this bet of made up story telling brokaw reports this to the people. pure silliness.